Residents Against Racism Protests Michael McDowell @ NCCRI Event

by paddy whack Thu Dec 16, 2004 02:01 paddywhack at netscaper dot com

Michael McDowell is allowing 17,000 non-nationals to apply for citizenship. He should be commended for this.- http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1214/citizenship.html

by Nike Tue Dec 14, 2004 19:28 bisipromise at yahoo dot com

Hi Mise, did you belief that part of community development is building client (foreigner)confidence and technical skill. This people you are talking about are demoralised and have low self esteem because of the situation they found themselve.
How can they come out where they were not accepted.?

by Tony Sun Nov 28, 2004 02:06

Quote: Surely the most noticeable non-religious fundamentalism is racism?


Thoughts: Anti-racism in practice shares similar denials of reality, conspiracy theories and radically diverge's from measured public opinion. This is depite extensive positive publicity, blessings from the media and outright endorsment from the business community that your average "racist" cannot realistically be accused of enjoying.


Quote: Despite all the evidence to the contrary, racists still beliee there is something essentially different about people with difefrent skin colour.


Thoughts: "Anti racists" tend to believe the antithesis of these arguments by stereotyping in reverse (such as talk about Phillipno nurses) to prove their point. Perhaps a more palatable bigotry - but bigotry nonetheless. I respect Martin Luther King who believed in individual worth and depised those who would trade on the colour of their skin. It is not a sentiment that I see amongst latter day "anti racists".


Quote: Closely related - the christianity to racism's judaism if you like - is cultural essentialism. Cultural essentialist fundamentalists believe all the same things as racists do, but instead of talking about 'the white race' being 'swamped', they talk about 'our unique cultural heritage' being 'swamped'. The dead giveaway is that both see the same group of people being 'swamped', by the same other group of people.



Thoughts: Whereas - "cultural relativists" are equally - beligerantly blind to the bankruptcy of cultural balkanisation with all of its tragically proven and bloodthirsty pitfalls.

I simply cannot understand why those that laud any immigration, legal or illegal, cannot see that those who come here, and pick, SPECIFICALLY, Ireland, do so because this Country is DIFFERENT to that which they have left. You cannot seriously ask them to join in and SIMULTANEOUSLY stay on the peripheries - opting out - joining in - or fighting back (take your pick) AND expect a harmonious society - SUPERIOR to the one supplanted.

by Tony Sat Nov 27, 2004 04:04

Dear me - forgot Josephs link

by Tony Sat Nov 27, 2004 03:54

Quote It is not in the interests of Irish workers, particularly unskilled one to have a deportation policy which has the effect of creating a pool of labour that does not have the same rights they do.


Do elaborate on these "rights". Are they devoid of responsibilities like adhering to immigration and permit laws for instance? Do Irish people enjoy magical rights when they travel abroad and work or do they gauge the pros and advantages and travel? Are you trying to suggest that immigrants put no thought or research into coming here or are you simply insulting their intelligence?


Quote I'm not sure what you mean by opportunities but I'd have thought migrants tended to create extra opportunities rather than restrict access to what already exists. Generally the more people you have in a location then the greater the range of things that will be available.

Ah - the great ponzi scheme. Bring in more immigrants and next thing you know, pent up demand for additional services and a need for more.... immigrants I suppose. Perhaps you can name something unavailable now - that will magically appear if we criminalise immigration controls.


Quote On 'environment' well if you simply mean 100 people living in a location puts more strain on the environment then 90 people you have a tiny point. But Ireland is hardly overcrowded, environmental problems are therefore mostly due to under regulated and polluting industry and lack of infrastructure.


But Joseph, and excuse me for being pedantic, we are not talking about 100 people, perhaps a quarter of a million in the last few years might be a little more realistic. So a tiny point by weight of your strange numbers, must now be a major and significant point.

BTW - I have heard it said that the entire population of the planet could fit on the isle of Wight. Should they underpin their immigration laws to suit?


Quote BTW all these examples also show how the racist is the bosses friend no matter how much they might go on about the working class. Racists provide a very useful distraction from the real problems.


Yes Joe. People obsessed with race have major problems and little to say about immigration.

Hiowever, the boss has infinitely more to gain from "anti-racists" as IBEC et al are only to keen to demonstrate in their elaborate "anti racism" in the workplace initiatives. A very simple question - why do you suppose they bother?

by Tony Fri Nov 26, 2004 19:58

So to Joe who believes Phillipino nurses are the saviour of our health services. Funny how this old chesnut is constantly pulled out of the bag. What percentage of total immigrants are phiilipino nurses Joe?

Of course - if one was to make a statement that Nigerians were highly featured in less savoury activity, than nursing our sick - sure all hell would break loose.

Enlightened racism but racism nonetheless.

by Tony Fri Nov 26, 2004 19:30

The same jaded arguments abound.

Anyone who opposes mass immigration with no controls is a "racist" and fixated on the skin colour of those who may immigrate.

No definition of what racism is but that would give the game away.

However, is it not patently the other way around?

Those who call for unrestricted immigration and whilst simultaneously playing the racism card are clearly segregating one race of immigrant rather than looking at the issue in it's totality.

There is nothing terribly enlightening about discussing immigration with those already unhealthily obsessed with race.

by Joe Fri Nov 26, 2004 16:14

"‘True or false? Mass immigration may be seen to have negative impact on natives’ wages, opportunities, environment, carrying capacity of services etc"

Mostly false. With some of this its very obvious, a significant proportion of heathcare workers are migrants in particular from the Phillipenes. Without these the 'carrying capacity' of the health servie, in particular nursing homes would be a lot less. The actual restrictions on 'carrying capacity' are down to government funding cuts, even in maternity.

On wages - your falling for the bosses trick on this one. Their policy it not about stopping immigration but making migrant labour insecure. The deportations and the work visas are intended to keep migrants in a state of fear of deporation which means that they can be bullied, made to work in unsafe conditions and paid at and under the minimum wage. This is a real process and here are articles reporting on it http://struggle.ws/racism/labour.html

Some quotes to illustrate
"A full-time permanent worker, a local, chatted with me, revealing that he gets £240 weekly take-home pay. He had no idea that migrant workers earn at best half that amount for doing the same work."

"No legal status, and you think you can just go in and make a complaint? You look after your own job first! Stop minding other people's business! Remember you are illegal!"

"No one seems to have a handle on the actual percentage of illegal workers staffing the low-paying and often dangerous and dirty slaughterhouse jobs, but most experts agree it is high, likely over 50% in many packing plants."

It is not in the interests of Irish workers, particularly unskilled one to have a deportation policy which has the effect of creating a pool of labour that does not have the same rights they do.

I'm not sure what you mean by opportunities but I'd have thought migrants tended to create extra opportunities rather than restrict access to what already exists. Generally the more people you have in a location then the greater the range of things that will be available.

On 'environment' well if you simply mean 100 people living in a location puts more strain on the environment then 90 people you have a tiny point. But Ireland is hardly overcrowded, environmental problems are therefore mostly due to under regulated and polluting industry and lack of infrastructure.

BTW all these examples also show how the racist is the bosses friend no matter how much they might go on about the working class. Racists provide a very useful distraction from the real problems.

by Ray Fri Nov 26, 2004 13:29

1. Comments on editorial actions are not allowed on the newswire. If you have a complaint, take it to the editorial list. (If you have a complaint about the deletions on this thread, I can save you some time by laughing at you now)
2. The actual policies followed by the department of social welfare are not in the slightest bit mysterious, nor is it difficult to find out what benefits asylum seekers are entitled to. The only people who think there needs to be a public inquiry into asylum benefits are people like you who think they can spot asylum seekers by the colour of their skin.

by Ray Fri Nov 26, 2004 13:24

The problem is, as I've said, that the anti-immigration posters on this and similar threads don't really have an argument. They don't like foreigners and, er, that's it.
Two other points - first, racist remarks _will_ be deleted immediately. If you don't like it, you can fuck off somewhere else.
Second, studies have shown that immigration benefits the host society economically, by creating more jobs, etc. As for any increased demand on services, immigration here is a less important factor than intra-national movements and population growth, and an economic boost means more money to pay for better services. Long-term carrying capacity is not an issue, as the trend in Europe is for population to fall, which I'm sure you'll welcome as it means less impact on the environment.

by gaven Fri Nov 26, 2004 13:12

Racist argument may be based at least based on a form of ‘rationale’. That one may reject it on rational reasons is also legitimate if based on rational argument.
But when it comes to a fair debate on the many fold impact on mass immigration in all it’s forms the standard reply is either ’it’s good for economy’ or else ‘that’s racist’
No in-between. People like this seem to be so in denial of their own highly polished racism that they are incapable of being dispassionate on dealing with the (very serious ) impact immigration can have. Yet they feel obliged to fight their own inner demons in public.

‘True or false? Mass immigration may be seen to have negative impact on natives’ wages, opportunities, environment, carrying capacity of services etc

Even if you don’t agree how could any balanced observer think that it was not a fiar topic for debate? Unless they A) are beneficiaries or b) ideologues fighting their own inner demons?

by Ray Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:55

The only 'arguments' people come up with are lies about immigrants getting preferential treatment from social welfare, and dark mutterings about being swamped.

by gaven Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:55

"Surely the most noticeable non-religious fundamentalism is racism"

No! -the blind neoliberal belief the benevolent impact ‘market’ outstrips any- voodoo ecomonics all spring herein.

by fhu Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:50

why do constantly equate calls for a sensible immigration debate with ‘racism’?

by Ray Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:46

Surely the most noticeable non-religious fundamentalism is racism? Despite all the evidence to the contrary, racists still beliee there is something essentially different about people with difefrent skin colour. Closely related - the christianity to racism's judaism if you like - is cultural essentialism. Cultural essentialist fundamentalists believe all the same things as racists do, but instead of talking about 'the white race' being 'swamped', they talk about 'our unique cultural heritage' being 'swamped'. The dead giveaway is that both see the same group of people being 'swamped', by the same other group of people.

by gaven Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:39

In the new age of unreason, of quackery, charlatanry, religious fundamentalism in high places and mountebanks we now have a new fundamentalism- open border fundamentalism.

In rejecting any notion as scientific and rational as cause and affect this belief refuses to see nothing but positive aspects in open borders and lenient immigration policy. It decries as heretics anyone so bold as to suggest negative impact on wages, opportunities, housing the environment or most profanely- crime. Right up there in the new age pantheon with voodoo economics it is a universal panacea, a Father for the Fatherless, a Revolution for the revolutionary, a truce for the pacifist, a dictatorship of the proletariat for the Marxist, the Anarch for the Anarchist.

Its opponents are scorned, despised, maligned and discredited. Meanwhile the business winners are having a ball! And wondering to themselves how these cultists could be sooooo naïve!

by Mark Grehan Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:25

Tony,

My point with your contact details is highlighting the fact that you attacked somebody for hiding behind a false name, when you yourself hide behind one name which may or may not be your real first name. It is cowardly. I never said that the Sun were looking to interview people get your facts straight. Again what i said was that there is a fear amongst asylum seekers that they will get deported if they start causing "trouble", it is that fear that needs to be addressed. I find it amusing that you should attack RAR, perhaps you should inform us what group you are from. You are a cowardly creature. RAR has support from the majority of the opposition parties aswell as NGO's and trade unions across the 32 counties of this island. Whatever group you find yourself involved in will not ever have that level of support. Perhaps you should come clean as to what group/s you are involved in or will you remain a coward?

by BARRY Fri Nov 19, 2004 22:28

The ethnic liason officer in Mountjoy barracks. He just happens to be.....Donal "Robo-cop" Corcoran.

Nice to see the Garda have chosen such a patient, understanding and above all compassionate man with excellent communication skills for such a posting.

I imagine any immigrants with difficulty speaking English, or who may feel intimidated in the strange environment of a police station will be put at ease by his easygoing manner and folksy Irish charm.

There is of course no truth to the rumour that the Garda appointed him to the posting because " sure hes a dark looking fella, he'll be grand".

Nor is there any truth to the equally scurrilous rumour that he will "scare the living bejasus out of them there blackies and let them know whos boss - the feckers"

by Tony Thu Nov 18, 2004 19:40

Thanks Fhu,

Point well made.

Mark,

I value my family and friends more than that and I do not see why I should provide a contact point and full name, address etc. unless there is a substantive reason to do so. I note you hide behind RAR for contact details. What would you suggest I do?

Any point I make may be argued here. Any reason for contact over and above this has sinister undertones.

To your point. No refugee can be deported for reporting a racist incident.

Is this statement right or wrong Mark or have you still no idea what a refugee is?

You say these people were reluctant to be interviewed by the MEDIA including RTE (not part of "state racism" Mark?) and the Sun (high brow stuff this).

Most people are reluctant to be interviewed by the media Mark, though God knows RAR are not. Arguably, RAR would be dead long ago without the media and their curious and unwarranted deference to an unelected group that in practice functions as little more than an unreconstructed anti-deportation fringe.

Indeed, looking at the photos above, there appears to be more media than "refugees".

Of course you probably know there is under-reporting of virtually every area of crime, particularily sexual crimes, but again, I ask the question - why is "racism" isolated as the only one worth getting hysterical about?

Ps. Enjoyed your interview in Metro this month - particularily the footnotes.

by Fhu Thu Nov 18, 2004 19:02

" why don't you put your full name on your posts, and perhaps a contact detail for yourself
"

I can’t answer for ‘Tony’ but would you not think that in any part of world it would be unwise for anyone who opposes subversives (particularly) an ordinary private citizen to make their identity (and by implication that of their family etc) known to the thuggish elements which populate both extremes. It makes perfect sense not to and who only a fool could dissagree.

by FHU Thu Nov 18, 2004 18:39

“In this country Tony you will not be a victim of a racist attack due to the fact that you are white.”


FYI Anti-white attacks happen frequently in many western multicultural societies. If you think it could never happen here I think it says something about your judgment or lack of it as the case may be.


On reluctance to report attacks neither RTE “Pravda TV’ or “the Star” ( one of the pro-globalist O’Reilly Newspaper stable) are not much less biased than the likes of their < the globalists> stooges on the ‘radical’ left.

by Pj Thu Nov 18, 2004 16:44

Protest to the' Justin Barrett RoadShow - Ireland Nazi groupies.

by Mark Grehan - Residents Against Racism Thu Nov 18, 2004 15:05 residentsagainstrascism at eircom dot net 12a Brunswick place, Dublin 2 087 7974622 or 087 6662060

Tony both RTE and the Star were trying to run stories of attacks, however people were reluctant to be interviewed by the media due to fear of being deported. It does not matter how many people were deported for reporting these issues, what does matter is that there is a belief amongst the refugee community that they will be deported for causing trouble. Unfortunately it takes a lot of time to be able to overcome fears but we are getting there. I dont think you are one person to talk about people hidding behind false names, why don't you put your full name on your posts, and perhaps a contact detail for yourself.

by Oh Dear Thu Nov 18, 2004 14:59

In this country Tony you will not be a victim of a rascist attack due to the fact that you are white. If you do not understand this point perhaps you should open your mind and allow some intelligence in.

by Tony Wed Nov 17, 2004 21:05

Quote : However being white tony you certainly wont be a victim of a rascist attack in this country


The concept that you cannot be the subject of a racist attack because you are white is a pernicious and vile denial of reality.

by Tony Wed Nov 17, 2004 19:21

Quote The NCCRI figures are in accurate due to the fear that immigrants/asylum seekers have that they will be deported for causing trouble


No name again I note.

Please divulge any case where an "asylum seeker" or immigrant was deported for reporting a "racist" incident.

For a gold star - explain how the media missed the story.

by Nonsense Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:00

The NCCRI figures are in accurate due to the fear that immigrants/asylum seekers have that they will be deported for causing trouble. It is utter nonsense to claim that you are more likely to be killed than a victim of a rascist attack. However being white tony you certainly wont be a victim of a rascist attack in this country although.

by Tony Sun Nov 14, 2004 15:26

homicide.


Main Entry: ho·mi·cide
Pronunciation: 'hä-m&-"sId, 'hO-
Function: noun
Etymology: in sense 1, from Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin homicida, from homo human being + -cida -cide; in sense 2, from Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin homicidium, from homo + -cidium -cide


1 : a person who kills another
2 : a killing of one human being by another


"death by misadventure" does not feature.

As I pointed out - you are still more likely to be murdered than an ALLEDGED victim of "racism".

Perhaps you might explain the lack of a "residents against murder" group or calls to re-educate society in the ways of not killing people.

by iosaf Sun Nov 14, 2004 14:48

we don't have homocides in Irish law.
we have -
death by misadventure.
manslaughter.
murder.
capital murder.
So I suppose all the deaths to which the Gardai were called were listed in the homocide section.

by eeekkk Sun Nov 14, 2004 03:39

if you have a problem with that set up your own website.

by Eoin Dolan Fri Nov 12, 2004 16:01

"white Irish"!? Whos to say that someone living in Carna or an Spideal,living in an irish speaking community is more "irish" than some living in Blackrock. its absurd! Mise, ta tu ag caint seafoid!

by redjade Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:50

National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism: NCCRI Report of Incidents Related to RacismMay to October 2004 http://www.nccri.com/ [ still not on the NCCRI website, but if you call them they will email it to you ] ''The data that is generated by this reporting system is primarily qualitative andindicative of key issues that need to be addressed. This report does not aim to provide a comprehensive list of every racist incident in Ireland. Indeed evidence from othercountries tend to reveal that with all such reporting systems, whether statutory or voluntary, there is likely to be significant under-reporting of incidents.'' download the .pdf file... (108k)

read it for yourself... 0.11 Mb