The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering

by Oliver O'Driscoll Sat May 25, 2002 11:45

Yes, the live of any human being murdered by the German fascists is of equal value. The most obvious point however is the Fascist "final solution" was directed against the Jewish communites of Europe. The scale of the crimes of the nazis re the Jewish people is what sets it apart from other Nazi crimes. Their crimes against other peoples such as the Roma are equally to be condemned.

The allied powers failed to make any attempts to impede the genocidal campaign of the fascists. They did not for example make any attempt to bomb the extermination facilites in Auschwitz. Their treatment of Jewish survivors after the war was appalling.

The property stolen by the nazis, should be returned to the original owners or their children.

by lina Sat May 25, 2002 22:48

and the land stolen from the palestinians should be returned to the original owners or their children.

by Oliver O'Driscoll Sat May 25, 2002 22:57

I agree that the Palestinian people have a right to a state of their own. The six million Jewish people who were murdered by the German fascists cannot be blamed for the ethnic cleansing in 1948. The only solution is a two state one.

by Jonny Boy - ----------------------------------- Sat May 25, 2002 23:55 jonnyboy at hotmail dot com ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------

Thanks Oliver --- of course there should be a TWO State solution but so far the Arabs have been unlucky in their main Palestinian leader who has proved to be corrupt and inept .
He needs lessons from Gerry Adams in diplomacy .
Instead he acts like Roy Keane [as a youngster I used to see our soccer team lose every match in Dalymount Park so that episode saddens me too !]
Yassir Arafat as you know wnats two states to run -he wants to take over both Palestine and Israel !

As for Finklestein he is a disgruntled left wing stirrer upper who likes ot sell his books by making a general case from one or tow specific examples . Worth reading and discounting !

by Liam Sun May 26, 2002 03:15

What's wrong with a one state solution: one secular and democratic Palestine with equal rights for all, right of return for the Arab Palestinians who have been driven out, etc.? As long as the theocratic and extremely militarized Zioinst state exists won't it continue to discriminate against the internal Arab population, and bully and exploit it's weak and impoverished neighbor?

by Jonny Boy - --------------------------- Sun May 26, 2002 10:39 jonnyboy at hotmail dot com -------------------------- -----------------------------

An Arab Majority dominated secular democratic State ?

Who are you kidding - Liam ?

by Oliver O'Driscoll Sun May 26, 2002 11:28

It is true that a single secular democratic would be the ideal solution, but it's unrealistic given the fact that the vast majority of Israelis (not only likud supporters) would not agree. As I have stated before, the only realistic solution is a two state one. Everntually, there should be a Socialist Israel and a Socialist Palestine which would have good relations, economic co-operation which provide a better life for working people in both Israel and Palestine.

by Dave Leemann Sun May 26, 2002 11:29

HOLOCAUST made by Zionist
HITLER made by Zionist
STALIN made by Zionist
NAZI made by Zionist
FASCIST made by Zionist
COMMUNIST made by Zionist
MAFIA made by Zionist
WORLD DICTATORS maad by Zionist

The White House made by the Zionist

by Oliver O'Driscoll Sun May 26, 2002 13:47

The fact that any person who supports the right of the Palestinian people to their own state, does not mean, it does not follow that such a person is (a) anti-Semitic (b) a person who condones the nazi “final solution” in a way whatsoever or indeed attempts to deny that the Holocaust ever happened.

I condemn without reservation the crimes of the Nazis against (a) the Jewish people, (b) the Roma people (c) people who were mentally ill and/or mentally handicapped.

I condemn equally the crimes committed at (a) Deir Yassin, (b) Sabra-Shatila and (c) Qana. Attempting to utilise the Holocaust to justify these crimes is a gross insult to the memory of the millions of Jewish people murdered by the Nazis.

I support the two state solution as the only realistic one, that means a total withdrawal from all occupied terrorities, dismantling all settlements and the Palestinian people in Lebanon not being forgotten, one of the many flaws of the Oslo accords. It also means that the Israeli and Palestinian peoples have the right to live in peace and have a sense of security.

On a lighter note, I think Roy Keane is the best player we have in the Irish team, I believe as captain of the national team, he had the right to complain about facilities in Saipan, sadly he was a little undiplomatic in the way he expressed his complaints.

by Jonnyboy Sun May 26, 2002 21:04 jonnyboy at hotmail dot com

Oliver -if you want to compare atrocities I am older than you and can quote more so dont me so selective with your trotting out the usual names . If any one here in Ireland or in Israel wants a real peace we have to stop asking what youd Da did in the Civil War etc or in your case your grand da . [Jews will tell you about Old City Jerusalem 1922 and Hebron 1929 and the University Doctors murdered on the way to Mount Scopus in 1948 and Kfar Etzion in April 1948 before the British left .]
By the way no one seems to think it possible for Israelis to live in Arab controlled areas --does that mean that no Arabs can live in Israel when there are two states?
All this glib talk about "dismantling " the settlements takes no notice of what is actually there . Barak was prepared to evacuate many of the smaller ones and leave the buildings and houses for new occupants . Others are towns and communities built on State land with populations like 7000 ,and 30,000 --not little hilltop camps ,so why can not Jews live there when a real peace develops ?
Re Keane --seems as if Eamonn Dunphy had a hand in some thing .

by Oliver O'Driscoll Sun May 26, 2002 22:49

I don’t accept that I was being selective when I listed the atrocities at Deir Yassin, Sabra-Shatila or Qana.
Defenceless men, women and children were murdered in the Sabra-Shatila massacre, It is true that IDF troops on this occasion did not participate directly, instead they subcontracted the operation of murder, looting and rape to the Lebanese Phalange and the Haddad Militia. Even the Israeli government enquiry held Ariel Sharon responsible and he was removed from his post as minister of defence. Even after the massacre, Palestinian and Lebanese civilians were being abducted by the IDF, the Shin Beth and the Phalange and Haddad militia. Many of these people were never seen again. I am sure you are aware of the court case in Belgium. The Deir Yassin massacre has been documented by the ICRC at the time. Qana was witnessed by the U.N. troops at the base where the civilians took refuge. All these examples have one thing in common; they were not battles between armies but atrocities against civilians. In other words, war crimes as defined by the fourth Geneva Convention. I will do you the courtesy of assuming you would not attempt to condone such acts.

Regarding settlements, they are clearly illegal under international law. These towns, to use your own term were constructed outside the internationally recognised borders of Israel. In the event of a final peace treaty establishing a Palestinian state, it is unlikely to put it mildly that the new Palestinian government would agree to the presence of the “settlers” on Palestinian terrority. Given their behaviour toward the Palestinian population, I don’t think it would be in their own interests to remain, many of them are extreme right-wingers, fundamentalists and overtly racist.