Critical Mass Today

by Spokes Fri Jul 25, 2003 11:04

Apparently RTE are filming this months ride for a Nationwide special they are going to do on cycling in Dublin. Anyone that comes along that does not want to be filmed won’t be, but it seems like a good opportunity to get the message out to a wider audience.

by iosaf - wireless head Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:09

the State wireless of Erin:
201 deaths on the roads of Ireland do far this year. The CAR KILLS.

also in the news:
The U.S. Congressional Report on Sept. 11th
has been published. But I can not find it online.
(perhaps someone else can.......)

by path in residence Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:13

I think Eddie Shaw from the "NSC" today called for extra funding to improve roads, as a way of cutting down on road accidents.

Surely everyone knows that it is speed and drink driving that are the main killers on the roads. The condition of the surfaces rarely has anything to do with it.

The NSC is supported by the Irish Insurance Federation. The IIF obviously want to see a drop in accidents, because every time there is one they have to pay out; but they certainly wouldnt like to see people not buying cars - because then they wouldnt make any money.

The proper way to better road safety is to lower speed limits on the roads, impose massive fines and/or take licenses away from those caught drink driving, and put enormous taxes on petrol (by doing this, people can have cars - but they'll hopefully only make ESSENTIAL trips because of the cost involved, and other times just take the train, bus, or bike).

Fixing the roads up will do fuck all towards cutting down on road deaths.

Would I be correct in saying also that the NSC has no consultation with cyclist groups (who also use the roads!)

by Elle Fri Jul 25, 2003 13:55

Why would the NSC discuss road safety with cyclists - who don't know the first thing about raod safety. I have been driving around this city (my home YOUR capital) for many years and I have found cyclists to be the rudest, most incompetent users of the road - I am regularly forced to compromise my own safe driving habits to compensate for the poor habits of cyclists - have you people ever heard of hand signals....are you farmiliar with the correct procedure (the one followed by motorists) when approaching red lights (you don't cycle up on the pavement to avoid them or simply ignore them - you are supposed to STOP), when there is an obstacle in my way I stop, indicate and move around it when it is safe to do so....I am a safe road user so I don't behave like a cyclist and simply pull out without looking. I have passed a test, I have a certificate of competency....you guys can just take to the roads with no training (and it shows in your behaviour). It is a testament to the good driving habits of people like me that more of you aren't injured (or worse) on the roads.

by Badman Fri Jul 25, 2003 14:20

Which form of transportation kills and injures more people, cars or bikes?

Do you really think that cyclists are all reckless and don't care about safety?

You are a small minded eejit. You can't see beyond your own petty frustrations. You drive on roads that are engineered with absolutely no regard for cyclists, where it is utterly impossible for a cyclist to cycle safely, where to cycle is to risk your life, where you are forced to navigate your way through the obstacle course of potholes and drainage grates on the side of the road inches away from certain death, where it is far safer to break the laws as a cyclist than to obey them (it is far safer to turn right when the lights are red at many junctions). Yet, I'm sure you don't know any of this, nor do you care. You'd rather blame the cyclist who swerves in front of you, than blame the road engineering that is the real source of the problem.

After driving home this evening, make sure to kick the dog to make up for the frustrations of your day.

by Anthony Fri Jul 25, 2003 14:29

Critical Mass at its most basic is a very simple idea. It's just a bunch of cyclists meeting at the same time each month and cycling through town. It's an enjoyable and sociable way of spending an hour or so early on a Friday evening.

But it has the potential to be more than just a friendly cycle through town. Last year the Critical Mass cycled through both Heuston and Connolly stations to highlight Irish Rail's opposition to provision of cycle parking and their lack of interest in integrated sustainable transport. This year we cycled through Dominic St. to support the residents in their struggle for a non-lethal environment for their children and we also highlighted the issue of wars for oil with a visit to the Statoil petrol station on the quays.

As pointed out by 'path', the National Safety Council is mainly composed of members from the insurance industry. There is no representation on the council from either cyclists or pedestrians. This is reflected in their policy of placing the responsibility of avoiding accidents on the victim over that of encouraging drivers of motor vehicles to drive responsibly and safely. One example of this attitude is their advice to parents: "A bicycle is a vehicle not a toy and a cyclist runs a high risk. Think twice before allowing your child to cycle to school. No child under the age of twelve should be allowed to cycle in any sort of traffic."

Essentially their message for the future of the nation is "Don't Cycle". Accordingly, the Dublin Cycle Campaign plan to protest this evening at their head quarters in Ranelagh. The protest has been planned to coincide with the critical mass as the DCC feel that the majority of critical massers would support the idea. Further details at http://www.connect.ie/dcc/nsc/protest_cycle.html

by Spokes Fri Jul 25, 2003 14:37

I think it is wrong of you to generalize about all cyclists not being conscious of road safety
As someone who has cycled in Dublin for years I have noticed that a lot of car drivers.
1. Always park in bike lanes, causing cyclists to swerve out into traffic to avoid them.
2. Stick their fronts out when pulling onto a road, again causing cyclists to swerve to avoid them.
3. Don’t look when they open their car doors onto the road.
4. Turn left when it suits them regardless of if they cut off a cyclist or not.
5. Generally have total disregard for all other road users.
Also a number of questions for you to think about while your stuck in a traffic jam on the way home.

How long has the campaign against drink driving being going on?
How many people have been killed as a result of drunk drivers?
How much tax payers money has been wasted on campaigns and police resources trying to stop people drink driving?
By what percentage has the rate of asthma in children increased over the last number of years as a direct result of car fumes?
Why does Operation Freeflow seem to simply involve a cop standing at traffic lights to ensure drivers obey them?
Would you not be healthier, fitter happier and richer if you were cycling to and from work instead of driving?

by Elle Fri Jul 25, 2003 14:40

Road safety SHOULD be the concern of all road users but this is simply not the case in my experience. Sure if you are unhappy with the state of the roads by all means do something about it - write to the Corporation etc., don't have a mini protest every time you come across a pot-hole (by throwing yourself martyr-style into the path of oncoming traffic) The plain fact is that cyclists are arrogant, unsafe and incompetent road users....I too encounter potholes and live every day with the poor design of the road system - only a child would take this as an excuse to behave recklessly - when I encounter a pot-hole and I don't want to drive into it I indicate and drive around it WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO and only then. Cyclists need to stop relying on the foresight of careful motorists to save their lives - as you say cyclists encounter "near death" every day - they should take some responsibility for their actions - don't blame the roads (your friend was quick to point out that the state of the roads is not the problem) blame the road users - personally I blame cyclists for some of the dangers on the roads (with good reason) but you guys never seem mature enough to accept that the rules of the road should apply to all road users...yes even the red light one (which gives you such problems)!

BTW - who is it safer for when you break a red light? for pedestrians crossing or motorists swerving to avoid you?

by Spokes Fri Jul 25, 2003 14:48

Again you seem to assume that all cyclist break red ligts.
Maybe you should get out of your car and cycle around Dublin for a week and then you might get an idea of its like.
I agree with you that cyclists should obey the rules of the road. And you seem to be a safe driver, fair play to you but many are not!
If there was a comprehensive and well designed cyclepath system in Dublin (and if cars did not park in them) then cyclists would not have to come into contact with cars at all.

By the way car drivers don't seem to understand the rules on indicating on roundabouts or what those big yellow boxes at junctions are, or the fact that an amber light does not mean speed up!

by iosaf Fri Jul 25, 2003 14:51

the stopping point for cyclists is onaverage some five metres ahead of cars, to allow the bicycle defined as any mode of transport powered by the muscular effort alone of the user, enough time to get clear of the cars defined as any vehicle powered by an engine whose energy is equivalent to that of many many horses.

Pedestrians generally die or suffer serious injury if hit by a car which is travelling faster than 35km an hour. Most cars do so. Especially in city areas. Pedestrians generally do not die as a result of being hit by a bicycle.

ON YER BIKE!

by Agent of Chaos Fri Jul 25, 2003 14:57

I presume you are a member of MIJAG. Your contempt for non-car users points to that.

I only wish the SP would put as much effort into the anti-privatisation campaign as they do into MIJAG. They have even backed a MIJAG candidate in elections!

A message of support for cyclists wouldnt go amiss either. How about it Mr Higgins?

by Cleaver Fri Jul 25, 2003 15:07

Don't see why not

by Elle Fri Jul 25, 2003 15:19

Actually I'm a bit long in the tooth to be involved in a campaign for cheaper insurance for boy-racing yoofs! Due to my age and exemplary driving record my insurance is quite manageable - thank you. Spook, you will note that I advocate ALL road users to obey the rules of the road - when motorists don't we all know the consequences however I am not so sure that cyclists who blithely cycle around this city are aware of the chaos they leave in their wake. If as one person has stated you in the cycling fraternity face death at every turn then what I see EVERY DAY on the streets of my city (no hand signals, breaking red lights, overtaking each other without checking behind) defies logic altogether. I would love if you guys could prove me wrong - it would make my driving experience a lot more pleasurable - but it hasn't happened yet!

by Spokes Fri Jul 25, 2003 15:47

Funnily enough during the Critical Mass all the cyclists participating do obey the red lights.
But in fairness we’ll just have to agree to disagree, I consider myself to be a safe cyclist, out of protection for myself, I always signal before moving out I obey traffic lights etc. but I do get really frustrated at car drivers who simply don’t see bikes.
But the bottom line is that your argument about bike riders disregarding the rules of the road is the same argument I make about car drivers.
The main difference is that cars cause a lot more problems to the quality of life in Dublin than bikes in terms of fatalities, environmental damage, health matters etc etc etc….
Therefore again I’d suggest you cycle around Dublin for a few weeks to get an idea of what its like, or else come along to Critical Mass and you’ll meet a really friendly bunch of cyclists who are not arrogant, unsafe and incompetent road users

by 9 Fri Jul 25, 2003 18:57

Fast women hit the road
By Alexandra Frean, Social Affairs Correspondent



CREEPING egalitarianism has knocked another dent in the shiny bodywork of male pride. A generation of fast women would rather spend cash on motoring than their homes.

more at

by R Isible Fri Jul 25, 2003 20:50

I agree that cyclists not-signalling, breaking red lights, using the footpath and in general ignoring the duties that they have under law as vehicle operators is a problem: it's dangerous for them.

I am a firm advocate of Vehicular/Effective Cycling which advocates that cyclists obey the vehicle laws and more importantly do NOT accept the behaviour which motorists and incompetent cyclists are so keen on: crawling in beside parked cars, weaving in-and-out, riding on the pavement/footpath, crossing on pedestrian crossings instead of as a vehicle in turning lanes ( see "Some basic traffic safety tips at http://www.cicle.org/commuterlinks/commuterlinks.html
although this is a US-centric document it is still good advice). I believe this to be safer and more fun than the creeping, inferior style adopted by many cyclists and this is supported by a huge amount of research carried out by John Forester (see the link below).

For you, as a motorist, the adoption of this behaviour by a majority of cyclists would undoubtedly lead to a situation where your progress would be severly impeded in the interests of our safety. Roll on the day! Vive la velorution!

by leigh Sat Jul 26, 2003 02:53

elle
not even the traffic department or the corporation want to make your city drive more pleasurable. Eoin Keegan, Director of traffic said last year that if anybody thought that the city should be made conducive to more car use needs their head examined. The corporation are actively trying to reduce the number of cars in the city.

It may be subtle but the changing of routes, reduction of on street parking and the laying of LUAS lines on busy thoughofares is in part trying to send a message to car drivers. In a city you pollute too much, you congest too much, you cause too many accidents and damage.

I consider myself a safe cyclist - obey red lights although I will on occasion hop onto the path if my way is blocked by a car (happens a lot). I understand its frustrating to see people glide past you and get to work on time while you stew in traffic.

One thing from experience of being a driver as well as a cyclist is that you get a very limited view of the general goings-on of the road while sitting in your car. You have little view of the way other drivers are using the road beyond a few cars in front and one behind so Elle Id also recommend hoping on a bike for a few weeks and then come back and see what you say.