refusenik speaks in Sligo

Thursday April 10, 2003 23:08

by ollie - katalyzer

Ramy Kaplan for Israeli prime minister!

I'm trembling. I've just come from hearing Ramy Kaplan speak in Sligo IT. He's one of the 'courage to refuse' Israeli army soldiers (refusenicks)who are refusing to serve in the Occupied Territories.

Unfortunately, he only spoke here and in London on this speaking tour. He is one brave guy. I mean, the Israeli secret service have kidnapped people thousands of miles from Israel. One guy was kidnapped recently in Scotland and is now, to the best of my knowledge, in his 13th month of solitary confinement in an Israeli prison. If ever there was an army who 'fight the war on all fronts' its that one.

Ramy was so calm and softly spoken, yet to be doing what he's doing left me mesmorized and tearful and completely speachless.

The good news is that there are now 530 refusnicks in Israel, but the bad news is that peace seems further away than ever, asccording to Ramy. When they published their letter feb/march last year, outlining why they wouldn't serve in the occupied territories, Sharon's support dropped to 30% ,and they really were making progress. But not now, alas.

When he started to refuse, they treatened to promote him - a supra Machiavellian act! To promote him and put him in the place of his superiours would 'teach him' , as it were, it would put the blood onto his hands. But then the "Courage for Peace" movement started to emerge, and he joined up

Ramy was quite high up in the army when he decided 'enough was enough' - he had 100 men underneath him, and was jailed for refusing to allow his men to cut down orchards and olivegroves in Gaza. This act would have destroyed livelihoods and at least some food for many families, so his act really was a small and humble stand against the infliction of yet more suffering.

He mentioned ,and this is a sign of how bad things are now in Israel, that young Jews of Polish descent are trying to claim Polish citizenship. After all that happened to them, especially in Poland, where millions of them were wiped out during WW2. They think the whole world was against them, and are willing to do that to avoid having the Israeli passport.

I have to say that I detected a bit of hostility towards him, because of his Army backround ,which struck me as insane. I mean, the real world is the world where people see where they are and do sth about it. It is not the world of Caricature cardboard cut-out bad guys vs good guys.

One incredible moment was when an Iranian man, surnamed, of all things this week, Hussein, stood up and dialogued in an empatheic and genuine manner with one of the bravest men in Israel. And they agreed on so much; it stood out as a startling moment of unity and clarity in an extremely divergent world.

That's it. I'm not trembling now, but typing is still a lot easier than speaking.

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Comments (5 of 5)

irony is dead. long live irony.

Fri Apr 11, 2003 13:39

Irony in these instances, and on this site is only ever a possibility....and anti-refusenik spam and/or data bombing is a reality. Not a paranoia, a reality. Part of the 'war on all fronts' ....

That said, if that second post was ironic then
...horray....bit hard to tell without vocal intonations and short postings on a newswire full of a complete lack of it, but still I don't think it was...unless it was you , Kokomero...;-)

Hello?

by kokomero

Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:25

Ollie did anybody ever explain the concept of irony to you?

LLLLLLLLoooooocccccccccooooooo.....

Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:22

Avi Clone - I'm not going to bother getting into a shouting match with a nutbag passing time in a lu la home, because this site isn't supposed to be about slagging matches, but - the above posting is news, so it _shouldn't_ be deleated. A member of 'courage to refuse' spoke in Ireland...that is ....news. Not opinion, not speculation, ....news. Indymedia is supposed to be about telling news stories, esp ones that don't get an airing otherwise. And, if you look at the bottom right hand corner of the screen, you will see the following: 'Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth'. I rest my case.

Yes, his talk effected me. I'm glad I'm still human enough to be moved by a brave and committed person.

Remember, this guy is an Israeli Jew. And I gave out about the fact that some people were hostile to him because of his army backround. How the hell does that make me, or the posting ,anti-sematic? Defending an Israeli army officer from what was in fact quite subtle verbal abuse makes me anti-sematic...I ask you...

Actually, this is too easy ,I'm bored , and I would just be repeating myself if I said anything else. The post stands up on its own ,and readers can make judgements for themselves.

Other things: Ramy still believes in the Israeli state, he thinks the 'right of return' is unrealistic, and he just thinks that pulling out of the occupied territories would end all of Israel's geopolitical problems. He sees all of their current problems, including suicide bombings, stemming from occupation. He's being quite realistic really. And to say what he's saying now is much less popular, and he gets much more hostility directed towards him. But he keeps doing it.

The fact that, at one stage last year, Sharon's support was as low as 30%, and the Refusniks were at least partly responsible for this, suggests that calling the aboue post anti-sematic is nuts....but I'm not going to go back over old ground...

Some decent people in 'Israel'

by Caspian

Fri Apr 11, 2003 00:07

We seem to have an Israeli shill on board! LOL.

It is good to hear there are still some decent men and women in that slimy little, warmongering country that goes all over the world stirring up murder and mayhem.
Remember Vannenu, the man who courageously told the world about Israel's weapons of mass destruction. He was kidnapped in London and has now done about 18 years in solitary confinement. They are a cruel people. You think they would have learnt from their history.

Vicious Anti-Semitic claptrap

by Avi Clone

Thu Apr 10, 2003 23:43

This posting should be deleted immediately ....

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refusenik speaks in Sligo

Comments (5 of 5)