Sinn fein riddled with racism

by Chekov Wed Jul 23, 2003 15:51

"driving the "Brits" out of Ireland it is morally no different from the racist in England who uses insults like "Paki". Brits Out is as racist as Pakis Out."

Indeed, there is absolutely no difference. The Pakistan army have been occupying britain for a while now haven't they. They have also been practicing systematic discrimination against a large part of the indigenous population, haven't they.

You may not like the slogan, Brits out, (and I don't since although most people may mean the British army by brits, but some mean it in the sectarian sense) but to pretend that it is in any way the same as saying 'Paki's out' in Britain, is plain stupid. I suspect that you are just a SF hater and don't even believe what you are writing, you are just looking to have a go at them.

by Davy Carlin - W/Belfast SWP Wed Jul 23, 2003 15:54

The charter against racism is to be welcomed

by Seán Wed Jul 23, 2003 16:32

Maybe the title should read,
"Sinn Féin: One of the few parties actually trying to combat racism, sectarianism and sexism inside the party and in society in general".

Just a thought.

by andy Tirrie-bal Wed Jul 23, 2003 16:50

Im not in SF nor do I remotely sympathise or empathise with SF, but I am involved in anti Racism work in communities and I can honestly say that SF have played a positive role in preventing an upsurge in racism in working class areas in the Republic. In the North UDA sympathisers (possibly members) have been involved in a concerted effort to persecute emigrants and refugees.

by TPT Wed Jul 23, 2003 16:53

How the fuck can this gobshite refer to the IRA campaign as a racist campaign?It was a campaign against an occupying force in their own country.Please remember you total fuckwit that it was the nationalists that were and still are in the minority in the north.They were treated worse than dogs by the Protestant majority for years.Housing,jobs,etc.The list is endless.If you think the orange order has the right to march through nationalist areas and taunt catholics, I suppose you also believe that the KKK should have a march through the Bronx.

by robby Wed Jul 23, 2003 17:44

Well, maybe if you had read what I had written you would understand, TCP, or whatever you call yourself.

The people they murder are born on the same island as them and live in the same towns as them but they only have different religous beliefs a different culture or a different passport.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Féin Wed Jul 23, 2003 17:57 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

But to refer to the specific points made by the Troll:

1. Republicanism is an inclusive, non-sectarian, non-racist political ideology and as other posters have pointed out, our record in anti-racism is a very good one. Your theory that it is riddled with racism is nonsense.

2. Brits Out is a reference to the British Army and its forces in Ireland. We fully accept that there are hundreds of thousands of British people living north and south of the border and we are reaching out to them a Hell of a lot more than they are reaching out to us. They have as much a right to live and work in Ireland as anyone else. We just believe they should not, as a minority, have a veto over the majority.

3. Sinn Fein has never argued that it is acceptable to attack those who acknowledge British identity and heritage. We have often condemned such attacks like attacks on Orange Halls or Protestant Churches for example. Sinn Fein did, during the armed struggle, support attacks on the Security Forces. We make no apology for supporting the IRA's engagements with the military and security forces of British imperialism.

4. A collaborator and a tout do not mean either of the interpretations you put on them. A tout is an informer, that person's heritage has got nothing to do with whether they are an informer or not unless you are implying that Protestant people are more likely to be informers which is in itself a sectarian statement. A collaborator is a person who collaborates with an occupation force and is used in countries and by people around the world. Their collaboration makes them targets, not their heritage, which is supremely irrelevant.

5. If you want your British and Irish heritage, have it. Sinn Fein supports British people in Ireland holding on to their heritage, their beliefs, their customs, their citizenship in Britain (Assuming the British Government wants them which is, frankly, dubious)

by TPT Wed Jul 23, 2003 18:01

How the fuck can you say that the British Army were born on this Island?What a daft bastard.

by Freud Wed Jul 23, 2003 18:04

Its been a while since Robby was ranting here. It looks as if he was given temporary release from the Asylum again. It just goes to show: care in the community isnt working.

by james Wed Jul 23, 2003 18:15

if you could get british armed pressence civil and judical system in ireland please leave us and respest the irish people as a whole to choose how they live what form of economy they want etc etc out of a spay can and on to a wall then thats what we'd do but BRITS OUT is that bit easser sorry for offending you iam of now to find a wall big enough shit the spays goin to cost me a fortune

by Capital A Wed Jul 23, 2003 18:41

not all fascists are right wing...

by - Wed Jul 23, 2003 18:55

Mr Chekov shows us how low the WSM will crawl with their support of Nationalism.

by Canteen Kevin Wed Jul 23, 2003 19:04

There is nothing wrong with being anti-British and to equate that with racism is wishful thinking by anti Republicans of whatever shade of Brit be it Orange, D4 facist or whatever. "Britain" is a false union imposed by England on the rest of us to better centralise the looting of wealth here and elsewhere by London. The Union Jack shitrag, adopted around 1707 didn't even bother to invent a flag for Wales to represent it's incorporation into "Britain" like they did for Ireland (the "cross of St. Patrick"). The Blueshirts who adopted the"Cross of St. Patrick" as their own anti-Republican symbol.

English people are entitled to be proud of being English, Irish of being Irish etc, but beware of anyone being proud of being British. If they are they are likely proud of or ignorant of all "Britain" has given the world since it's unwanted inception, a belief in racial and religious supremacy racism, colonialism, class system, Spice Girls, etc, etc, etc

by TheIdiotsAreTakingOver Wed Jul 23, 2003 20:29

in today's (23/07/2003)Belfast Telegraph.

If ever their was an issue which didn't deserve to be turned into a badly-informed and *ner-ner-ner* sectarian one, its surely this. and anyway, if we're talking 'race', I hardly think 'British'--- or English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, for that matter ---actually counts as such.

God. This country.

by Chekov Wed Jul 23, 2003 20:35

Saying that there is a difference between 'brits out' and 'pakis out' is craven pandering to nationalism? Smells like the one and only SPART LOGIC. I imagine it also makes me, and the entire organisation that I belong to, some type of chauvinist, Labourite, pseudo-revolutionary petit bourgeois, doesn't it?

If you hurry, you can get that fax off to Langley in time to get back to me for first thing tomorrow morning.

by boring iosaf Wed Jul 23, 2003 21:14

the cross of Saint Patrick was not invented for that purpose. I recall Mr Finnerty and his loving wife explained the history of the Union flag the other day.

and there was an interesting discussion in the comments of "how british do you feel" over on UK imc for the July 12th shenanigins.
i love those oxymorons.

i dont think anyone can claim britishness as an ethnic or racial indentity, but historically it must be noted that the term "british" was first used by the Scottish after the succession of Seamus VI. The phrase was then northern and southern british, and the english of the day didn't like it all not even a little bit.

not even a wee smidgen of a bit.

by robby Thu Jul 24, 2003 03:32

Well Robby
by TPT Wednesday, Jul 23 2003, 5:01pm
How the fuck can you say that the British Army were born on this Island?What a daft bastard.
-this might be hard for you to understand but there are one million people on the island who are BRITISH, there are thousands of ORANGEMEN on the island and the PSNI and RUC personnel are born on this island, the members of the IRISH guards and royal IRISH regiment who are in Iraq right now were born on this island, are you noticing a pattern yet?
Until peoples differences are recognized and respected we will not be able to move forward to build a peaceful future for our children.

Robbys Return
by Freud Wednesday, Jul 23 2003, 5:04pm

Its been a while since Robby was ranting here. It looks as if he was given temporary release from the Asylum again. It just goes to show: care in the community isnt working.
-actually I've been on a NATO exercise for the past four months so have'nt been able to use the net much, but I'm on Summer leave now

by Justin Moran - Sinn Féin Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:48 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

If you think Unionism is respecting anything different, either republicans and nationalists or Moslems (You guys still opposing a Mosque in Portadown?) you are sorely mistaken.

by TPT Thu Jul 24, 2003 13:04

...of Orange

by TPT Thu Jul 24, 2003 13:10

Tell me this you silly daft cunt.
What are the "Irish Regiment" doing in Iraq?

They are fighting for British financial interest.They like you are also a shower of daft bastards.Anyone who fights for the Brit army cannot consider themselves to be Irish in any way shape or form.So yes Brits Out and the sooner the better.

by Ali la Pointe Thu Jul 24, 2003 19:48

Come to think of it. Pakistani troops on the streets of Oldham and Bolton would be a cheerful sight, nazi boneheads, including the Adair faction kind, falling down the stairs in an overcrowded police station... better still a Pakistani Defence Force checkpoint at the entrance to the Royal Irish Yacht Club in Dún Laoghaire, administering strip seraches to while bronzed Tarquins in their CK shorts and deck shoes while Zia supporters harangue them and pelt them with rotten fruit...... aahhh summer, the time for dreaming...

by TheIdiotsAreTakingOVer Thu Jul 24, 2003 22:41

>>>>>>I dont think anyone can claim britishness as an ethnic or racial indentity, but historically it must be noted that the term "british" was first used by the Scottish after the succession of Seamus VI. The phrase was then northern and southern british, and the english of the day didn't like it all not even a little bit.

not even a wee smidgen of a bit >>>>

If Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue is anything to go by, the English language was the language of the peasantry: latin was the language of the ruling elite. Obvious, really, but I suppose William the Conqueror is the one who started all of this.

Hmmm... can anyone provide a link to a potted history of the 'British'--- sorry--- Isles?

by ROBBY Fri Jul 25, 2003 02:15

Daft Cunt
by TPT Thursday, Jul 24 2003, 12:10pm
Tell me this you silly daft cunt.
What are the "Irish Regiment" doing in Iraq?
They are fighting for British financial interest.They like you are also a shower of daft bastards.Anyone who fights for the Brit army cannot consider themselves to be Irish in any way shape or form.So yes Brits Out and the sooner the better.

Yes, fighting for Britain and Ireland financial interests, tell me prick, what does your car run on? Thin air? At the end of the day Ireland will be burning petro products just like the rest of us, but at least we have the balls to go and secure our interests.

by pat c Fri Jul 25, 2003 15:42

Latin was also the language of Diplomacy, being a Lingua Fracas , so to speak. John Milton for instance was Cromwells Latin Secretary and would have dealt with his International/ Diplomatic correspondence.

by Seáinín Sun Jul 27, 2003 02:30

After 1066, the language of ordinary people was Old English and the ruling elite spoke Old French.

by pat c Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:14

A bit of a Freudian slip om my part (Fracas!). But the Oxford English Dictionary definition of Lingua Franca is : "a language adopted as a common language between two speakers whose native languages are different." That was what I meant.