Sinn Féin Reps fund party growth

by Joe Momma Tue Jul 29, 2003 19:15

Sinn Féin have always led the way in, *ahem*, innovative fundraising measures (if nothing else) but this one is hardly that novel. Doesn't Joe Higgins fund his party in much the same way? I know that up until recently the Green Party's main source of funding was a portion of the salaries of their MEPs and TDs. I'm not sure if this is still the case.

Of course, some would argue that money is not the most important resource in building a party or movement!

by Mitchell - none Tue Jul 29, 2003 19:24

So answer me this how much do Sinn Féin get from their 1. Corporate friends in Irish America. 2. Right wing congressmen and senators?

by Curious Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:02

Did the SP get for supporting Loyalists in QUB?

by Mitchell Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:14

When did the SP get involved in this argument? I am not in the SP. I'm no marxist.

All I'm asking is for Sinn Fein to answer the question.

by Alex Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:30

I'm sure money was generated from the Internet sales of the memorabilia commemorating the IRA too.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Féin Wed Jul 30, 2003 13:08 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Joe,
No it's not new information or anything but worth reminding people about all the same. Since the SP can't finish a sentence without reminding people that Joe Higgins does the same it's worth pointing out to those like Mitchell who believe planeloads of American gold donated by freerepublic.com subscribers are shipped in every week to Fenit. And no, money is not the most important resource, personnel is, money's second ;)

Mitchell,
I can't rememeber off-hand how much money was raised in the States, a few hundred grand if memory serves. The information is available from the Standards in Public Office Commission and was published on Indymedia before. I have no idea how many of the people who donated to us in the States were right wing. I have no idea how many of the people who donated to us in the States were left wing. I have no idea how many of them were congresspersons or senators. The assumption on the Irish left seems to be that if people get money from America it must be from card carring members of the Republican party attending a function to relax from killing Iraqis.

I have no doubt we get money from right wing people in the States, or from well-off people. I don't have a problem with that. The one time I attended a fundraiser in the States when I was living there was in Sacramento. A standard, ballad band and bar type function like we do here. Working and middle class crowd with a few better off people and a local City Councilman who is Irish and wanted to keep the vote. Raised $5,000. Now possibly we should have asked everyone who attended to fill out a form stating their political stance on a variety of issues before permitting them but I've never seen anyone else do that.

Alex,
Yes indeed the sales of tee-shirts and other memorabilia makes a good bit of money including my own personal favourite bumper sticker 'YES - We killed Michael Collins and we'd do it again'. Big seller in its day.

by . Wed Jul 30, 2003 13:28

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= beat you all on the offensive index.
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by Alex Wed Jul 30, 2003 14:24

No surprise there, a Shinner proclaiming to be proud of killing someone.

Are you as proud to have 'shot Michael Collins' as ye are to have killed an armed Garda in the back?

His name was Jerry McCabe.

by pat c Wed Jul 30, 2003 14:44

Are you still proud of Ballyseedy? How about the 81 prisoners shot during the Civil War?

by Janus Wed Jul 30, 2003 15:00

First of all, McCabe was not shot in the back, he was shot in the front. And let me put it this way, I'm as proud about the killing of Garda Jerry McCabe as he was of murdering an unarmed IRA volunteer in 88. EXACTLY as proud. Brave man Jerry, brave fucking man.

I think Justin was taking the piss about the bumper sticker as I never saw one like that but I share his loathing for the man who started the Civil War, did Britain's dirty work for them and turned on the IRA.

Hell's not hot enough, nor eternity long enough for Collins, that anti-semitic monarchist mongrel bastard Griffith and the demi-fascist O'Higgins.

by pat c Wed Jul 30, 2003 15:47

Count to ten, slowly!!!! I fear your head will explode! Ever see David Cronenbergs film 'Scanners'?

I think you are being a bit harsh towards Collins. After all, HE had Sir Henry Wilson assassinated, he ran guns to the IRA in the North, he maintained contacts with the Anti-Treaty side. So he shouldnt be talked about in the sdame breath as O'Higgins or Griffith.


He was juggling a lot of balls in the air and some of them would eventually have dropped or been shot out of the air by the real Free-Staters.

There is also the question: Who REALLY shot Collins? My money is on Emmett Dalton! MI5 to the core I reckon!

Also, much as i hate to say it, we lost the election in 1922. I would reccomend: "1922: The Birth of Irish Democracy" by Tom Garvin. I wouldnt agree with all of his conclusions but he made face up to some previously unpalateable hometruths.

by Janus Wed Jul 30, 2003 16:05

*counts to ten*

I'd have a sympathetic enough attitude to Collins compared to the armchair heroes who made up a lot of the Free State leadership but the chance to take a couple of digs at a Blueshirt was too good to miss. They don't like being reminded he ran guns to the IRA in the Six though.

At the same time, he did attack the Four Courts, beginning the Civil War and he turned on the IRA in the South. Many of the Free State officers involved in State atrocities in Kerry, like Ballyseedy, were Collins' old mob out of Dublin Command.

I always suspected the Masons killed him, or the Dublin Brigade of the Illuminati ;) Conspiracy theories aside, I reckon it was a simple ambush, why would MI5 want dead the man who was implementing their policy in Ireland for them?

I've always accepted republicans lost the '22 election, but the Treaty was never put to the people, and that is the crucial issue.

by Alex Wed Jul 30, 2003 17:50

My apologies, I didn't realise that shooting someone in the back was not the same as shooting someone in the front, or the head, or the leg, or the arm, the kneecaps or...... well IRA/Sinn Fein can fill you in on the rest.

I always thought that if someone was shot, they were shot. If someone died because for no other reason than they were a Garda on duty, they were murdered.

Oh yeah, and this all happened after a 95% YES vote on the Good Friday Agreement was returned.

But once again my apologies. I'm sure the fact that Gerry McCabe was shot in the front and not the back will make all the difference to his family, his friends and the 95% who voted to end the murder by all sides in Northern Ireland.

by pat c Wed Jul 30, 2003 17:56

You dont even know your recent history, let alone that of 80 years ago. The McCabe shooting took place before the Good Friday vote, hence the debate as to whether or not those convicted are qualifying prisoners.

They were found guilty by a court of Manslaughter not Murder. Do you not recognise the jurisdiction of the court????

by Janus Wed Jul 30, 2003 18:30

Frankly I couldn't care less if he was shot from the back, front or killed by repeated sodomisation. I just hate factual inaccuracies and correct them. Your little more than a good source of them.

I note too that you have chucked in more inaccuracies, as Pat C points out McCabe was killed before the Good Friday Agreement was signed and during the breakdown in the cessation. He also points out they, actually only two of the five, were convicted of Manslaughter, not Murder. Manslaughter is the UNINTENTIONAL killing.

They are qualifying prisoners according to the High Court, since FG supports the implementation of the GFA which you refer to with such teary pride, I'm sure you thus support their release, if not I'll be glad of the story why.

I note you also duck the fact that McCabe killed an unarmed man in 1988 when Hugh Hehir was shot dead. Doesn't fit into your vision of him as a cool, clean hero to know he killed a man trying to surrender and then gloated about it to that man's friends and family.

Of course for a party's whose traditional Justice/Law and Order policy has consisted of issuing a blank cheque to the gardai to do what they want without asking questions, that's not a problem.

by Joe Momma Wed Jul 30, 2003 18:40

So when can we expect to see bumper stickers on sinnfeinbookshop.com that read 'Yes - We shot Jerry McCabe and we'd do it again'? Or perhaps T-Shirts along the lines of 'Armed Robber at Work'?

by pat c Wed Jul 30, 2003 18:49

when can we expect Joe Momma to stop being a smart aleck? Why not knock the State for a change instead of having a go at anti-bin charges campaigners and Republicans?

You could even criticise Gardai who have shot unarmed people - naah that would be a bit much to expect.

by james Wed Jul 30, 2003 21:34

In the parish around beal na blath a local priet (can't rem his name) but was also a local historian around the time of the collins film and the previous Today tonight docomentry in the early 90's who shot collins had a story of a man in the fifties going to confession and admitting (not bosting) he shot collins his name was sonny o neal he was a volunteer in the IRA at the time. no other scorce's for it though. Have to say that bumper sticker would be rapid

by chekov Wed Jul 30, 2003 22:56

"I didn't realise that shooting someone in the back was not the same as shooting someone in the front"

But Alex, you were the one who brought this particular inaccurate fact up, so we have to assume that you think it is important. Or maybe you were just mentioning it as an incidental detail? You might just as well have said "shot him, while McCabe was wearing an anorak?" For what its worth, shooting somebody in the back is considered cowardly as the killer doesn't have the courage to look into the victim's face - as I'm sure you know well.

"If someone died because for no other reason than they were a Garda on duty, they were murdered."

A Garda is carrying out the duty of enforcing the state's monopoly on violence. It is their job to violently stop anybody who tries to challenge this monopoly. The mere fact of being a Garda on duty implies that you are already involved in violence - and thus no innocent bystander. Not that I'm saying that his death was a good thing - I can't see that it did any good to anybody - but it's a risk that you take when you are involved in violence every day. From time to time groups challenge the state's monopoly on violence, and in some rare cases the state is defeated or loses resources in localised battles. However, in the long run they almost always crush the opposition with their overwhelming arsenal of violence. The state cares nothing for grunts like McCabe, dispensible, replacable and forgettable. But whatever the reason may be, he was a man of violence. The RA might have killed him, but the state started it.

by Joe Momma Thu Jul 31, 2003 01:15

"when can we expect Joe Momma to stop being a smart aleck? Why not knock the State for a change instead of having a go at anti-bin charges campaigners and Republicans?"

Because I doubt the State reads Indymedia so it would be wasted here! Also I haven't been "having a go" at anti-bin charges campaigners - I've been trying to have a debate with them on financial incentives for waste reduction, which caused some of them (yourself included) to have a go at me. Judge for yourself here: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60592

"Republicans", on the other hand, are fair game as far as I'm concerned. I find sarcasm is pretty effective as most have pretty thin skins. You have no idea of the reserves of bile I have for the provos and all their ilk, so it might be best for everyone if I just stick to the odd smart comment.

by pat c Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:13

Keep wriggling. Your failure to make any criticism of State violence speaks for itself.

As for the bin-charges, you are taking the side of the state in supporting the imposition of charges. As you well know the charges have got nothing to do with fighting pollution, it just another regressive tax.

by Joe Momma Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:23

"Your failure to make any criticism of State violence speaks for itself."

Hilarious. I see you support the principle that silence can be considered as evidence of guilt. Have you considered a career in the Department of Justice?

by Pat C Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:27

You are claiming to be a radical, you are happy to attack those who react to State violence but you decline to criticise the State. That speaks for itself.

Methinks you might be a troll.

Get your cheque from Langley this week? Or does it come via eft?

by Janus Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:30

When can we see some of these alleged smart comments Joe? Could you also clarify, possibly by the use of a smart comment using your rapier like sarcastic wit, the terror of the shinners, whether you support the GFA and if so, then support the release of these men and if not, what kind of logic (Loosely defined in your case) do you advance?

Be gentle with me Joe, my thin skin will find it difficult to maintain my composure in the face of your aggressive deployment of your hiterthto unseen wit.

by ahhh - ahhh Thu Jul 31, 2003 16:12

.

by pat c Thu Jul 31, 2003 16:24

They might have! Trotsky, Lenin and the ComIntern supported the Republican side during the Civil War.

"It is only after the yoke of the English Imperialists has been been shaken off that the struggle against the Irish Exploiters will have any chance of success. It is only after the establishment of real independence that the Class Struggle will be able to develop untrammelled by the National Question."
From the EC of the ComIntern. (Published in Workers Republic, 1st July 1922.)

by a Mon Aug 04, 2003 01:56

Lenin and trotsky where just right, thank god someone got that free state bastard collins.