Waste Management & Bin Tax Debate in Galway

by Chekov Wed Nov 12, 2003 13:36

One thing that seems to have been overlooked by those who advocate people saving money by putting their bins out less frequently than once a week is the implications for public health. If I cut down on my waste to such a point where I only need 13 collections a year, that makes a median 4 weeks between collections. So I'm supposed to have rubbish hanging around my dwelling for 4 weeks plus at a time. Hardly progressive in terms of hygiene - as it is if I miss a collection one week the place starts to stink (no garden) and, particularly in Summer, flies and various other disease vectors accumulate around the bags. This is what is actually being advocated by the Greens! Compare this to continental cities where waste is collected on a daily basis in many cities such as Paris for public health reasons.

by fingal warrior Wed Nov 12, 2003 13:59

All these debates and discussions have been had already in Dublin over the past 5 years. Quite frankly I am fucking sick and tired about hygene, bins, only every two week with a tag, do I won my bin? wankology!!

People are in prison for fighting for the working class movement. This is a battle of the working class for taxation justice not about the details of bin collection.

by seedot Wed Nov 12, 2003 16:05

I would agree with Chekov that there are public health issues relating to non-collection / less frequent collection of bins (this is not a new argument - it has been used for 125 years to ensure collection of all bins).

I am confused By Niall's proposals and would appreciate further explanation. What is the 80 paid from central taxation in the long term for? Is this to accept a flat fee and then aim to return responsibility for paying this to central taxation, but not immediately? How do you propose justifying collection of the 80eu from the citizens of Galway, since those proposing the fee believe it should be paid by central taxation? (Or is this a clever tactic to strengthen non-payment by saying it will only be for a while - hold out and we'll get it off the govt. in a bit).

How does charging for something that you want to increase send a signal through the market that this should increase? (increasing price lessens demand, in this case for recycling services, rather than increases). Or is the price differential between grey and green bins supposed to provide the market motivation?

Is this report incomplete or did Niall have proposals on the supply side as well (re. the supply of recycling services?) Zero waste management seems to offer potential here which would be more effective.

Interesting point - even though we are told that everybody in the country has been paying their bin taxes for years and it's only the spongers in Dublin that have a resistance, the PD proposal reveals that ALL bins are collected in Galway and bin tax struggle in Dublin is the first area that has had to deal with the reality of non-collection. Is this the case? (I know non-collection has started / been approved in Cork - where campaigners previously defeated it by having the right to have your bin collected proven in the Supreme Court previously. But this came after Dublin?). Would Niall support the non-collection of untagged bins and the rolling back of the public health rights which were won in the 19th Century?

BTW - thaks for the report Orla.

by Orla Ni Chomhrai Wed Nov 12, 2003 18:44

Niall made more comments, but I picked out what I felt were the most significant. He did not mention incineration in his proposal, and I don't think he mentioned it on the night. He did not mention Zero waste management either, it was Catherine Connolly who brought that up. He did make some remarks about expanding the range of products for bring centres and about ongoing education in relation to recyling.

He obviously does support bin tax. His first sentence on his proposal is

'Broadly I would welcome the proposal on the grounds that is based on the polluter pays principle.'

On the Health Issue, as the Brown bin (food, leaves, and basically things that rot) would not be tagged that would continue to be collected every 2 weeks as it is now. It was on the grounds of health and safety that the non-tagging of this bin was proposed. This might make for an interesting argument in Dublin, if bins which have rotting food are not being collected. Also if Galway implements non-collection for anyone who has not paid the basic Flat Rate I am wondering will non-collection include the brown bin. There is also the issue that certain items in the Grey Bin would have staining from food so could not be put into the clean recyclables bin, but they would still potentially attrack vermin, flies etc.

- What is the 80 paid from central taxation in the long term for? Is this to accept a flat fee and then aim to return responsibility for paying this to central taxation, but not immediately? How do you propose justifying collection of the 80eu from the citizens of Galway, since those proposing the fee believe it should be paid by central taxation? (Or is this a clever tactic to strengthen non-payment by saying it will only be for a while - hold out and we'll get it off the govt. in a bit). -

Niall wanted a phasing out of the flat rate altogether so I think the 80Euro was probably the best he thought he was going to get. He might answer this himself though. Personally I think if he can see the logic of getting funds from Central Government for some of the bin-tax I don't see the logic of looking for funds for only some of the service and not all.


- even though we are told that everybody in the country has been paying their bin taxes for years and it's only the spongers in Dublin that have a resistance, the PD proposal reveals that ALL bins are collected in Galway and bin tax struggle in Dublin is the first area that has had to deal with the reality of non-collection. Is this the case? -

Yes. I know someone who has not paid the tax in years and her bins are being collected. But they have started to send out threatening letters. One part of Nialls proposal gives the impression that he is looking for the council to deal with non-payers - this is not exactly what he is saying but would be the result of what he says.

'That proper and transparent procedures, be put in place for dealing with people who deliberately contaminate their waste, people who refuse to pay for their waste collection and people who dump illegally.'

by Terry Thu Nov 13, 2003 17:00

Whatever else the arguments are, the bottom line is that waste managment is going to be worth hundreds of millions. To suppose that the government and private waste companies are not aware of that is just ludicrous.

If we take the latest census figures for the number of households in Dublin, they reveal that there are 379,372. Rounding this to 380,000 and multiplying by 600 then we get a total of 228 million for income. The 600 figure is considered the upper ceiling for these charges according to the government. The charges are already around 500 euro in Sligo.

Various estimates are knocking around, saying the bin service is only costing for the whole city somewhere between 15 and 30 million. That still leaves an awful lot of profit.