Reclaim The Streets Dublin respond to "Robocop" trial - PRESS RELEASE

by magpie - collective Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:25

Trial of Garda Corcoran postponed (again) until March 1st due to a lack of judges currently available to hear the case.

by Very angry Mon Dec 01, 2003 17:34

You fucking sanctimonious cunts, you can go fuck yourselves.

When did RTS become an organisation that issued policy? When did it stop being about the people that were there and about those that made official decisions? When does it take it upon itself to decide the opinion for those who were injured? When did the party stop and the politicians start?

This is complete and utter bullshit, I'm very angry with the cops but you fucking pricks are unbelievable. I was injured on the RTS May Day event; I was arrested, and have appeared in court on several occasions. This is not the view of those that were arrested, it has no consultation of those directly affected by the issue. It is written by those who know best.

Not one RTS organiser was arrested, I have never received any support, financial or otherwise, from anybody connected to RTS. I have financed a very expensive trial to keep out of jail from my own pocket and they turn around and decide what is best for those that injured me, thanks RTS.

RTS is a filthy organisation and I urge everybody to take a look at it with fresh eyes. Not only have they become a core group that issues policy but they have also collaborated without prior approval in cases that have directly effected my legal situation.

SHUT RTS DOWN AND STOP THE LIES.

by Billy O'Neil Mon Dec 01, 2003 17:50

I would like to take this opportunity as another of those arrested on the day to unconditionally withdraw all support for this press release and those who have unilaterally decided on its message.

Thank You.

by dave Mon Dec 01, 2003 17:58

I dont agree with the tone of the statement (especially the notion that violence was 'authorised' - I was also there and saw a number of cops trying to restrain others from beating people) but surely those who consider themselves RTS have the right to issue a statement regarding their collective position. If you were arrested and injured and arent involved in RTS make your own statement on your position regarding the case.

Anyway this statment seems to be a notice of future RTS events anyway - no big deal.

by Steelie Mon Dec 01, 2003 18:07

1. RTS has always been an (informal) organisation, made up of the people who come to meetings and organise the events. Do you think the events just happen? Who writes the leaflets for the day? Who pays for the sound systems and all of the other stuff? RTS has every right to issue whatever press statement it wants. It does not pretend to speak for you or anybody else who may have been there and if you have a different opinion, I suggest you issue your own statement rather than ranting against RTS.

2. You have never contacted RTS seeking financial assistance for your trial. If you had, I'm sure that RTS would do whatever they could to help you.

3. Do you have any further information about RTS collaborating against you in your case? I for one would take that very seriously.

by va Mon Dec 01, 2003 18:28

RTS can do what ever it wants, you are right and it does. No consideration is given to those who are affected by what it does. An informal organisation that is motivated by street parties becomes a press mouth piece for sectarian members.

Steelie have a little quiet time and think about the place of RTS and what they are all about. They have gone so far beyond their mandate that, as I said before, they can fuck themselves.

RTS TRAITORS

by jack white - RTS (personal capacity) Mon Dec 01, 2003 20:04 greenandblackjack at yahoo dot co dot uk

Very Angry said: "Not one RTS organiser was arrested, I have never received any support, financial or otherwise, from anybody connected to RTS. I have financed a very expensive trial to keep out of jail from my own pocket and they turn around and decide what is best for those that injured me, thanks RTS."

No one involved in organising was arrested? I could say that that’s not true but then it'd be kind of implicating people wouldn't it?

There was a meeting organised after the mayday RTS where anyone arrested or beaten was invited to attend. At the meeting a solicitor which RTS were recommending people use outlined what he thought people should do. It was also stated that we'd try and support people financially (i don't think we could pay everyone’s total legal costs but I'm sure we could help with some of them). Some people wanted to do their own thing which we respected ( I think a few people wanted to make sure that they couldn't be associated with the event organisers). In the weeks and months which followed we turned up when we knew people had a day in court and we tried to keep up with what was happening. As time went on we lost touch with people, as far as I know at this stage most people have had their cases dropped, there's a couple who keep getting dragged back to court but the trials keep getting put off (and probably won't be heard until after all the cops are dealt with).

If there is anyone who needs support then please get in touch (with rts at: rtsmayday@yahoo.co.uk or with me personally at greenandblackjack@yahoo.co.uk) and we'll do what we can.


"This is not the view of those that were arrested, it has no consultation of those directly affected by the issue." No it’s not the view of those who were arrested, nor does it claim to be.


"they have also collaborated without prior approval in cases that have directly effected my legal situation."

If this is true (and I'm honestly kinda dubious)then please enlighten us so that we can make sure it doesn't happen again. Thinking about it I don't know how it could have happened or what we could have done that would fuck anybody up. Maybe we did do something, maybe it was something we didn't do, again please fill us in and we'll see what we can do about it.


"They have gone so far beyond their mandate " I honestly don't understand this one. What mandate? From who?


Do I think RTS did enough to help the people arrested or beaten on the day? Well unless 'Very Angry' and 'Billy O Neil' are totally lying I guess its obvious that we didn't. There’s no great excuse for this, obviously people who get arrested etc deserve and are entitled to our support. In our defence though I will say that we were never contacted by people looking for support who were refused it (and we've always been contactable), I'd also say that we did try and sort people out. On the mayday RTS we distributed legal advice sheets and had someone in Pearse St station trying to get everyone contact details and trying to make sure that they had legal representation. Like I said earlier a meeting was organized to make sure that everyone was looked after (anyone we knew who was arrested was invited, it also went out on Indymedia http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=5663 and some of the various lists). We also had legal advice sheets and a phone number which we gave out to people at all the events (including the May 6th one). After the way the cops attacked people on May 6th we tried to make sure that the party always finished when we were in a position of strength and in a safe area (i.e. everyone went to St.Stephan’s Green or the IFSC and dispersed together).

If we did a bad job I reckon this probably has more to do with the fact that the (ever changing) group only really gets together in the run up to an event than with any deliberate oversight. Doing something on an on going basis like support work is harder to do and easier to overlook in that kind of situation.

If you're having any kind of hassle post an RTS event then please get in touch. If we’ve lost touch with you or never even made contact then please understand that it was a case of doing the job badly rather than not trying to do it at all. For many of us RTS was the first time we were involved in organising or even in radical politics, we're not going to get everything right but we will try.

by simon (nothing to do with RTS btw) Mon Dec 01, 2003 20:11

What do you mean 'people affected by what it does'. Are you referring to your alleged arrest(through an act of your own free will I suppose)? You see Im confused - on the one hand you seem to berate RTS (whoever they are) for not being co-ordinated enough to deal and assist with your alleged predicament and then you berate them for co-ordinating themselves in a manner you claim is beyond their mandate. I havent a clue what that mandate is/was but I wonder if it as confused as your ramblings and rants.

by redflaremist - sometimes RTS, sometimes not. Mon Dec 01, 2003 20:32

Hmm. It seems that I take everything on this newswire these days with a huge pinch of salt to the point when I read a post or two, I actually dont believe the person thats saying it.

There's something not right about the tone of the two nasty responses... I really dont believe that anyone who shows up at an RTS, and specifically the Mayday 2002 RTS, would respond in such a manner.

The press statement isnt deciding or speaking for those that were injured, its the view of the RTS "collective", hardly a "core" as you call it but an extremely lose affiliation of individuals.

If you dont contact RTS through the various email addresses or the yahoo groups then how are they supposed to help you out with legal funds? If there's a thousand people at a street party then its fairly likely that a dozen or so people wont know all of them personally.

Also... I really dont think you'd show up at an RTS and then somehow coin-flip your opinion of them by calling them "a filthy organisation" and "fucking sanctimonious cunts" after cops beat you up, and RTS send out press releases.

I suppose I should take this post at face value but thinking about it and examining it I just cant. It only takes one or two Nazis (or just general whingers + anti left neurotics with too much internet time on their hands - lots of them in Ireland) in a country of 4 million to stir up a bit of shit on the Indymedia newswire. They know the people that read the wire, and with a bit of reading and intelligence it wouldnt take much to sow dischord.

I know that if I had access to an open-publishing Irish Nazi or far right newswire then I would be there day in, day out, berating them but also making subtler posts to cause groups to fight among themselves.

Sorry but I really dont believe these people posting to the newswire were arrested in May 2002. Even this morning outside the courthouse I met people who I hadnt met before who were arrested and they were very friendly & open. Same as on previous occasions.

But: please, prove me wrong. If anyone thats was beaten by cops feels hard done by then get in touch and we'll iron it out. Drop us an email, give us your contact details, and we can meet for a coffee or a pint, and then we can give you some cash towards your legal bills, even organise another fundraiser.

But if we dont hear from you, I'll just assume its a wind up.

by Aidan Tue Dec 02, 2003 17:00

The bloke who is writing this is, I suspect genuine. If a little pissed and misguided.

He previously attacked indymedia for "cutting a deal" with the Garda a few months back.

here
http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=28247&start=190

I think assuming that people who might disagree with RTS are trolls/cops/etc is somewhat arrogant redflare, and it inhibts debate.

by Steelie Tue Dec 02, 2003 17:14

Was a troll then and is a troll now.

by redflaremist Tue Dec 02, 2003 19:34

Having dealt with people over the last three years with RTS and various incidents/arrests I was saying that I didnt think the post was genuine.

Again, I would like to be proved wrong, so we'll see if "very angry" contacts RTS or not. If the post is genuine (sorry, I dont think so, and I'm not being arrogant - its just what I believe) then the person should get in touch.

As for RTS being labelled "traitors", I'm not really sure what the person is getting at. Yes, RTS calling for the cops to lose their jobs, and to drop all the charges against civilians is really "selling out" isnt it?

As I said, everything that provokes people on the newswire these days... I'm not taking it 100% genuine until I'm satisfied it is through various means & methods (personal emails, phone calls, whatever)

by Anthony Tue Dec 02, 2003 20:13

Indeed.

Being the first to comment on this press release, "Very Angry" seems to be very quick to publicly denounce the organisers of RTS. It's curious that he was so slow in accepting their public offers to give financial and legal support to those who suffered from police thuggery on May 6th.

I doubt he's a cop as he's very passionate in his ranting and the fact that he hasn't ranted on this subject in over 6 months would suggest that he's not a full-time troll. It's quite possible he did attend the street party on May 6th last year though he states in the article Aidan spotted that he was there to protest rather than attend a party. It's also possible that he was unfortunate enough to have been one of the people that the cops beat up and arrested.

However at best, he seems to be seriously confused and would probably be better off getting some counselling. In this article alone, he has implied without any evidence that RTS lied and "collaborated" with the gardaí. He calls the organisers of the street parties sanctimonius, filthy, sectarian, traitors, scum, pricks, and cunts. (Normally, such language warrrants deletion on Indymedia.) That's a diverse range of abusive insults but there's not much in the line of rational discourse.

by i&i have been wondering,... - RtS! Tue Dec 02, 2003 23:16

was there as in other cities a postal address?
or was it only email to a yahoonewsgroup?
And God is contactable, so too is my neighbour at any energy above 4decibels after ten at night, and well "you" are contactable but... how many of those who "contacted" you, did you reply to?
And why - did you reply to those you did, and not to those who didn't?
And what exactly is this ·mandate·? Whence did it derive and from whom the power?

oh sure 'tis all greatly interesting, & I thought indeed they had "disbanded" themselves actually, but I tend to prefer to note locality and (dublin) and date: "mayday2002", so does yiz still hire soundsystems? -Used to make our themselves in the old days.

{·"Anarchists support prisoners·"}

Gardaí are not public safety officials.

Anonymous indymedia users are not Named.

Snot gets up your nose and your fingers and everywhere not just under the seat.- Take a look it's all mostly dried.
watch that.

by Jimbo le poisson rouge Wed Dec 03, 2003 13:20

I'm not very angry, I feel that my initial criticisms of imc-ie were justified then and are justified now. In that tread indymedia defensiveness and active fudging confused the argument.

I can see the similarities between the position of 'very angry' and my position but I would not present it in the same manner. 'Indymedia and the RTS affair' claimed that indymedia had not acted in an impartial manner and had entered a domain it was not prepared for and should not have been in. Namely legal matters surrounding the RTS trials, it is my opinion that indymedia overstepped the bounds of independent media and became something else, a politically motivated organisation that chose who received information (i.e. police review board).

Something similar appears to be true of RTS, despite the fact that RTS is clearly political in its origins it seems to me that it is about one thing; reclaiming the streets. If the RTS organisers want to express their political views about the prison system RTS is not the correct vehicle to do it with. This whole process makes the RTS space, that is created by the 'street party', motivated towards specific political goals and takes something away from the inclusive nature of RTS. Therefore 'very angry' is correct in that a mandate, of sorts, from those who attend the parties has been breached and that RTS has abused its position. However, the claims of any premeditated collaboration do seem to be very far fetched, it is clear that the organisers of RTS value their privacy and collaboration wouldn't do them any good.

Steelie it's good to see you learnt a little French in your 'quiet time' must have been quite a challenge, however you shouldn't say nasty things about people who may not be there to defend themselves.

by very cross and tetchy Wed Dec 03, 2003 13:30

I note it's down 831,000 Euros from last year, but still RTS seem to get way too much of the Black budget in Ireland, and I didn't vote for them. What do they do with the money?

by greenandblackjack - rts, personal contribution Wed Dec 03, 2003 17:11

"despite the fact that RTS is clearly political in its origins it seems to me that it is about one thing; reclaiming the streets. If the RTS organisers want to express their political views about the prison system RTS is not the correct vehicle to do it with. This whole process makes the RTS space, that is created by the 'street party', motivated towards specific political goals and takes something away from the inclusive nature of RTS. "

i think i can understand your point on this but i don't think its a valid one. You say that it seems to you that RTS is about one thing: street parties. In fairness thats totally subjective. To me RTS is also about street parties but the manner in which they are put on clearly rejects the legal authorities, the fact that they're free is a rejection of commercialism, the way in which they are organised is a rejection of hierarchies, the timing reflects the events meaning (i.e. European Car Free Day and the May bank holiday), the encouragement to actively participate and to organise breaks down other boundaries etc etc.

Again I think the idea of a mandate is problematic. If the people attending think RTS is nothing more than a street partythen i guess we have to make more of an effort on trying to push the links but i don't think it means that we have to hold back..

jack white

by gender_class_race - egos_hierarchies_morals Wed Dec 03, 2003 18:25

Passing down judgement _ public service positions, pensions and benefits.
For me this is not RTS, its more like a smug form of road rage.

RTS _a vehicle towards specific moment.
Not hijacked by a "movement" of egos , hierarchies and morals
RTS _Make more Moments.

by barry Wed Dec 03, 2003 18:37

is very cross and tetchy on about?


jeez there's even newbie trolls now.......

by Aidan Thu Dec 04, 2003 15:25

For the last fecking time,

I'll say this slowly the indymedia collective made no decision whatsoever to control or decide who had access to any footage.

Decisions were made by the camera people (many of whom are not involved in Indymedia).

I'm not sure how many times, and ways you need to hear it before that sinks in.

by Jimbo4ever Thu Dec 04, 2003 17:01

Greenandblack makes a reasonable point, RTS are an organisation that makes a political point in an alternative way. I support that fully, I think if we had more 'happenings' of this sort it would advance and alter political thinking of the whole of society , not just a few radicalized elements. However to extend this to opinions on issues such as prisons in the capitalist state seems to be taking the political nature of the organisation too far. Turning it into a multi-issue movement does not seem to be the best way of progression for RTS.

Aidan you seem to be stuck in a hole, I didn't say anything in this tread about indymedia holding back footage. I said that 6 months ago, and I still think that imc-ie made a mistake in their handling of the 'RTS affair'. I don't think that anyone who looks at the argument in an open and intelligent manner could disagree.

by Blisset Thu Dec 04, 2003 18:18

What you did is claim indymedia as an enity behaved in a sinister manner "cut deals" with Gardaí and acted as a monoploy.

When what we did is consult the people who shot the footage, discussed how it should be used.

Most of these people wouldn't have been contactable by people for legal defence. By centralising the location of the footage some members of indymedia were able to spread the footage out on the day (where people didn't have the resources themselves to do so) and later onto the GCB

All of the people who shot the footage wanted it available to the wider media.

None of the camerapeople wanted to give it to the pearse st investigation, and the investiagtion was informed that it would have to get a warrant. Which they did not.

Some of the people wanted to give copies of the footage to the Gardaí Complaints Board (not the Gardaí). Their wishes were respected.

No one was asked whether they would give copies as part of the Gardaí's defense.

So exactly what did we do wrong? Ensure footage was available as part of legal defence, consult the camera people at all times about the manner in which it would be used. The tapes (aside from the footage shot by members of the collective) would have just gathered dust in a drawer.

Indymedia recieves occasional requests for stills, and video tapes from the media. These are handled on a case by case basis, and the person who shot it is consulted.

You accuse us of monopolising the story, but I think we've been more than fair. Care to explain (coherantly this time) what your problem is?