Inside the Mind of a Fianna Fail Voter

by Darragh Sun Sep 11, 2005 18:25 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

There is something seriously wrong when 17% of crime is not reported. What purpose could the ministers annual crime figures possibly have, when this amount of crime is not even in the Garda system??? This is my whole point, murders, gangland crime, we all know about this, even though it doesn't effect most of the citizens in the country, save the small few who choose to get involved in this type of crime.

You can bet your arse that the 17% of crime that is unreported is the type of crime that ordinary people experience day in and day out, car robbings, "petty" theft, etc.

I can oly speak about my own experiences with the Gardai, based on where I live, and based on that experience alone, I think they are useless. Maybe they are better in other stations, but in this neighbourhood, they are written off as useless and are actually afraid to go near local scum.

by iosaf Sun Sep 11, 2005 17:33

"lenient" rather than "tolerant".

"Lenient" carries and implies an authoritarian attitude and the reduction of punishment, an aspect of penal policy which is not yours as gardaí to decide. "Tolerant" would imply an attitude in keeping with diversity and the differing needs and expectations of the communities the gardaí serve, and for many would include "manners". The most interesting criticism of your colleauges is that they are "dismissive" and "rude". anyway just a thought.

by Al Sun Sep 11, 2005 06:04

In everything said there the majority backed and supported the Gardai so I dont see how that proves a point against the Gardai. In fact it goes against what people claim on this site.

Major complaint was more manpower. Thats not our doing, thats the government. Resources? Yes I want more of them as well.

The majority trust the Gardai, the majority report crime, the majority had no ill treatment by Gardai, the majority have confidence in the Gardai and the majority trusted us to detain prisoners.

You cant satisfy all the people all teh time, thats simple reality. You want us to be tougher, others want us to be lenient.

by Darragh Sat Sep 10, 2005 16:07 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/6277228?view=Eircomnet

A major survey on public attitudes to the Garda has found that 17 per cent of crimes committed in the State are not reported.

While 80 per cent of the 10,000 people surveyed were generally satisfied with their contact with gardaí, 73 per cent of respondents believed there was room for improvement in the force.

Some 74 per cent of people in the Donegal Garda division were not satisfied with how they were kept informed about an investigation when crime was reported.

The survey was carried out for An Garda Síochána by researchers Millward Brown IMS. Face-to-face interviews were done in the homes of the 10,000 respondents between January and March of this year.

One in three of those surveyed believed gardaí served the rich more than the poor. The most common suggestions for improvement were for greater manpower, more foot patrols, Garda stations to be open longer and gardaí to be friendlier.

Some 9.3 per cent of respondents said a member of the force had acted in an unacceptable way towards them in 2004, down from 12.4 per cent in the previous year.

The most common complaint by the respondents was that gardaí had acted in a disrespectful or impolite manner.

Less than 2 per cent of respondents complained that they had been harassed by gardaí or that false accusations had been made against them.

General satisfaction rates were lower across all Garda divisions in local authority housing areas.

Almost one in three, 31 per cent, of all respondents felt unsafe or very unsafe walking in their neighbourhood after dark. This figure was as high as 45 per cent in the Cork city division.

Some 16 per cent felt unsafe or very unsafe at home alone at night. This was as high as 27 per cent in the Galway west division.

Almost half, 46 per cent, of all respondents believed victims of crime got a "raw deal" from the courts.

Respondents were selected according to quotas based on age, gender and social class.

The fear of falling victim to crime has fallen in recent years, with 45 per cent of respondents saying they feared victimisation, compared with 52 per cent in a similar survey three years ago.

However, 77 per cent of respondents said they felt crime was increasing in Ireland, while more than 99 per cent described crime as a very serious, serious, or fairly serious problem.

Some 3 per cent of those interviewed had been involved in a road traffic accident last year. Of those, 73 per cent were satisfied with how the accident was investigated. This was lower than 2002 satisfaction levels of 78 per cent.

In some Garda divisions up to 53 per cent of respondents were not happy with Garda visibility, but overall levels of satisfaction in this regard reached 62 per cent.

A majority had confidence in the performance of the force in a number of key areas.

When asked if they could rely on gardaí for help if their rights were infringed, 72 per cent agreed that they could, with 16 per cent disagreeing.

When asked if people in custody would have their rights fully respected by gardaí, 70 per cent agreed that they would, with 14 per cent disagreeing.

Some 70 per cent agreed when asked if they would encourage a friend or relative to join the force, with 69 per cent saying gardaí were "fair and impartial" and 62 per cent saying the force was made up of "honest/honourable" people.

Some 5 per cent of the total respondents were non-nationals. Of these, 14 per cent of UK nationals surveyed had been the victim of racism. One in five from the EU and one in four from outside the EU had been victimised in this way.

by Al Thu Sep 08, 2005 20:31

We do Darragh, we do, but we need support from people like you that arent happy. Let your views be known to your local TD so instead of restricting us they will help us.

Of course theres those that couldnt be arsed and their attitude wont change no matter what just like any occupation but its not the majority. The majority are trying but we are losing the battle and thats no secret.

Your probable seeing Gardai that have low moral and have simple been beaten into submission by red tape and restrictions placed on them. I get pissed off with the courts and lenient sentences just like you do but at the moment I dont let it effect me. Who knows, maybe in 10 years I will be like those that your talking about.

by Darragh Thu Sep 08, 2005 20:01 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

Al,

Its very possible to have the power to do something but not to be arsed doing it because of being lazy, etc. I'm not judging you personally here, I'm judging the attitude of the Gardai that I see from my own life in the city. They couldn't give the slightest shite about I'd say 80% plus of crime that happens.

There is this very obvious complacency in the Gardai at the moment and it didn't just appear recently, its been brewing away there under the surface for a while.

If the Gardai think that they don't have the tools to do any aspect of their job, they should start making a song and a dance about it through their representative assocation the GRA, because at the moment they are just failing all of us. They are failing all of us by putting us in a position where Gardai don't even want to take a report of a crime now, not unless it involves a drugs catch or a sawn off shotgun. People who are involved in crime at this level are in it by choice. People who become victims of crime that the Gardai don't want to know about, usually have no say in the matter.

by Al Thu Sep 08, 2005 17:16

Darragh,
You cant say we have the powers and then state that nothing is being done. Give us the powers and then we can do something.

I see your point and to a certain extent it is correct. We do get pissed off arresting people and seeing them back again within a week.

In relation to prints, let me point something out. If a person gets killed in a car then there will be fingerprints all over the car. When someone steals your stereo there wont be. You can disagree with me but you are wrong, finding a sketchy fingerprint using sellotape is not the same as Garda fingerprinting. Theres whole matches and slight matches, smudging, interference also plays a part. Peoples fingerprints overlapping for a starter. You can check any informed source you want they will tell you the same thing. You cannot fingerprint a rough section, only smooth. On rough surfaces you get only part prints which are useless.

Secondly, if we get a print then what? We only have prints stored on file for people that have actually been fingerprinted and we are limited in when and how we can do that. I want a DNA database and I wont apologise for that. It would result in a drastic increase in crime solving and therefore a great reduction in crimes being commited. Imagine if people knew they would (without doubt) be caught if they left any DNA behind? How many would commit the crimes. It mightnt stop the little shits stealing your car but they would be cought.

Of course we also need tough sentences but you can see for yourself that any attempts would be apposed.

by Darragh Thu Sep 08, 2005 17:01 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

Al,

I can't agree with you when you say that the main reason why the Gardai don't finger print stolen cars is for the technical reasons that you set out above.

If someone is murdered in a car, the police don't seem to have any problems lifting prints from inside the vehicle or outside it. Just to prove the point, I tried lifting a set of my own fingerprints from my car steering wheel and had no difficulty doing so, (and I'm not a Garda, and am not a detective either!), so it brings me back to my point earlier, the only reason why the Gardai don't take the time to carry out a proper investigation when someones car is stolen, is because they just coudn't be arsed, cos this sort of crime now is not real crime, its only "petty crime". This is my whole point, is that we are completely conditioned to believe now that this sort of stuff "just happens".

The Gardai have all the powers they need, they seem to have the technology to catch criminals, but they coudln't be arsed using it unless someone has their head blown off in a gangland shooting.

I can't understand what the problem is with the Gardai, and I'm not just trying to stir shit because you are a Garda, I honestly can't get my head around their attitude when the scum in our community decide to wreak havoc on the others who live there.

The only explanation I can find for their attitude is if they are just so completely pissed off catching people and seeing them reoffend time after time, that maybe the Gardai are starting to think, "here, fuck this, why bother with this small time bullshit, I'll get promoted quicker if I get associated with a big drugs haul or apprehending a bank robber"???

Then what happens is that people decide not to bother reporting crime, and the minister comes out and says each year that crime is decreasing!!!

It is in its bollox, its a vicious circle that goes like this: Gardai don't give a shit, so people don't bother reporting crime to them, the minister says crime is down, crime continues to go up. Gardai get even more pissed off, people completely give up on reporting crime to Gardai cos they know the Gardai couldn't give a shit about it unless someone has had their head blown off, even less crime in the PULSE system now, minister is even happier now because crime figures are lower again, crime increases steadily but by this stage nobody will know about it except the victim and the criminal, and on it goes, circle them wagons there again lads...

We need a justice minister who will tell the civil liberties groups to go and FUCK OFF, and who will introduce a system of rehabiliation for those who make a life of crime for themselves.

This system should allow for someone making a mistake in their lives, or indeed several. However if they fail to take the assistance that would be offered to them under this system, (education in prison, rehabiliation to return to work, proper parenting skills, community involvement skills), then they should be put in prison and stay there until they sort themselves out.

This shite of hardened scumbags walking the streets and wreaking havoc on the community, something needs to be done, and the current justice minister is not up to doing it.

No point in tagging people when you have no intention of punishing them when they are caught, its just another needless expense then, just like the e-voting fiasco!

We don't need ASBO's, we just need ACTION.

by Al Thu Sep 08, 2005 02:00

Just to add, at this moment in time Im leaning towards FG or possible my local independent.

I havent seen either of them but Im sure they will knock in and tell me how important I am to them once election times is upon us.

by Al Sat Sep 03, 2005 13:19

The stink around what Shipsea? Theres a lot of stinks, your gonna have to be specific.

If your talking about housing then yes theres a big stink, house prices have risen by anywhere between 6 and 15% (depending on location and 1st or 2nd hand) in the past year. Now outside of the Dail who gets a 15% pay rise? This means every year more and more people are falling behind on getting a house not catching up. Why is there such growth in house prices? Is it costing 15% more to build them than it did last year? The government needs to step in and concentrate on the guy trying to get onto the property ladder rather than the builders and landlords.

For starters 1st time buyers should not have to pay any stamp duty and the grant should be brought back. Independent assessors should be able to put a ceiling on how much houses in a new estate can be sold for based on their actual worth not what the builders have collectively decided.

by Shipsea Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:19

Of all the nauseating, dissembling, manipulative and corrupt Fianna Failers, we all know who we think is the worst of them. In Village yesterday Bertie Ahern is quoted as saying there is a question about 'fact' in Eddie Hobbs' reports on Rip Off Ireland. This is classic Bertie. If there was really any question of factual error in Hobbs' reports they would be down on him like a ton of bricks. This is how Bertie gets to insinuate, in his disgustingly sneaky style, that Hobbs reports are not reliable - he stops short of actually saying that in case he ends up in court himself. But the accusation is out there.

On the other hand, he claims that the concerns that Hobbs raises are 'in line with [FF] policy'! So he gets to ride on the back of Hobbs popularity at the same time. 'You and me, Eddie, we're the same really'. Actually Bertie, this will probably be a surprise to you but, no the electorate are not actually as stupid as you clearly think. We have noticed who's been in government all this time and that there is a direct relationship between you being in office and the level of corruption, greed and incompetence with which the country is now managed. Its your ignorant vision of our country that is destroying it.

Would someone tell us where the billions of overspend actually went. Into whose pockets, exactly. Follow the money they say. Where the hell did it all go? Who's sitting pretty? Is this money in any way responsible for the incomprehensible and endless property 'boom'? Who are the developers and investors and where did they get their money from? Anyone else notice the stink around all of this?

by John R Sat Sep 03, 2005 08:37

Ive beenreading this site a few weeks. Every time I see 'Al's' name appearing over a comment my heart sinks. You know what's coming is a treacly and illogical 'debate'. The discussion always goes down hill from there. Take this thread for example. Al made a bullshit claim about the Green Party. Dan Boyle proved he was wrong. Al never admits that he gets anything wrong. He gets stupid and narky and digs himself in deeper no matter how stupid he looks. By the way Dan, if your reading this dont bother answering him. Don't make the same mistake that a lot of other people made. Dont take him seriously Al is not here to discuss anything. He's probably a PD troll set up to make a pain in the arse of himself all over Indymedia. You have no idea that you speak for the majority Al. The Garda are a minority of people doing a particular job - theyre not elected. You dont speak for anyone but yourself. You talk a lot of shite about the work other people do without knowing anything about it - as if being a Garda makes you better than everyone else. Grow up and learn to respect the people around you. If 1000 people are telling you they dont agree whats the obvious explanation?

by Al Sat Sep 03, 2005 01:59

Have to correct you right off on one point Darragh, the Gardai arent security guards. Its not our job and never has been, to stand outside private companies doors. I work in the city centre so I deal a good bit with security, we work closely but the jobs are completely different. Would you really be prepared to pay our more so there could be Gardai patroling inside shops? No, you would look at them and say "Fuck them, why cant they get their own staff" Just like you dont expect us to operate pub doors or nightclubs.

As for speaking out, to who? We arent allowed speak out, we arent allowed speak in detail about our work. We cant strike and when we had a blue flu we were told to get back to work. This country does not support Gardai. Some say thats because we are corrupt, blah blah blah but the reality is we have our hands tied behind our backs by government and civil rights people (Who are the vocal minority) and then get blamed for inaction.

Now maybe in your area the Gardai are lazy shits. it happens and I wont deny it but it could also be because like you they see that its a waste of time. These guys are getting social workers, probation reports, drug rehab and on and on and on. All these reports is added to all the crap that we have to provide and jumbled up. At the end after many, many man hours on our part the guy gets 6 months suspended. Thats frustrating to us as well and a certain amount of 'whats the point?' is going to creep in.

Likewise, you can only take so much before it starts to effect you. Im going to stop now because Im beginning to sound like its a poor-old-guards story.

However I urge you to take a look at all the Garda related threads here over the past month or two and see the comments ("Lusk was cold blooded murder" and "Guards get stabbed all the time, its your job", "the guards are the most corrupt force in the world"). Look at the comments against me and then you will see the problem. You might be part of the majority but its the minority that are shouting the loudest.

Now, I will post how I think this can be solved but its only going to cause a 1000+ insults at me.

And besides, I want to see someone else argue with Gran for a while.

by Darragh Sat Sep 03, 2005 00:56 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

Al,

Funny the timing, have just come back inside the house after 15-20 scumbags came down our street and started jumping on top of every second car that they passed. Fair play, someone rang the Gardai when they were 20 minutes up the road, but they ran away and its all history now, fill out the claim forms and whinge next time the pemium comes up, "Jasus isn't that awful Mags, looka the price of dat insurance"...

I couldn't agree more with you in one respect Al, and that is that we are a hare and hound nation, we hunt with the hounds when we feel like it and we run with the hares even quicker.

I accept that people make mistakes in life, maybe more than once, but you've been down the Bridewell, a very hefty percentage of people who are summoned there is on at least their tenth charge, and many are in their early twenties at the oldest, Its like a competition they have, who's criminal conviction sheet takes the longest to read out, "Jasus Anto, your bleedin mad you are, de Fuc*in Judge was outa breath by the time she was finished readin out ur bleedin chargesheet!!!"

To make matters worse, most of them are looking for, and are provided with, you guessed it, free legal aid!!!

What I can't understand is the call for ASBO's. This drives me nuts, you don't need an ASBO to sort out criminal behaviour. Car stealing is illegal NOW, so is damage to public property, so is damage to private property, so is damage/assault to the person.

The minister has us all talking and debating about ASBO's, probably because while we are teasing out the pros and cons of this useless legislative tool, we will take our eye of the real problem.

I think to a fairly substantial degree Al, I feel the Gardai have become a part of the problem. More and more, tasks that they used to have to undertake, the best example is illegal parking, have been replaced with private companies. Furthermore, almost every retail outlet in Dublin has private security. So we are paying for security twice all the time, once when we cover it as a substantial business overhead of a retail outlet in the cost of retail purchases, and we also fund the Garda Siochana as taxpayers.

If the Gardai can't do their jobs because of lack of resources, its about time the GRA sat down and put it to the rest of us what the problem is. The nurses could so it, they can go on strike, I know you guys don't have that option, but the least the GRA could do is let us know that the Ministers statistics on crime are an absolute load of shite.

We all know there is a problem in this country with "anti-social bahaviour", a term I hate using. The Gardai need to tell us what they are missing in their toolbox to fix this, because I don't hear much from them about not being properly resourced to do their job. Right now it looks to me like they just don't give a shit.

If you guys are being told not to stick your neck out for anyone, there is a hell of a morale problem in the garda Siochana. I wouldn't dream for a minute of becoming a Garda unless I was prepared to stick my neck out for someone every day.

The reason retail outlets need private security is because the Gardai have long since lost the battle on this front, its a case of "every shop for themselves" now in Ireland 2005.

Its got to the stage where the number of scumbags walking the streets out to rob and cause harm is so huge, that the Gardai have just abandoned this front to the private security industry. Its a case of "sorry lads, no point in rearranging the chairs, we're outa here!!!"

Maybe in Ireland 2025, we will all have private security people outside our front doors and standing beside our cars and when we here will be 60 or 70 years of age, we can look back and say "how times have changed, we didn't have any need for them in my day!!!"

Just like we are conditioned by the government to think that we live in a "low tax economy", we are even more brainwashed by them into thinking that we live in a "low crime Ireland". We need an Eddie Hobbs for crime, maybe I'll set up my own show, what would I call it, yes, "Bend Over Republic"!!! Yes, that is what I could probably call it!!!!

by AL Fri Sep 02, 2005 23:01

Actually Darragh I strongly suspect you remind her of me. For anyone who actually cares Darragh is not me. see the Rossport thread for proof.

As for crime, which view do you want? official? Actual or personal? detailed or brief?

You want Gardai to get tough and do something about crime but yet we arent given any protective equipment. No tools to do our jobs, unerstaffed and bogged down in paperwork and believe me a Garda cant sneeze without writing 15 reports on it.

We ask for powers to deal with crime and we are told to stay away from civil liberties. We ask for DNA database which could pinpoint a suspect for any crime regardless of past convictions, we are told to fuck off were Nazis.

For your info, chances of fingerprints from a car are very, very remote as most areas in a car, such as a dashboard, cant be fingerprinted. But again that goes back to DNA database.

Also, we suffer effects of crime in our home lives too so its not that we dont care its simple a reality that you are one of a hundred calls we get. I dont know where you live but it probable only has one patrol car for the entire area.

And then theres the final area, our livelyhood. Someone once told me "Dont stick your neck out for anyone no matter what, they wont help you. They will screw you first chance they get" I didnt believe this until I came across an assault, 20 witnesses, I saw it myself. I arrested the guy and he hit me, I restrained him. Guess what? 20 cameras and phones took a picture of me arresting the guy (which he did not complain about) yet not one person would be a witness in the assault. You only have to read comments here to see it. So many insults have been deleted by the admin. Depending on who you ask I am a paedophile, corrupt, wife beater or plain uneducated thug.

As for dealing with crime, I have my opinions but this site proves they wont be implemented.

As for governments, this whole thread is about people giving out blue murder about the current government yet not coming up with any viable alternative.

I would have leaned towards FG but they are in a pact with Labour now. Some areas of Labour I like however they are very weak when dealing with crime.

And like you, I believe you stay away from other people and their belongings, if you want it then go out and earn it. I said it once and I will say it again, personal responsibility is a concept that needs to come back.

by Darragh Fri Sep 02, 2005 21:49 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

Yeah, I know you'll say I sound like Hitler or someone. I'm not being unnecessarily harsh Granuile, I've all the time in the world for those who feel they need a hand in life. Everyone deserves a second chance, I'm not saying people cannot be reformed, but it seems to me that the way the state is dealing with people who have put themselves at war with society, its just not working. If the state could deal with these people who seem to spend their lives giving the rest of us in society the two fingers, maybe my insurance premium might be 300 Euro instead of 900 Euro??? Maybe a pair of Levi's might cost 30 Euro less??? Maybe I wouldn't have had to spend in the region of 5,000 Euro over the last few years in getting new drivers doors, locks, ignition barrells & keys for my car???

Why should I or anyone else carry the can for this Granuile???

I can't understand what poverty has got to do with the decision made by some to go out and wreck other peoples property at night???

Contrary to what you might think, I don't live in one of these mad estate where people think that this sort fo stuff happens here all the time, its a quiet place in that the people who live here mind their own business, but its still out of control at night, cars that are robbed here end up in another part of the city, and I doubt that this is specific to my particular area or estate.

My vote goes to the man or woman who introduces a system for deducting wages from these slim shadies, until they pay people back for the damage they do, same goes for when they are out in a public park pulling up trees to light a fire that they can drink around...

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about, i.e. the dilution of the concept of crime. The fact that I take serious exception to this sort of shite makes you think I'm like Hitler or Stalin or some mad freak! We have become accustomed to thinking that "this is allright, its grand, sure aren't we insured against all this stuff anyway"??? Bollox I say, I'm sick of paying for it...

by Granuaille Fri Sep 02, 2005 21:24

Most people had/have parents who worked hard. Nothing unusual there. You remind me of someone else...trying to think who.

by Darragh Fri Sep 02, 2005 21:13 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

You see Granuile, I want our politicans to sort it out, because that is why we pay them stupid amounts of money in salary every year, to run the country.

But in terms of the current government or the opposition, there isn't anyone up to sorting out these type of problems, because they are afraid to. I don't accept that crime is linked to poverty. I don't come from a wealthy background, I had good parents who worked hard to bring me up well, and one key thing that I learnt was that you don't interfere with what isn't yours, if you need it, go out and earn it.

I'm pissed off hearing people apologise for these little scumbags, the system is simply incapable of dealing with them. As I said, above, I didn't come from a wealthy background but my parents were not afraid of hard work and I was taught respect, hence why I'm not out causing hardship for the rest of the community...

by Granuaille Fri Sep 02, 2005 21:03

So what are you going to do about it? If you think other people are failing you, why not do something yourself? You live in an area of high crime. It 's a fact that crime is related to poverty. That knowledge doesnt make it any less angering when you are the victim and nobody would deny you that. At some point, though, you have to ask yourself why this is happening and do something about causes - otherwise it will never stop. The temptation to punish without looking behind the crime is huge. Ive been a victim of crime too.
What is your alternative to the current system and what are you going to do to change things?

by Darragh Fri Sep 02, 2005 21:01 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

Yeah folks, there is a challenge for any of you. Go down to the Bridewell any morning and see how well the government is doing on crime, maybe this is where Bertie got his last election slogan from, "A lot done, more to do"... I kid you not, only 5 minutes walk from The millenimum Bridge, forget Eddie Hobbs pointing out where they are blowing your hard earned tax, you would be definitely be changing your voting habits on the next occasion if you spent an hour down here...

by Darragh Fri Sep 02, 2005 20:44 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

Folks,

I know the GP have policies, you will find these policies on any website for the political parties. The problem is that none of our political parties have any problem coming up with convincing policies. The problem is that they seem to have a major problem implementing them.

There is no system of measurement when it comes to evaluating how well our political leaders are putting their policies into place. Its like their Dail expenses, no acountability.

My problem is that I've had enough of hot air and policies and political bullshit, I don't see any change for the better on any front, and that's why I'm Disillusioned.

by Darragh Fri Sep 02, 2005 20:38 dararagh25 at hotmail dot com

I can't agree with you when you say we don't have a crime problem. What is happening is that we are being brainwashed into thinking that the majority of crimes are not actually crimes at all, or at worst are petty crimes. Look at what joyriding, skanger drinking (which usually ends in joyriding where I live), intimidation, damage to public/private property, etc, is called now, its not crime anymore, its "anti-social behaviour".

Next time you see a crowd of slim shadies pulling down a tree in your local park or trying to set fire to your nearest GAA changing room, give the Gardai a call and see how long it takes them to arrive and do something about it???

I've lost count of how many times I've done it and I've yet to see a Garda actually turning up to investigate.

On four occasions in the last 2 years I've had someone trying to rob my car. On 4 occasions I reported it to the Gardai. the response on two occasions was "Ah sure the good weather brings them out". Fuck the good weather, why aren't you guys lifting fingerprints off my car with a view to finding out who has set me back 1500 Euro???

Crime in the community is out of control, the Guards don't give a fuck, and all we can hear about it is , "If I'm elected I'll sort it out, I'll set up a committee",or in the case of the current incumbent, "I think I'll introduce ASBO's"!!! I don't want ASBO's, I don't want committes, I want whoever is running amok in my community to be held to account, whatever damage they do, I want it put right. We aren't even at the apprehension stage at the moment, never minding making someone account for it and put right the damage they do IF they are caught.

What I want as a citizen, is the problem SORTED, I don't want "reform" I don't want "ASBO's", or any more political bullshit.

Compare a trip into Henry Street today to a trip into Henry Street 20 years ago. Today in Henry Street, every single retail outlet has numerous security guards, the bigger stores must have a dozen or more. The same fortress mindset applies to pubs. I imagine a private security company like Securicor charges 40K a year to provide this service to a retailer. Who do you think is paying for all this extra expense, all because sucessive Justice Ministers sat on their arses and did nothing while the skangers of the city ran rings around them???

We are all conditioned now to think that we live in a SAFE country. Yes, the chances of us being shot dead in our beds at night might be slim, but we are paying for crime left right and centre, every time you buy a pair of jeans in Henry Street, or pay your motor insurance, you are paying through your nose for crime.

Crime that every politican say they care about, but none have the balls to sort out.

Al, I'd be interested in your opinion on this one, I'm not against the Gardai, but I think they have thrown the towel in a long time ago on any type of crime that does not involve either a murder charge or over 100,000 Euro worth of drugs being seized.

I doubt very much that the majority of Gardai even bother to register on PULSE most of the walk in complaints that they receive, so its no wonder that crime is "down". Its not down, its just not reported because most people know they are wasting their time reporting it, or Gardai don't register the "anti-social" problems that they receive.

I live in an area that you wouldn't think has these kind of problems, (not Foxrock or anywhere fancy), but there isn't a week that a car isn't robbed within my estate, usually found burnt out and upside down in one particular estate in the Tallaght area the next morning.

I'm not fanatical about crime, but I don't believe the absolute spin that is fed to us every year by the Garda crime statistics, OK, I might not get shot when I walk out the door, but I see it every day where I live, and there is no way that I could agree that we do not have a problem with crime in this country.

Don't even get me started on the money wasted by the governent running the prison service trying to "reform" the little shits that do actually get caught! A worthwhile exercise for any sceptic, is to take a trip down to the District Court (courts 40-44) in the Bridewell any morning. When the judge asks for previous criminal history, the offender usually has been causing serious problems where they live for years, the whole system that deals with these kind of offenders is simply dysfunctional, I laugh when I see it down in the Bridewell, its like some kind of comedy show.

by Granuaille Fri Sep 02, 2005 20:37

...I'm a person. 'Consuming' is just one aspect of what I do.

by Al Fri Sep 02, 2005 19:53

had a good look around the website Dan, it sounds like you havent.

I quoted your own parties primary goals, werent you aware of these goals?

Under campaigns I see EPA, biofuels, joining Luas lines, salmon stock, Renewable energy, Parental leave, GMO foods and clean transport. Doesnt mention how you will reach any of your goals especially parental leave. Will it be paid leave? Upto what childs age can it be taken? Who will pay for it and how? Both parents? Whats your stance on unmarried fathers?

Even your party leader admits what I have said during his speech in Cork on the 14th May. Considering your in Cork I presume you heard it.

Put it simple Dan, Im a consumer. You have to sell me your ideas, goals and methods, you want to be elected then convince me of your goals.

If anything I have been persuaded by Darragh's arguement. Seems to me he is talking about a party I could vote for.

Now Dan, if you (as a politician) want to discuss the Green party with me (as a voter) then be prepared for critisism and have some answers ready because I will ask questions about matters that concern me.

by Dan Boyle - Green Party Fri Sep 02, 2005 17:01 dboyle at oireachtas dot ie

Are you serious? Have you seen the home page of www.greenparty.ie Between press releases, ongoing campaigns and highlighted policy positions there are 17 positions pinpointed in as diverse areas as taxation, enterprise, social policy, education, foreign affairs, the environment, transport, health, child care, energy and the marine. That's just the first page.

by Not worthy Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:01

"My comment is correct "

Now there's a surprise know-it-Al

by Al Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:13

I dont really want to get into this topic again but seeing as a post is directed at me I will respond.

This is from the Greens own website:

"The Green Party/Comhaontas Glas adopted at its foundation these seven principles by consensus:
1. The impact of society on the environment should not be ecologically disruptive.
2. Conservation of resources is vital to a sustainable society.
3. As caretakers of the Earth, we have the responsibility to pass it on in a fit and healthy state.
4. The need for world peace overrides national and commercial interests.
5. The poverty of two-thirds of the world's family demands a redistribution of the world's resources.
6. Society should be guided by self-reliance and co-operation at all levels.
7. All political, social and economic decisions should be taken at the lowest effective level."

They also speak about distribution of wealth, 3rd world hunger and global wars. Not a single mention of health or crime. They mention housing but it just states "We are against overcrowding of cities". Theuir top 3 priorities are invironment based. No insight, no mention of how they will bring these things into being. Im not stating these arent worthy goals but wihtout outlining a realistic way to achieve the goals they are just slogans. My comment is correct and if they do have policies why isnt my local rep telling me about them?

Apologies Darragh/Gran.

by Granuaille Fri Sep 02, 2005 09:50

Agree with the last post that the Green Party is about far more than some flowery notion of preserving butterflies. Their policies are actually about sharing resources optimally which is EXACTLY what government is supposed to be all about. In fact, it is very likely that whether anyone wants to believe it now or not, we will all be turning urgently to the Greens to know how to do it when the environmental shit hits the fan - any day now. The Greens have been charicatured in an ignorant and facile way for too long. They are hopeless at presenting themselves and their policies though.

I dont understand your preoccupation with crime, Darragh. Sure we need to deal with it effectively - both as to what causes it and how to punish it. Generating fear of crime is unnecessary given the actual levels. We're a very safe country, crimewise, in fact. Not a hanging and flogging person myself and in any case there is a direct correlation between poverty and crime.

My policy with regard to FF/FG is basically, vote for anyone but do not vote for them! They will as you point out, always put people second to business.

by ZXB Fri Sep 02, 2005 02:38

"Greens? Again, how will a party solely dedicated to nature really run an economy? How do they feel about crime and health? how about education? No real plans. Just slogans based on whats popular"

Al, I cant believe you actually said that. have you ever even looked at their policies? Only interested in the environment? You are seriously mistaken.

And no, im not a green actually. Im in the labour party. But you are extremely misinformed about the green party. Their policies are all up on their website -i suggest you take a look at it and get your facts in order.

by Darragh Fri Sep 02, 2005 01:18 darragh25@hotmail.com

Hi Granuaille.

I had this idea about a clean slate approach to a new government, I think the idea kind of fell on me bacause often when governments and alternative governments are discussed, all sort of words pop up like left wing, right ring, coalitions, strategic alliences, and all sorts of political bullshit.

What I was trying to throw out there, was to try to crete an almost sterile discussion environment where this type of mindset can be put aside for a few minutes, and we could talk about what we would create if we tried to build from scratch, a theoretically ideal government. I wouldn't vote for Pat Rabbitte or Enda Kenny to get rid of the FF/PD coalition, because I think these politicians lack backbone.

They shite on about whatever the topic of the day is, but does anything change, or would it if these people were in government???

I can only start the discussion by taking the floor here and saying what I would like from the government, if they ever had it in their power to provide it:

1) Crime. I hate crime, especially crime that affects me directly, like for example someone trying to steal my car or rob my house. I would want my ideal and perfect government to force someone who damages my car by trying to steal it, or my house if they broke into it, to fully compensate me for the damage they did. If they can't pay, I want their assets seized and sold, or for them to stay in prison and do forced labour until they can pay me for the damage they did. I couldn't give a shit about ASBO's, or The Irish Council for Civil Liberties, I didn't vote for them at the last election. I mind my own business as a citizen, I don't interfere with what doesn't belong to me, all I ask is the same.

2) I want to be living in a country where people in governent are held to account in everything that they do. If someone in government goes off and blows 40 odd milion on useless voting machines, I expect the person to be fired.

Most importantly, I would want my government to treat the needs of vested interests SECOND to the needs of the citizen, and to be public and up front about this. Publicans, developers, RGDATA, taxi's, Shell, I want my government to not be in these guys pockets.

I could go on and on, but I only want to start the discussion!

by Granuaille Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:18

When I posted the story I was hoping that somebody would hear the call. Like you Id love to see this government evaporate - never to trouble us again. The Fianna Fail stranglehold on Irish politics is bloody awful.
Dont really agree the others are all worse. They may not be better but the idea they are unelectable is one of Fianna Fail's best propaganda successes and exactly what keeps them nearly permanently in power. Also when labour and others do get a crack at the whip, they are given a very hard time by the (mainly FF) press and people dont seem to notice that. The main problem with FF is the corruption - we have to punish them hard for that. A country-wide resistance to FF movement is needed! We need banners, car stickers, badges - flags! Anyone else out there?

by Darragh Thu Sep 01, 2005 04:02 darragh25 at hotmail dot com

I was thinking about something recently with all the discussion on the Rossport 5, and also on Rip Off Republic.

I think the level of dissatisfaction out there at the moment with this government is so high, its the topic of conversation on the street now, I was thinking what would happen if there was a general election next week, what would the people say???

Its all very well saying that the current administration is utterly useless, but speaking for myself here, I'd be afraid to vote for any other party, FG, Labour, Greens, SF, for fear I'd only be making matters substantially worse. Look at the topics that people are unhappy with, its been so long since I've seen Enda Kenny on the TV, I've forgotten what he looks like, and all our TD's take a minimistic view of their jobs, it is obvious they are in it for the salary, expenses and their own ego.

I think there is so much dissatisfaction out there that if we had a general election in the morning and a credible alternative for a government (not like the last time where we had the opposition offering to compensate anyone who would vote for them, Eircom shareholders, Taxi drivers, people who fell out of the wrong side the their beds).

I men a real credible government, like a government that consisted of people like ourselves, who know what the cost of living is, who would not be afraid to get a decent deal for the Irish people when dealing with our state assets.

People who would not be afraid to bring back chain gangs (forget about ASBO's!), for little shitheads that go around robbing cars and making life unbearable for people in their community.

People who would stand up to the vested interests all over this country, RGDATA, The Insurance Federation of Ireland, IBEC, the multinationals, land developers, etc, and say out loud and clear, "you guys didn't elect us, so you come second, we might be able to help you, but we have to make sure we do the right thing by the people who put us here first"

What I'm asking is, if we were to design a new government from the bottom up, a clean sheet approach, (forget about coalitions with Labour, FG, the PD's and SF and all of that shite. Say we wanted to design a new government, a new party (I dont even like using the word party because even that word has been tainted by the politics in this country), say a new organisation, what would we want it to be like, what ethos would we want it to have??? What would be our program for government??? What kind of people would we want to be attracting to our new organisation??? How would we improve the quality of life of Irish people??? How would we make sure that we did what we said we would do, and improve the quality of life for people who live here???

I'd love some discussion on this, because I reckon that the level of unhappiness with the government is so high out there, that if someone could join up the dots and harness this, give it an identity, a set of beliefs, a whole new movement could be created, and take this incompetent bunch of clowns off their pedestal like a bolt of lightening out of the blue!

by Al Mon Aug 15, 2005 14:50

You attacked me for my response to FT therefore I am highlighting his comments. He is the one that wants neither to pay rent or a mortgage. Which is unreasonable and niave.

Sure, I agree that house prices are too high and I agree that rent follows with that. BUt 100% mortgages are no different to having an 80% or 50% mortgage and you ignore the shared ownership scheme which I specificaly mentioned. with 100% mortgages you pay more interest but you arent borrowing more than you can repay by selling the house. Now 120% mortgages, thats an area that people should avoid like the plague.

As for job importance, stockbrokers, while you believe dont contribute to society, have extensive 3rd level educations and control, as you agree, millions in shares and stocks. therefore the responsibility brings the reward. A factory worker cannot make any hige impact by be failing to do his duties and neither is a 3rd level education required. BTW, why are factory workers so important? Is making barbie dolls really result in a better world?
In other words, if you pay them all the same then why would people take the more demanding jobs or dangerous jobs? If the money was the same to say, be a receptionist as it is for being a bin collector or a doctor which would be chosen? The bin collector and doctor both work terrible hours. the doctor has to deal with death all the time and has to have 7 years education, the bin collector deals with garbage. The receptionist works 9 to 5 Monday to Friday in an air conditioned area. Pay reflects the education and the task. Because you think a factory worker contrributes more to society than a stockbroker doesnt make it so, in fact by your own words, they control the economics of the world.

I realise that having free education does not mean every person can avail of it however there are night classes and home study courses. If your really unhappy in your work then do what it takes to change. In this world people have forgotten personal responsibility, deciding that the world owes them as apposed to making it for themselves. My view doesnt come from a silver spoon, it comes from watching my parents work like dogs and save every penny so they could better themselves and provide for their children. My father worked 2 jobs and every hour god sent, he didnt like it but he could see reality and knewing moaning alone wasnt going to change it so he did what was neccesary. More people need to adopt this approach.

by Granuaille Mon Aug 15, 2005 05:27

...impenetrable complacency.

You either dont understand other people's comments or fail to read them thoroughly - you need to be more careful. Where did I say I didnt want to pay rent?

Im in a fantasy world? Did I imagine the currency markets? Does RTZ not exist? Did a child not die in Garda custody? Are five men in prison as we speak for trying to defend their homes from yet another corporate behemoth intent on crushing anything that gets in their way? Did the government give Shell a virtual present of some of our most valuable resources? There are hundreds of examples. You consistently ingnore most of what is said to you and won't discuss anything but the narrow subject of whether or not to have a mortgage.

Again, a substantial number of people will never earn enough to save for a mortgage. 100% mortgages are a grossly irresponsible idea. Unless you are very comfortably off, you just shouldnt have one. But if you're very comfortably off, you won't need a 100% mortgage! I know several auctioneers who would tell you the same thing. Rent needs to be affordable for everyone. Why should an assembly line worker be forced to live their lives out in some grim and depressing place because they cant afford the rent for a more pleasant home? I dont see that a stockbroker, for example, deserves to be rewarded more for their work than anyone else. That's also what FT is driving at, I think. The system rewards the least productive, most parasitic people with the most amount of money. A roof over one's head is as fundamental as having air to breathe. Along with other fundamentals I dont believe it should be subject to speculation and profiteering. That's a very different thing from saying that everyone shouldnt contribute towards these things, I beleive we should. If you want to play a part in the property game, that's a matter for you but your personal decision is not more legitimate than doing otherwise. Obviously, having a mortgage has made you feel great about yourself. Well bully for you Al. Yours is probably one of the few professions left where people can feel smug about having a job for life. Either way, we're mostly (owners and tennants alike) at the mercy of the property speculators and the markets whether we like to think so or not. In this system, all your hard work and savings can go out of the window in a very short space of time because of the calculations and manouverings of a handful of twenty- sommthing year olds on the New York stock exchange - and you never even get to know why our how it happened. Did you know that a single wealthy man broke the economy of the United Kingdom on black Wednesday back in 1987? He made billions out of it. And even that man, George Soros, has a written extensively to say that our economic system is irresponsible.
And about the underpants, I didnt really want to know...!

by Al Sun Aug 14, 2005 18:11

"It is you who is dictating what people should do with your patronising assessment of a complete strangers financial circumstances" You are doing that for millions of people in this country already.

Im not dicating but what is it you want?

A, You dont want to pay rent

B, you dont want a mortgage

So I gave you C, a council house. But still your not happy.

FT bitches about the price of his rent and then states that he doesnt want to own a house. I showed that FT's situation is of his own doing. He is paying more rent than he has to, he can get a mortgage and he can buy a house with this mortgage. the mortgage repayments will be less than the rent he is currently paying. If FT remians in the situation he is in now then its his own fault.

Wake up, smell the coffee and come join us in the real world. "the bubble will burst" the doomsayers comment for the past 10 years. well I got news for you, at least Im not pissing money down a drain. Im paying less than FT and I will actually own the property. FT is paying amortgage already, someone elses. So spare me, I gave you answers and what do i get back? Pure fantasy world crap. Stop whining and do something about it. If FT wont help himself then why should I bother?

BTW, if stockbrokers are a waste of space then what are probation officers?

Anc to answer your personal questions.

1. No im not married Im single
2. yes I have a child
3. I pay my mortgage on a single house income
4. Usually black

by Granuaille Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:37

Have you actually read what Ive said above? ‘Nobody begrudges you your mortgage’. It is you who is dictating what people should do with your patronising assessment of a complete strangers financial circumstances. It is you who is determined that we MUST be property owners. It is you who is implying that anyone who sees it differently or reckons the financial commitments are too risky must be scum. Do you have children? Are you married? Is your wife/partner contributing? What colour are your underpants?

You cannot deny that our society puts unequal and discriminatory values on the work that each person does. In this ‘real world’ the back-breaking work of a farmer on a small-farm, providing one of the most essential things we need, will ensure that he or she is guaranteed a life of constant anxiety and exhaustion. On the other hand, you can be something really useful like a stockbroker and make a fortune gambling on hypothetical values attributed to goods, services or even on the likely future value of currency. In a job like that you contribute sweet fanny adams to your community - in fact you are a parasite. More than that, because so much of our economy is vulnerable to this idiotic speculating, these people can fuck up the entire system in a single day resulting in massive job losses for millions of entirely innocent, hardworking people. Sometimes it is just certain sections of the economy that are affected. Years of hardship ensue for people in all walks of life and you know what? The papers will never really tell it like it is because they are in league with the very people who make the most out of this grossly inequitable system. The Irish Times, Independent, Examiner et al are all stuffed with photographs of earnest looking young men and women writing, without a trace of irony, about how the Tourist Board, for example is not marketing the ‘product’ very well. The ‘product’ of course, is our country and its people. In this system, we are now completely devoid of our humanity and exist for no other reason than for the making of profit by an elite. I don’t doubt that you are genuine about your profession but whether you can admit it or not, along with everything else in our country, it has been co-opted into maintaining this scenario on behalf of the corporations we serve.

Let’s leave aside your imperative that we must all be property owners. When the property bubble bursts Al, which it will definitely do sooner or later, where will FT’s extra 250E get him then? If you have children you especially have to make that sort of responsible assessment. Because if interest rates go to say 7 or 8% - which is increasingly likely, then FT and his mortgage, along with thousands of other people will go to the wall. The repossessions have already started in the UK. Oil prices are now going sharply up, the USA is in a massive deficit to the tune of trillions of dollars. If, as some are predicting, the ‘confidence’ of the same parasitic external investors referred to above in the US is lost and they start to pull out, guess what? The world economy will crash and our national ‘product’ will go instantly and completely to the wall where we will all at least be able to have a nice chat with FT – We can only hope that he will avoid the temptation to use words like ‘I’, ‘told’ ‘you’ and ‘so’. We have no security against this – no manufacturing base, no agricultural base to speak of any more and are dependent now to such an extent on the virtually useless ‘services sector’ that we are, along with most small countries, going to catch a very bad cold indeed . Add to all of the above that we are now on the brink of another world war which is already costing its protagonists billions of dollars. The UK and the US are hurting very badly. Now the speculators in Dublin and their sycophantic, traitor politicians don’t want to spoil the orgy of mutual masturbating they’ve been enjoying these recent years (please forgive the vulgarity – sometimes you have to use the most appropriate metaphor). They are trying to insure against the above scenario by selling out lock stock and barrel: Knock-down sale, everybody! Country to go – everything and everyone included! Which industries are up for a little bargain hunting? There might be an opportunity there! Pharmaceuticals, Incinerators, Arms Systems, Foreign Property Speculators, Rio Tinto fucking Zinc for God’s sake - the most rapacious organisation on the planet, arguably. Shell Oil circling like a vulture in the West of Ireland. And people like you Al are exactly what they need in order to be able to go on getting away with all of this. Your complete and utter faith in the system that is raping you, is the fuel for this engine. You play your obedient and trusting part in all this beautifully - suppressing peaceful demonstrations and protests, enforcing unjust laws against innocent people and ensuring the status quo by violent means if necessary. Fitting up evidence against innocent men and women. Children and other people dying in Garda custody. No, not every guard means to be corrupt and most would prefer not to be, but you signed up for all this and don’t ask us to look the other way – you are connected to this corruption whether you like it or not. It is for you to decide how long you can reasonably say your conscience is clear. But while you go on pretending nothing is wrong, you will have to understand the impatience and disgust of those who are paying the price of your impenetrable complacency.

Voting: I told ya again and again! Im going to vote for the best independent TD available – I’m not going to vote for any bloody ‘party’.

Now you can go back to your finger sums and calculations for the long-suffering FT. Your innocence is touching really and in a funny way Id almost be sorry to see that happy little fug you live in move off. You’d be so upset to realise what is actually going on.

by Al Sun Aug 14, 2005 06:43

what is it either of you want? Is it an apology from me? For what? Owning my own home? That seems to be the basis for your complaints and the evidence that Im a henchman and corrupt git.

Now, FT, please explain. If you dont want to pay rent but dont want to own your own home exactly what is it you want? Is it a free house? Because having a child and earning less than 1440 per month means you will qualify for a council house. Im presuming you only have one child because that is all you mention.

Gran,
Last time I checked my PC wasn't edible. If I couldnt afford to out food on the table then I would not be spending money on PC's, TV's or whatever else non essential items I have.

But considering you are both either unable or unwilling to look at reality I have decided to help, Good aul uncle Al.

For starters heres some rental accomodation thats cheaper than what your paying now and even has a nice shiny new cooker.
2 bedroom for 900 per month:
http://www.findahome.ie/letting/showProp.asp?id=135410

Hers a brand new, fully furnished property for 895 per month. Again 2 bedrooms.
http://www.findahome.ie/letting/showProp.asp?id=156068

Hows that for starters? If theres anything that doesnt suit you can feel free to let me know and I will tailer make some packages.

However if you decide that maybe, just maybe, buying your won home would be better both now and in the future then heres some links to use:
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=84&deptid=7&dpageid=245 (this is the shared ownership scheme)

I took the liberty of underestimating your income to get the ball rolling and based on the mortgage they will give you I found some property for sale:
http://www2.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=218096&p=5&rt=search&searchlist=

http://www2.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=244023&p=2&rt=search&searchlist=

http://www2.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=242846&p=3&rt=search&searchlist=

Personally I think 3 is the nicest but then again, 1 is the cheapest. the mortgage on the maximum loan available would be somewhere between 800 and 900 per month so thats an extra 250 at least for food. Yippee for uncle Al as he saves the day.

Now, either join the rest of us in the real world and accept you get nothing for free or live in dream world, moan and ultimately, remain in the same situation for the rest of your life.

And finally, any chance either of you will tell me what party are going to grant free houses for everyone?

by FT Sat Aug 13, 2005 15:26

I've given up that oul' food lark a long time ago - they wouldn't pass the supermarket low cost operations onto us. Nothing like the smell of sewage from Irishtown and the sight of squad-cars to take your mind off it though.

by Granuaille Sat Aug 13, 2005 13:01

Hear that, FT, you go just go and starve!

by fellow-traveller Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:44

It should be obvious that I think both rent and mortages are criminal - where would they be if it wasn't for garda henchmen to stop us steppin' out of line?

Because i pay the extortion known as rent, I can't afford that knkown as mortgage - it's not rocket science (maybe that metaphor has had its day though).

by Al Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:36

I see, fellow traveller doesnt like paying rent but doesnt want to pay a mortgage either. 'Free houses to all' is the cry. Now I see so clearly.

Gran,
You are obviously beaten if all you can do is attempt smart remarks. Simple truth is that fellow traveller has a decent job which pays a decent salary. Did he/she deny this at any stage? Nope.

Yes, if you want to own you own home then you do have to give up some luxeries. Thats a fact of life,. Its been like that for more than the life if the present government. So are you going to join us in the real world or just moan?

by Granuaille Sat Aug 13, 2005 09:38

Fellow Traveller - sell your PC immediately and put the proceeds towards your rent! Own anything else that might be considered a luxury? CD player? Bycycle? How dare you own such things! Sell them all! That'll shut you up about the reality of living in poverty. And dont show your face around here unless you are interestingly and convincingly poor, OK!?
Corruption is off the point???? Are you quite sure, Al? Simplest thing to say here is that you make my case infinitely better than I ever could myself.

by fellow-traveller Sat Aug 13, 2005 07:48

Did you not learn about landlords in history Al? What have many Irish become with their buying up of eastern Europe as well?

Some, like A the gard and landlords and builders and many farmers, know which side their bread is butter on. It's in their self-interest to keep in power the corrupt and incompetent.

I object to me and my partner having to pay 80% of our income every week to a landlord who has too much and does very little for it. By draining us of our hard-earned means of subsistence, he is evidence, if any were needed, that property is theft.

We don’t even want to own our own home really. I think rent is a monthly crime far worse than extortion or protection rackets.

Wealth should not be distributed from the poor to the rich. They don’t need it as much as the poor. I would vote for a party with that core principle.

FF/PD/FF/Lab give tax amnesties and tax breaks, and this government organised the SSIAs, another great robbery of the poor.

Our democracy is only tokenistic anyway where big companies buy favours and contribute to party coffers to try to buy votes as well. The average ‘punter’ is screwed day in day out by the average plonker.

We get consolation in the everyday warmth of people, and the beauty of nature – though that’s seriously under threat with the concreting over of the whole island by those slíbhíns and raspeens, lachikos and goms.

Not surprised that some home-owners say I’m alright Jack pull away the ladder – sure didn’t the greasy fumblers do the same about the six counties, and still do.

by Al Sat Aug 13, 2005 02:16

The corruption is a bit off topic but I will answer it.

First off, Garda corruption is very rare. people dont buy that but as a person workign within the occupation I can state that. Its not 0%, I wont deny it happens but when it is expossed those that have commited it are ousted. However Gardai get the same internal treatment as those that face criminal proceedings. They are innocent until proven guilty and therefore the fact that a Gardai stay within the occupation after an allegation is seen as protecting each other and Gardai getting away with it. thats not the case, the simple fact is internal discipline takes time just like a court case does. Once a decision is reached they will be punished. Of course it depends on teh nature and how serious it was, criminal proceedings may very well be included. Im sure Donegal will result in a few criminal proseuctions and sentences.

I will not however apologise. I have done nothing wrong therefore the apology should not be from me. If I wrong a person i will apologise however I have not done so. I will say that those wronged deserve an apology at the least, a big cheque wouldnt go astray either. But ultimately its not good for moral to have such things happen, as a Garda I find it hard to take personal insults because someone in the same occupation did something wrong, the fact I never even met them and agree with the outcry doesnt seem to make a difference.

Now, For the pay. It doesnt matter how long you are a Garda, without promotion you are never going to be rich. True if you get to the top or thereabouts you will be generously paid however thats the same in any occupation. The best paid bin-man, librarian, civil servant or burger flipper is well paid as well.
also remember that the majority of Gardai will never be promoted. There is a higher chance I will retire with the same rank as I have now. And again I will offer no apology, why shouldnt I try to provide for my family as best I can? If people think we have such a great job then pick up an application and apply.


Finally, fellow traveller doesnt state he cannot afford food or even that he is financially crippled. Travellor makes no comment about incomes but points out that the landlord, the landlord not traveller could easily afford to buy a home. I was merely pointing out that based on a history of paying so much rent (the fact that they can manage to pay so much) should be a great factor in obtaining a mortgage.

In fact, I can take of a lot of areas that would not demand such high rent in the first place. Add the fact the traveller is posting on the internet using a PC I can assume that he or she has some disposible income as no matter what way you look at it that costs money. Renting or paying a mortgage, unless you are rich then you are going to struggle.

Do I like this? Of course not considering Im in the same boat but life is tough, always has been and always will be. I wish houses were cheaper, I wish the electricity bill was cheaper too. I wish food was a damn site cheaper and most of all I wish the millions the celtic tiger brought in went to the right places but when all is said and done who will change this? My comments are based on the fact that I can see no decent party, they will all screw me one way or the other.

And the reason I voted FF was because of the candidate not the party. I found myself unemployed a few years ago and I was getting no where with the dole office (For the simple reason that having never been unemployed before I didnt know the system inside out) when finally my local TD intervened and helped me. As a result I voted for him because, for once, a politician actually did something for me.

by Granuaille Fri Aug 12, 2005 21:35

... about the lower classes, I have lived and seen it my entire life.'

No lectures, Al, just telling it like it is. And if you are so familiar with it , how come you dont show a little more empathy with Fellow Traveller above?

I wasnt equating newly qualified guards with high-earning sotckbrokers. But once you have been in your profession for a while the salary is very good compared to the salaries that many people will end up on even after a lifetime of very hard work. We dont put appropriate or equal value on the work that each person does - that was my point. Its impossible for everyone to be home owners and those who are not are very vulnerable to cheating landlords.

You avoid the issue of corruption entirely and this is the core of what is angering so many people about this government. Its corroding every part of our lives and it 's nauseating to see Labour, Greens or whoever capitulating to that agenda, out of some notion of being pragmatic so they can get into power and then reveal their true colours. Fairy tales!

I did answer your question about how to vote. You dont have to agree with me about it of course, but I think independent representatives are the way to go provided one actually agrees with the individual in question. This would force our representatives to face towards their electorate rather than a bunch of party whips. You dismiss that view, as is your prerogative but that is what I intend to do, if I can. Your question IS and WAS answered.

'You are suggesting that any person who votes FF is rich - that is wrong'

Im not, Im suggesting that anyone who votes FF must be blind to the facts, indifferent to them or making a killing out of them.

I agree the guards do some dangerous and valuable work - my hub was a probation officer at one time (not a species much liked by guards generally) but Ive seen a lot of what its like working within the criminal justice system. What about the corruption, though? Any explanation for that?

by Al Fri Aug 12, 2005 20:48

Jam,
Obviously you are incapable of even reading posts let alone making an even half decent comment so I will bid you and your spoilt vote farewell.

Gran,
First of, are you the majority that think gardai earn anywhere near as much as doctors and stockbrokers? Seriously? We earn 160 per week for the first year, correct me if Im wrong but thats below the minimum wage. Secondly, even when finished training we are only on 22000 per annum. Thats not a great income. We do valuable and sometimes dangerous work as well, should we not be paid a fair wage?
As for lower incomes, I have no doubt that low income jobs can be dangerous, nasty and are important. I backed the GAMA workers 100% as I do for all hard working people trying to make a living.

secondly, I am not from an upper or even middle class background, my father worked 70 hours a week to provide for his family (having been married with 3 kids by 21) and put a roof over our heads in Inchicore, which is not a middle or upper class area. So spare me the lectures about the lower classes, I have lived and seen it my entire life.

Now to get back to your point. You are suggesting that any person that votes for FF is rich, that is wrong. Anyone that votes for FF is a landlord, that is wrong. The fact that I voted for FF before does not make me a FF suuporter for life anymore than if I vote Labour in the next elections I authomatically become a strict Labour supporter.

But despite all our posts there is still one thing missing, you have failed to provide anything but a smart ass view of 1 political party and have failed to suggest an alternative government or its merits. Independents while a nice idea would be too fragmented to ever accomplish anything.

by Jam Sandwich Fri Aug 12, 2005 20:13

The DUP. They have the most openly gay members, represent a minority community and hate envelope-stuffing free state peelers.
Do yoU Party?

by Granuaille Fri Aug 12, 2005 20:08

Nobody begrudges you your house ownership. I took exception to your original posting because it was so offensive to an earlier poster and implied he had been feckless for not having a morgage. You also ignored the fact that he and his family were going without food. There is something for FF to be proud of.

What rankles is the imputation of irresponsibility to poorer people, because they cant afford it. 100% mortgages are not available to everyone - and in any case poorer people would be mad to consider them. Loads of people do not earn as much as you but still have to pay higher rents than you do for your morgage. There is no opportunity to save! These people are doing vital work for the economy and the community but their contribution is not valued anything like as well as it should be. Can we all be guards, or stockbrokers or doctors? The profity owners I hate are those who own more houses than they need, are using them to screw rent out of others and are also making illegal income by avoiding the tax they should be paying. They are cheating us every way - despoiling the landscape with houses that are full only part of the year, or renting out houses which were sworn to be needed for members of their own family. Where I live every second house falls into this category - there are literally hundreds of tax evaders. Most tenants cannot apply for the tax rebates they are entitled to on rent because they will be evicted - they have to say who the landlord is and that makes him liable for tax. They guy I wrote about up top was not made up and I have quoted him verbatim. I thought he set out the FF mindset very well, actually.
The government turns a blind eye to all of this by and large and its preferential treatment of vast internatinal corporations who want to use and abuse our country is a sickening sight. Shell Oil, incinerators in county cork, cheap reserch bullied out of students at the expense of their learning in universities in return for relatively piffling sums (not for the students - oh no - but for buildings dedicated to the corporate backers in question) when it would cost ten times that elsewhere. total and utter betrayal of ordinary people all over the country. McDowell signing away our very citizenship, practically, to the US. Ive no doubt there are a lot of us here on Indymedia that he would like to see taken off to Guantanomo and tortured.

Also, and Im sure it doesnt apply to you personally, but you must have your head completely in the sand if you havent noticed the stink eminating from your own profession of late. Are you afraid of Labour and the others because theyd actually want to do something about Garda corruption? From what I can make out the Gardai are about almost nothing other than enforcing the extortion racket that is car insurance and supporting the interests of commercial interests like Shell.

I share exactly eeeekkks (not sure how many es and ks but youll know who I mean!) assessment of the political situation. Joe Higgins is a very good man. The press would devour him if he ever became a threat and does so routinely anyway whenever he succeeds in geting the truth across to the public at large. The really hateful thing is party politics - it has been the death of democracy everywhere and the socialists are in perpetual internicine warfare about defining the party and its policies to the nth degree. Who said what about the bin tax thing - really guys??? Politicians should not have permanent group allegiances of this kind and should vote for each issue on its merit like they used to. Its dishonest to do otherwise and the whip system has paralysed fair and rational government. Even you Al, point to the fact that not all FF politicians are alike. So why dont they stick by their principles, then, if they want us to trust them? Just recently they completely shafted the disability lobby - the most vulnerable group we have in society by obediently voting in discriminatory legislation. We need more independent TDs and if you look at their voting patterns it is much more representative of the views of the public in general.

by Al Fri Aug 12, 2005 19:59

Thats exactly what i am trying to say, there is no choice. there is not 1 party at this moment in time that I actually want in power. So do I go with the devil I know? Or take a wild stab in the dark just to see if a new party is any better?

by eeekkkk Fri Aug 12, 2005 19:53

'get rid of them all' as they put it in various south american countries.

Or a helicoptered in 'pigasus' type campaign?

I know how you feel - no meaningful choice means democracy is ailing.
No presidential election allowed last time round either.

by Al Fri Aug 12, 2005 19:40

you see this is the problem. election time is coming and people are giving out blue murder about FF/Pd yet no one seems to have a viable choice, or if they do they aint sharing.

by eeekkkk Fri Aug 12, 2005 19:27

i reckon is a good start when it comes to choosing who has a mandate to govern

harney et all help employers piss on workers at every opportunity

by Al Fri Aug 12, 2005 18:29

the 'job' is running the country, from housing, tax, health, education, justice, etc, etc, etc. Everything, the whole deal.
If you want to limit then I suggest looking at health, housing and justice which are usually the more high profile areas.

To my knowledge a lot of the GAMA workers have gone home. However, being pissed on by your employer does not mean you can run a country.

by eeekkkk Fri Aug 12, 2005 18:20

I'll answer seriously if ya do

meanwhile: Brain leakage


Joe H as taoiseach, That comedian everybody's talking about as tanaiste. 75 gama workers as TD's.

Nice fantasy. They could have fun with conor lenihan that's for sure. They'd probaby nationalise crh too which would be a sight ;-)

by Al Fri Aug 12, 2005 18:20

Oh Jam you little scamp. By claiming to have not known my occupation are you then admitting you didnt read any of the comments previously?

And is the assumption that Gardai work 24/7/365 based on reality or is that just the most original (unoriginal) comment you could think of? I didnt realise that Gardai werent entitled to time off and a basic 8 hour day but hey, if I must be in work shouldnt you be working as well? Afterall, you must pay a serious amount of tax if you can single handed pay my wages. I would hate to pay that much tax. Hang on a second, Im a tax payer too, does that make me my own boss? Am I now self-employed?

Now Jam, would you care to let me know who you will be voting for and why? Come on, dazzle me with your brilliant debating skills.

by Jam Sandwich Fri Aug 12, 2005 18:13

No, I didn't know you were a cop. I didn't realise I was supposed to know either.
You sound like a solpsistic windbag. Anyway, shouldn't you be out catching burglars on the tax money I spend on you? As a tax-payer, I am your boss. So get back to work and stop arseing around on the computer.

by Al Fri Aug 12, 2005 18:09

THats fair enough but forget about your rights for the moment and tell me who you feel are the best party for the job. Who, in your opinion, will benefit the nation and why?

I agree with your commenst about Labour, if they werent so anti-Garda I would vote for them. Personally out of all the TD's I have ever met, which isnt many, I liked Tommy Broughan the most. Seemed very honest and hardworking. He is very involved with the Rossport 5. However he is, by his own admission, "not as liberal or left as the rest of Labour". But again, how honest can any politician really be? Isnt it usually a case of 'disagree or agree depending on public opinion'?

by eeekkkkk Fri Aug 12, 2005 18:02

nobody (excepty maybe . . .see end of post)

Why would I vote for Joe? he and his party are by no means perfect but he is imho an honest well intentioned politician who speaks truth to the powerful in ireland consistently and with humour and verve

he also stands up for people's rights when in terms of votes etc it might not benefit him at all and might hinder him in terms of support in form of votes.

I liked his ansbacher man speech too.

I don't believe there is even a substantial minority of well intentioned people in FF anymore. certainly not the pd's who want to sell off any and all public services tout suite.

I see no visible evidence of such a substantial minority in labour and FG either.

There is in the greens but they are being squashed by an ambitious leadership.

SF my mind is not made up about to be honest. I'd vote for daithi Doolan if he was in my constituency. Why? Sense of humour.

The last people i would approach at present to vindicate my rights if they were being impinged upon would be any combination of FF/PDs and gardai.

my 2c al

by Al Fri Aug 12, 2005 18:01

Well done jam, with that brilliant detective work surely you must be a cop as well. Was it in this thread or another that you read me admit I am a Garda?

I didnt mention mortgages at all in my original post. Oh wait I did, I stated that Labour, the SWP or Greens might actually do something about the ridiculous housing siuation. But again, that doesnt fit with the ranting. Read the thread mate, I am responding to comments.

by Jam Sandwich Fri Aug 12, 2005 17:56

Al, there's more to life than getting a mortgage. What sort of dried-up, withered little soul must you have?

I bet you are a cop.

by AL Fri Aug 12, 2005 17:47

So let me ask you a question, who will you vote for and why?

As for mortgages, you seem to live in a dream world where any person that owns a home got it by making a wish or rubbing a lamp. I rented for long enough to realise what its like out there. But the basic fact is that you can now get 100% mortgages. Yes you must earn a certain amount but if there is 2 incomes you will be close to that figure. Your commenst stink of jelousy, you condemn those with their owm property because you want your own proprty but dont have it. Thats the reality, otherwise it wouldnt be an issue to begin with.

And how, may I ask, do you obtain the opinion that I dotn care about the price of property? I bought my home 1 year ago. It cost 3 times more than my parents home did and isnt as near the city centre (where I commute to work everyday) or as big. I care very much about prices considering I was damn near 30 before finally getting a mortgage and that costs me over 900 euro a month (which is why I know banks will take into consideration how much rent you pay)

But no, instead of looking at the world with a sensible attitude you just insult and attack anyone who dares disagree with your owm personal (IE wrong) opinion. Sorry if basic reality gets in the way.

And now Eeeek, ah yes, the old copy and paste 5 words from a previous comment trick. the fact that I started every paragraph like that doesnt really matter does it? But hey, it makes no difference because again reality comes into play and as a voter I will use my vote to vote for a party that I want in power. If I vote for SF which would be a very bad career move for me, will you vote for FF or FG? No, of course not, because you want a party that will suit you not me.

And I will finish by asking why its automatically assumed that I am a big FF fan, did I not state that I dont want them to regain power? I did but that doesnt suit Eeeks little comment. Gardai cannnot be members of a political party BTW.

So again I will ask, who should I vote for? You all seem to have opinions yet instead of explaining in plain language why one party should get the vote yo0u attack. Nothing new there then.

by eeekkkk Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:45

His number one requirement for a government in his own words:

"Who do I go for? FF will back the Gardai"

by Granuaille Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:43

Od Dear - same ole same ole, Al! I didnt see your comment above until now - must have missed it. Crikey! The reason a person paying 1150 in rent doesnt have a mortgage is becuase there's nothing left to save the deposit! By the way is there some imperative to be a profity owner? Do you think we tennants have any control over rent levels in Dublin or anywhere else? Your dismissal of the difficult circumstances described above is not very nice, either! Fellow Traveller, his wife and child didnt have enough money for food! A shaming circumstance in a country as disgustingly wealthy as Ireland. No word of condemnation from you about the cost of putting a roof over one's head? No doubt you will be one of the people saying the cost of labour must kept down also - that we should be working for slave wages if necessary to subsidise your comfortable complacency? On top of that, you impute fecklessness to people because they are less well off than yourself. What do you think are equitable rates of pay for factory workers, bin men, shop assistants,carers and any number of ordinary people whose services you depend on? Should we all be able to afford a four-bedroomed family home in Dublin 4 - or anywhere in Ireland for that matter? How, exactly will we do the loaves and fishes thing with our wage packets?

The complacency and myopia of FF voters is so evident in what you say and your assessment of the political landscape is really very superficial. You seem to think it is axiomatic that the Labour Party for example are no good and not to be trusted. They were in power a long time ago and it is true to say that they had a savage ride from our national press and are held up to a sort of scrutiny and ridicule that FF would never survive if the same thing happened to them. Thank God for Indymedia, at long last. I dont think much of Rabbitte and his ilk but Im sick of hearing people knocking Labour's record and making the same cliched jokes about them. If our press were doing the job they claim to do, there wouldnt be a single honest person who would want to be associated with the The FF party - theyd be much too ashamed. Im not sure if I dont despise more those FF people who watch all the corruption and do nothing or those who are directly responsible. Im sure McDowell is completely genuine in his treachery and arrogance - but it doesnt justify the consequences of his actions, does it? Your comments about him are so typical of the cult of personality that unthinking voters in Ireland are so susceptible to. This voter refuses to fall for the 'lovable villain' crap that weve had to put up with from Haughey to McDowell and its time we all stopped dealing in this facetious and dangerous nonsense. Lives are being destroyed and made miserable by these 'politicians'. Im not sure youve done FF any favours here, actually...if that was yoru intention

by fellow-traveller Thu Aug 11, 2005 05:30

.

by Granuaille Wed Aug 10, 2005 14:40

I suppose people differ about what they find contrived . A lot of people didnt find Dermot Mogan contrived at all - just very funny at times and that too is a valid point of view. I know my mother didnt think much of him, though! Especially when he was being rude about priests. All Im saying is that comedy is one among many ways of making a point. Im not sure what, if any, would be an acceptable form of comedy for you? In writing the piece above I was trying to get over the scale of the absurdity and contradiction in what my landlord was saying. His attitude is so typical of many people in Ireland and there are a lot of victims of people like him. In many ways he is a ridiculous figure and it helps to be able to see it that way - not just to feel better but also because I believe the more people like him are made to feel ridiculous the sooner they are likely to want to change it. Politicians and other pillars of the community are especially susceptible and sensitive to being seen this way. Where they deserve it though, they should be made to feel it as much as possible.

by fellow-traveller Wed Aug 10, 2005 05:29

but humour depends on taste. Dermot Morgan? I might be the only one, but i never found scrap saturday funny. Fr. Ted wasn't much better. I think contrived comedy is a middle class construct i've rarely been able to identify with. If someone proclaims their funniness, i think "how pathetic".

But i'm not really that bad-minded, i'm just impatient at the pretence. My da's an FF voter and i never fail to avail of the oppertunity to take the piss when he starts gettin' arrogant about his farming millions from subsidies. FF/Lab/FG/PD...can't be ridiculed enough, but satire tends not to go beyond implicit criticism. How can humour be a way of constructive resistance? Navan Man was good, he had IRA hellicopters chasing Jonathan Philben-Bowman down Grafton Street...but, that's fantasy.

We now have an oven but have 2/4 hobs not working as a result of the botched installation. I think my partener is taking it better than i am.

Life in this country is one big long wait on top of another.

by Al Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:23

Theres two things that strike me as odd in these posts. The first is the fact that any person paying 1150 per month on rent would be able to qualify for some form of a mortgage. You mightnt get Blackrock but 4 walls and a roof is all you need. I know my mortgage is a fair bit below that price.
the second is that 1 person that voted for FF is authomatically considered the 'norm'. Now lets twist that opinion and state that all indymedia users are 'lazy college students living off daddy'. the fact that this is true for some does not make it the rule for all.
sure I have my problems with FF. Im not a fan of teh party neither will I blindly vote for them election after election. I prefare to consider each parties merits at each election.

So who to vote for this year? Do I want FF in again? Not really, I like some of there accomplishments but dislike many others. You cant blame them for everything though. They are TD's not gods.

So how about FG? Is there really a difference between the two? Was FG's last attempt any better?

How about Labour? there last term in office was a disaster to say the least. When it comes to Labour I like the basis of the party but the reality and there objectives often seem unrealistic, misdirected and undeserved.

SF? Ha, yeah thats a good idea. The day after they take office I would lose my job, my home and be kneecapped in a field somewhere. Arent they the same party that has considered themselves the real government since the Republic was formed? And isnt there leader also the leader of the IRA? The true police/military force of Ireland?

How about SWP? Not too sound bad, I dont like paying bin tax but is that really enough to give someone power for 4 years? Can I really trust this party? In my opinion no. They seem like a bunch of airheads that really, in their hearts, believe the worlds problems can be cured with a hug. the reality of the world would completely crush them.

PD's? These guys are bad enough as a minority side of government. I hate Harney with such a passion words can describe it. Bloody delaying tactics, sticking her nose in everywhere without actually contributing to the situation. Heres a hint Harney, everything wouldnt take so long or cost as much if you didnt demand 20 independent assessments. I do like McDowell though, he may piss me off sometimes and I know im in the minority but at least he sticks to his guns and doesnt cave on everything.

Greens? Again, how will a party solely dedicated to nature really run an economy? How do they feel about crime and health? how about education? No real plans. Just slogans based on whats popular.

So, basically Im not a fan of any of the parties so maybe I will go for independents. That sounds good, these guys are in it for their constituancy and nothing else. But they wont get power and as a minority they are silent voices. There only hope is to get 1 maybe 2 of their plans the green light in return for backing the people that are in power for 4 years.

Thats it really, the problem in a nut shell. All we can do is back the people we think will do the best job for us. Who do I go for? FF will back the Gardai, FG will as well but they are going in with Labour. Labour, Greens and the SWP will not back the Gardai. Crime WILL BE rampant under these parties. Make no mistake about that. They will be generous with unemployment benefit but should we really give money to people who simple couldnt be bothered to work? (Note: The minority of unemployed not all). You think FF overspend? Try parties that are supposed to be firm supporters of the people, the working classes. Can you really see them changing anything for the better? They might do something about house prices and we sorely needed a solution there. Sinn fein, would (and dont be fooled by PR) be the most corrupt, militant government in history. They are built and continue to profit on military ideas, criminal activities, and rough justice. You think the Gardai are bad, see what happens when the IRA are in charge. And besides all that, there only real political goal is unification, which is a dream at best.

So, who do I choose?

by Granuaille Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:10

There is nothing funny about having no food while you are trying to breast-feed a four month old baby and I hope nothing I said gave the impression that it didnt matter. What Im driving at here is the power of laughter and comedy to point up the absurdity, greed and dishonesty in everyone. At its best, comedy can be a more powerful weapon than any amount of incisive polemic or political commentary. I agree the bickering within the socialist movement on what are often very fine differences of opinion is very offputting at times but I dont think there is a single group of people (anarchist, socialist, liberal or whatever) who will come up with an infallible set of policies to deal with the corruption which has become a way of life at every level of Irish Society. Ordinary people have become completely inured to it now. Im not advocating the cult of the comic personality or ego either - just suggesting that if we can make politicians look as silly as they really are it becomes much more difficult for them to recover their standing. Politicians know this very well too. Who was the actor who played Father Ted? Dermot somebody? He was given a very tough ride by the establishment here and RTE were positively vindictive in their attempts to suppress his work. It was Channel 4 in the UK who gave him his biggest break but if it had been left to the toe rags at RTE his voice would have been silenced. Arguably, he did more to expose the hypocrisy of the Catholic hierarchy than anyone else - just by making us laugh at it. I think 'ordinary' people like you and I can do this too. A forum like Indymedia is a great place for it too.

by fellow-traveller Tue Aug 09, 2005 05:51

I post here and there on indymedia, but to preserve our tenure in this case, i'm in cognito.

The Builders' Party have never had it so good. They've added to their wink-wink anti-authority approach, a distain for 'intellectuals'. People are so individualised and encouraged to see things in terms of self-interest that, that it will take an economic crisis for them to change the slavish patterns.

If the milleniarian implosion so appealing to the Left never happens - and we can't afford to wait - they only hope is the DIO (do it ourselves) approach of groups like DGRN, Dunk, free software makers, and, of course, indymedia itself.

The back-biting and sectarian poewr-plays of the hierarchical Left suggest that they'd be no better 'in charge'.

I like the idea of laughter and celebration of humanity in actively constructing new alternatives; but humour is a weird concept. For me, if its contrived, it's usually not funny. The comedy industry for example is not short of ego, pretence and forced laughter.

I'm all for people not trying to live up to others' expectations of them; just being their non-arteficial selves. Only by letting people see the practicality and magic of the alternative, can the anarchist in our landlords be liberated. Some of them are probably lost causes, but you'd never know.
They may have allowed themselves to be dehumanised, but they're only human after all.

Demonisation don't work, even if it's an understandable reaction sometimes. Practical stuff like burning the big houses worked in days of yore, but our imagination can bring about countless positive actions.

Sorry if this is a bit metaphysical, but sometimes 'being philosophical' about a situation is the only way to deal with it, if you can't quite bring yourself to laugh at it that is.

by Granuaille Thu Aug 04, 2005 20:45

How do we change this situation? FF voters at every level seem not to draw any connection between their own difficulties and the policies of the party they continue to vote for. Perhaps we can overcome it with humour! I can think of several laughable examples of greed and/or corruption in my community and Im going to write them all up in the same way. Perhaps we could laugh them out of power! Have you anything to post yourself?

by fellow-traveller Thu Aug 04, 2005 04:06 Dublin

two nights in a row now without even a hob to cook dinner on and my partner is breast-feeding a four-month-old baby. This is a result of an effort to replace the oven because it was hazzardous.

The rent is E1150 per month, so we won't be able to save a deposit for a place of our own. With the rental income he's getting, it would only take a few months to buy what we're looking for, just to raise our family.

I spoke to a woman two years ago who beat all about how inept and corrupt the government were. I asked her how anyone could've have voted them in again like they did the year before. "But, sure, who else is there?" she said, "they're better than any of the rest'of'em".

One-party sate rules and they wouldn't have a democracy if it meant anything.