Upcoming Events

Donegal | History and Heritage

no events match your query!

New Events

Donegal

no events posted in last week

Blog Feeds

Cedar Lounge
Ni dieu ni maître. Ni patrie, ni patron.

offsite link This Weekend I?ll Mostly Be Listening to? CAN 07:12 Sat Aug 15, 2020 | irishelectionliterature

offsite link Signs of Hope ? A continuing series 12:40 Fri Aug 14, 2020 | WorldbyStorm

offsite link Returning to economic normality? in?er?2022 12:04 Fri Aug 14, 2020 | WorldbyStorm

offsite link That new dispensation in the North?. 10:35 Fri Aug 14, 2020 | WorldbyStorm

offsite link Safety last: Health, wealth, workers rights 08:02 Fri Aug 14, 2020 | WorldbyStorm

Cedar Lounge >>

Dublin Opinion
Life should be full of strangeness, like a rich painting

offsite link Some Thoughts on the Brexit Joint Report 11:50 Sat Dec 09, 2017

offsite link IRISH COMMONWEALTH: TRADE UNIONS AND CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE 21ST CENTURY 14:06 Sat Nov 18, 2017

offsite link Notes for a Book on Money and the Irish State - The Marshall Aid Program 15:10 Sat Apr 02, 2016

offsite link The Financial Crisis:What Have We Learnt? 19:58 Sat Aug 29, 2015

offsite link Money in 35,000 Words or Less 21:34 Sat Aug 22, 2015

Dublin Opinion >>

NAMA Wine Lake

offsite link Test ? 12 November 2018 Mon Nov 12, 2018 14:28 | namawinelake

offsite link Farewell from NWL Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake

offsite link Happy 70th Birthday, Michael Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake

offsite link Of the Week? Sat May 18, 2013 00:02 | namawinelake

offsite link Noonan denies IBRC legal fees loan approval to Paddy McKillen was in breach of E... Fri May 17, 2013 14:23 | namawinelake

NAMA Wine Lake >>

Agallamh le Seosamh O'Ceallaigh

category donegal | history and heritage | feature author Sunday August 07, 2005 04:28author by Paul Baynes Report this post to the editors

Agallamh faoi an teanga, stair, cultúr agus oidhreacht - with English language translation

Is é Seosamh O’Ceallaigh acadúil, údar, staraí áitiúl is cainteoir dúchasach as Fhál Carrach i gContae Dún na nGall. Bhí mé ar chúrsa Gaeilge i Gort an Choirce ar feadh seachtain i Mí Meitheamh. Bhí Seomsamh ag múinteoireacht ar an gcúrsa, agus bhí seans agam caint leis faoi oidhreacht Éireannach agus an teanga Gaeilge.

Sliocht gearr ón agallamh:

Bhí meas i gcónaí ar an Gaeilge againn. Tá suim iontach agam sa teanga sa cultúr fosta, agus ansin bhí deis agam staidéar a dhéanamh air. Ansin fhuair mé PHD - rinne mé é ar stair áitiúl.

Tá níos mó i gceist ná stair áitiúl ach amháin just stair agus pointí agus dátaí. Bhí na daoine beo agus do múnlaigh an timpealleacht iad…do múnlaigh na sagairtí iad…do múnlaigh na tiarnaí talamh iad. Bhí sé sin iontach suimiúl - how they were shaped - múnlaigh - how they were moulded by the landlords and the people and the priests - tá sé iontach suimiúl agus na effects a bhí orthu.

24-6-2005; Óstán Loch Altan; Gort a Choirce; iarthuisceart Dún na nGall.

Paul Baynes: Tá mé anseo le Seosamh O’Ceallaigh

Seosamh O’ Ceallaigh: As Fál Carragh mise.

PB: As Fál Carragh …Just cúpla ceist, mar bhí a lán rudaí suimiúl le rá agat sa ranganna agus tá a lán eolas agat faoi stair áitiúl agus mar sin de.

SOC: B’fhéidir go mbeidh an téip seo luachmhar amach anseo.

PB: Tá an cóip ceart agam.

[Gáire]

Ar dtús, cén nasc atá idir an cultúr agus an teanga, meas tú?

SOC: Ó, sin ceist iontach mór - is ionann cultúr - a tagann sé ón Laidin ‘cultare’ - agus tá na focail Béarla ‘cultivate’, nó ‘agri-culture’ - is ionann sin agus fás. Áit ar bith caitheann teanga agus an cultúr bheith fite fuaithe - muna bhfuil, ní maireann de anam ag an teanga. Caitheann siad a bheith fite fuaithe agus naisceathe, so tá ceangal láidir idir an cultúr agus an teanga. Tugann an cultúr cothaigh don teanga agus tugann an teanga cothaigh don cultúr.

Cothaíonn siad le chéile ag fás, agus cuireann tú i gcás mar shampla tionchar an Críostaíocht - sin pairt ár gcultúr agus ár stair. Seo ré órga na hÉireann. idir an cúigú agus an seachtú aois: na manaí agus Naomh Colmcille agus Bríde agus Naomh Pádraid agus na leithéidí sin. Smaoinú go raibh tionchar acusan ar an teanga cur i gcás laethanta na seachtaine: Dé Luain, Dé Máirt: Dé - God; agus mar shampla Dé hAoine - the fast, Dé Céadaoin - the first fast day. So bíonn tionchar ag aithin ré de na ndaoine ar an teanga, agus sin just léarghas ar sampla amháin.

Agus is dóigh go bhfuil tionchar sa lae inniú. Muidne agus an Gaeilge atá again fosta. Tá an teanga i gcónaí ag fás agus ag athrú. Cur i gcás ár gcultúr anois - táimid inniú bheith pc agus na leithéidí sin- politically correct - Bíonn chuid mór tionchar ar sin ar an teanga…

Tá níos mó atá i gceist anseo - i bhfad níos mó.

PB: Agus faoi an Gaeilge go háirithe, mar shampla, cad atá caillte nuair a d’athraigh logainmneacha ó Gaeilge go Béarla - cad atá caillte againn?

[Nóta ón agallóir: Scríobh O‘Ceallaigh san leabhar ‘Aspects of Our Rich Inheritance’ faoi logainmneacha:
“Identifying a place name can lead to a discovery about our ancestors. They gave these names because of the nature and use of the land, and what it meant to them“.]
SOC: Bhuel - muna dtuigeann duine go bhfuil rud caillte níl sé chun dul ar bith ar cuardú.

Agus is léir sin sa cultúr atá muid in sa lae inniú

Ta dearmad déanta again ar cuid mhór rudaí, agus má thógann tú na logainmneacha atá againn na easát atá i mBaile Átha Cliath, mar shampla Sycamore Drive, agus Cedar Drive - fochall atá ann agus really táimid ag sodar i ndiadh na Sasanaigh - an bacadh ag dul i ndiadh an budadh - the poor person following the wealthy mar a deirtear. Táimid ag cur suas chóras na Sasanaigh in áit a bhí ár logainmneacha fhéin. Tá an saibhreas millte ar ár logainmneacha. Mar a dúirt mé sa rang, tá thart 70,000 acu. Tugann sé léargas dúinn don cineál stair a bhaineann len ceantar.

PB: Tabhair dom cúpla samplaí?

SOC: Drumnatinney - Drum na Tine - Hill of Fire - is léir gur rud tábhachtach a bhí ann. Cur i gcás ansin Bealtaine leis an lá dúinn -Baltony… tine go dtí an dia Baal.

Go háitiúl - tá Baltony go bhfuil iomrá orainn - na Cille Beaga - Killybegs - the small cells, Doire…

PB: Cad é an stair atá ar na cille beaga?

SOC: B’fhéidir go raibh manaí ansin - Nílim cinnte ach tá mé ag smaoineamh go raibh manaí ann agus cille beaga thart air. Cur i gcásDoire - Doire Colm Cille - the forest of Colmcille (níos mó eolais faoin logainm Doire) - tá Léim an Mhadaigh - Limavaddy.

[Nóta ón agallóir: Sa seanscéal, ag an áit seo Léim an Mhadaigh - (Leap of the Dog), bhí madra chlúiteach a léim thar an abhainn Rua chun rabhadh a thabhairt, mar bhí namhaid éigin ag teacht chun ionsaí a dhéanamh gan choinne.]
Tugann sé léargas dúinn ar an stair agus an míniú atá leis. Tá cuid mhór samplaí ann. Shílim go bhfuil athbheochan ann anois ó thaobh na logainmneacha a cur suim i bhfad níos mó daoine ann. Tá sé iontach suimiúl just mar baint stair - iontach suimiúl.

An bhfuil sé sin all right?

PB: Agus stair - Tá an-suim agat sa stair agus stair áitiúl -

SOC: Sea - tá

PB: Ar mhaith leat déan cur síos beag ar…?

SOC: Tá seanfhocal - tá cúpla insint ar an seanfhocal seo.

dochloiste...

Agus caithfidh mé a rá gur is iomaí rud a fágann athar ag mac mar oidhreacht - there’s a lot of things a father gives a son as an inheritance - b’fhéidir páirt nó airgead nó rud mar seo mar sin - bhí mé cinnte gur rud a tugann m’athair liomsa - tá sé beo anois - thug sé dúinn ná meas agus grá don cultúr don teanga don oidhreacht, agus bhí grá i gconaí ag m‘athair do na rudaí sin fosta. Fhadaigh liom an grá céanna a bheith agam. Bhí mé ar maos sa rud sa bhaile - I was steeped in the stuff at home. Agus ó mo mhathair fosta.

PB: Agus seanscéalta…

SOC: Agus seanscéalta. Agus hanna mhaith ansin múinteoir scoil a bhíonn Dad agus bhí sé i gconaí ag bailiú scéalta agus bhí tuiscint aige… Chaith sé iomlán den saol a bhí aige anseo - bhí sé ag obair i Carrigart agus ...dochloiste... Ach chónaí sé anseo - bhí siopa aige. Bhí meas i gcónaí ar an Gaeilge againn. Tá suim iontach agam sa teanga sa cultúr fosta, agus ansin bhí deis agam staidéar a dhéanamh air. Ansin fhuair mé PHD - rinne mé é ar stair áitiúl.

Tá níos mó i gceist ná stair áitiúl ach amháin just stair agus pointí agus dátaí. Bhí na daoine beo agus do múnlaigh an timpealleacht iad…do múnlaigh na sagairtí iad…do múnlaigh na tiarnaí talamh iad. Bhí sé sin iontach suimiúl - how they were shaped - múnlaigh - how they were moulded by the landlords and the people and the priests - tá sé iontach suimiúl agus na effects a bhí orthu.

PB: Ar an ábhar sin, cad é do thuarim faoi stair atá múinte sa scoil?

SOC: Ah - Sin ceist. Bhuel, tá sé furásta a bheith diúltach - agus mar a deireann siad - Dúirt Naomh Francis - naomh iontach suimiúl é, agus bhí dearcadh measartha maith aige ar an timpeallacht agus dúirt sé rud amháin suimiúl fosta ná: “a spoon of honey is better than a barrell of vinegar“. So, nuair a cuireann tú ceisteanna ormsa is fearr níos mó mol a thabhairt ná bheith diúltach.

Ach maidir leis an chóras oideachais sílim go bhfuil cuid mór rudaí nach bhfuil i gceart. Cur i gcás na leabhair scoile. Sílim nach bhfuil an aird ceart ar ár stair agus ar ár gcultúr. Agus go háirithe an ré luachmhar - an ré órga a bhí againn idir an cúigiú agus an seachtú aois - nach bhfuil an focus ceart…

PB: An béim ceart?

SOC: Nó an béim ceart a chur ar, just mar shampla ar sin. Níl ach dhá caibidil amháin sna leabhair meanscoile don iarmhúinteoir scoile. Thug mé sin faoi deara agus is mór an trua é sin. Chuir mise an ceist - tá mise ag déanamh an cúrsa seo le na daoine atá ag obair sa Stáit Serbhíse - cé mhéid acu a léigh scéal Naomh Patrick nó an Confession of St. Patrick.

PB: Dúirt tú sa rang go raibh ach dó dhéag leathnach.

SOC: Sea, dó dhéag leathnach beagáin - is beag duine atá sé léite acu agus cén sort scathán sin ar an Córas Oideachais go dtí nach raibh sin déanta sa scoil? Fiú amháin do mbéadh eagrán páiste déanta den leabhar. Go hanna mhaith ansin na scéalta Naomh Colmcille agus Naomh Brigid. Táimid ag brath ar na múinteoirí scoile le sin a dhéanú.

Sílim gur chóir do na daoine atá ag cur amach na leabhair seo - á fiú amháin an Roinn Oideachais - rud a dhéanann siad chun bheith cinnte go bfhuil níos mó meas againn ar ár stair fhéin

Tá béim mór ar cultúr arís agus ar na cultúr eile atá ag teacht isteach go dtí an tír seo. Ach tá mise den tuaraim cuireann fáilte roimh sin. Tá meas iontach agam ar cultúr eile agus ar creideamhe eile…na Mulsimí agus na Giúdach agus na Hindus, tá an staidéar déanta agam ar sin fosta. Ach táimid i gcónaí ag smaoineamh ar na daoine eile. Caithfimid smaoineamh faoi dúinn fhéin fosta agus bí cinnte go bhfuil a fhios againne ar ár stair fhéin. Sílim go bhfuil locht ansin agus socraíonn ansin chun sin a roinnt - to share that - agus na daoine tá anseo - nuair tagann siad anseo.

To be able to explain to these foreigners that are coming in - seo an cultúr atá againn - this is our culture and this is what it’s about.

Níl airgead ar bith ansin agus an t-aon rud, agus b’fhéidir sin an fáth nach bhfuil meas ag daoine ar an stair agus an oidreacht agus an cultúr agus tá sin le feiceáil mar shampla sna Seandálaíocht - The old historical or archaeological sites.

PB: Cosúil le Tara

SOC: Ah, yeah - tá siad ag milliú áit - níl fhios maith go leor agam ar Tara ach tá sé siumiúl - agus dá mbéadh siad ag déanamh dochar don ceantar sin nár chóir sé dul ar aghaidh ach níl fhios agam an scéal leis an bóthar sin.

Caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil sé iontach deas seo a leathan an bliain seo obair libhse - nílimse ag múineadh sibh nó ag léachtóireacht ach ag obair libh - foghlaimse an cuid is mó - déanaim cuid mó foghlaim a bhíos anseo libhse, agus an am céanna bíonn sibh ag roinnt stuff liomsa. Tá sé le feiceáil go bhfuil suim ag na daoine ar an gcúrsa seo sa Gaeilge ón Stáit Serbhíse.

Agus b’fhéidir gur síleann daoine sa Gaeltacht nach bhfuil sé ann - nach bfhuil Gaeilge ann agus nach bhfuil siad - nach bhfuil an rialtas ag déanamh go leor dó. Tá. Tá Gaeilge ann agus tá sé iontach dáiríre faoi sin agus sin ard moladh.

PB: Go raibh maith agat, a Sheosaimh - bhí sé ar fheabhas

SOC: Beidh sé seo lúchmhar…

author by Paul Baynespublication date Sat Aug 06, 2005 20:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Seosamh O’Ceallaigh is an academic, author, local historian and native Irish speaker from Falcarragh in County Donegal. I was on a week-long Irish language course in Gortahork in June. Seosamh was teaching on the course, and I had a chance to speak to him about Irish heritage and the Irish language

24-6-2005; Loch Altan Hotel; Gortahork; northwest Donegal.

Paul Baynes: I am here with Seosamh O’Ceallaigh

Seosamh O’Ceallaigh: …from Falcarragh

PB: From Falcarragh. Just a few questions, because you had a lot of interesting things to say in the classes, and you have a lot of knowledge about local history and so forth.

SOC: Maybe this tape will become very valuable in the future.

PB: I have the copyright…

[Laughter]

Firstly, what is the link between language and culture, do you think?

SOC: Oh, that’s a very big question. The word culture is the same as - it comes from the Latin ‘cultare’ - and you have the English words ‘cultivate’, or ‘agri-culture’ - and so culture is the same as growth. No matter where you are, language and culture have to be interwoven. If they are not, the soul of the language will not survive. They have to be interwoven and linked, so there is a strong tie between the culture and the language. The culture feeds the language and the language feeds the culture.

They feed off each other and thus grow, and you can take the case of the influence of Christianity as an example - this is part of our culture and our history. You have the golden age of Ireland between the 5th and 7th ages: the monks, and Saint Colmcille and Saint Bridget, and Saint Patrick and the likes of them. Just to think of the influence that they had on the language take the case of the days of the week: Dé Luain (Monday), Dé Máirt (Tuesday): Dé = God; and for example: Dé hAoine (Friday) - the fast, Dé Céadaoin (Wednesday) - the first fast day. So the influence of the people of this period is recognisable on the language - and that’s just an outline of one example.

And I suppose that there is influence in current times between ourselves and the Irish we have now as well. The language is always growing and changing. Take our culture now - today we are always being p.c and this kind of thing - politically correct, and this has an influence on the type of language we are using.

And there is much more than this to think about.

PB: And about Irish in particular, for example, what is lost when place names are changed from Irish to English - what is lost to us?

[Interviewer’s note: O‘Ceallaigh wrote in the book ‘Aspects of Our Rich Inheritance’ about place names: “Identifying a place name can lead to a discovery about our ancestors. They gave these names because of the nature and use of the land, and what it meant to them“.]

SOC: Well, if somebody doesn’t understand that something is lost, they’re not going to start looking for it. And that is clear from the culture that we have today.

We have forgotten many things, and if you take the place names that we have now in the estates in Dublin city, for example Sycamore Drive and Cedar Drive - it’s a corruption, and we are trotting after the English: the poor person following the wealthy as they say. We are putting in place the system of the English in place of our own place names. The richness of our place names is destroyed - as I said during the classes there are around 70,000 of them. They give us an insight into the kind of history concerning the area.

PB: Give me a couple of examples.

SOC: Drumnatinney - Droim na Tineadh - Hill of Fire - it is clear that there was something important there. Take the case then of Beal tine that we have these days as Baltony - it meant a fire to the god Baal.

So locally, there is Baltony as we have discussed. There is Killybegs - na Cille Beaga - meaning the small cells.

PB: What is the history of the small cells?

SOC: Maybe there were monks there. I am not sure but I am thinking that there were monks there and small cells around there. Take the case of Derry - Doire Colm Cille - the forest of Colmcille. Léim an Mhadaí - Limavaddy.

[Interviewer’s note: In an old story, in this location at Limavaddy (The Irish version of the name means ‘Leap of the Dog’), there was a faithful dog which jumped over the River Roe to give warning of an unexpected enemy attack.]

This gives us an insight into the history of a place and an explanation for it. There are many examples. I think that there is a revival now from the point of view of place names which is now of interest to more people. It is very interesting just for making historical connections - very interesting.

Is that okay?

PB: And history - you have a great interest in history and in local history -

SOC: Yes - I do.

PB: Would you like to give an account of this?

SOC: There’s a couple of old sayings about it.

...inaudible...

I have to say, there are a lot of things a father leaves a son as an inheritance - maybe a portion or money or something like this- but I am certain that one thing my father has left me - and he is alive still - one thing he gave us all is a respect and love for our culture, and our language, and our heritage, and my father also always had a love for these things himself. The same love was kindled in me. I was steeped in the stuff at home - and from my mother as well.

PB: And old stories…

SOC: And old stories. And Dad used to be a school teacher and he was always collecting stories and he had an understanding… He spent all his life here - he was working in Carrigart ...inaubible….But he lived here - he had a shop. We always had a great respect for Irish. I have a great interest in the language and the culture as well, and then I had a chance to study it. Then I got a PHD - I did it in local history.

There’s more to local history than just history and points and dates. These people were alive and the environment shaped them… and the priests shaped them… and the landlords shaped them… It is very interesting - how they were shaped - how they were moulded by the landlords and the people and the priests - it is very interesting the effects this had on them.

PB: On that topic, what is your opinion of the history that is taught in schools?

SOC: Ah - there’s a question. Well, it is easy to be negative, and as they say… St. Francis said - he was a very interesting saint, and he had a pretty good consideration of the environment - and he said an interesting thing, which is: “a spoon of honey is better than a barrell of vinegar”. So, when you are asking me these questions, it is better that I give more praise than to be be negative.

But as regards the education system I think that there are many thing that are not right. Take the case of the school books. I think that there isn’t the right attention on our history and our culture. And especially the valuable age - the golden age that we had between the 5th and 7th age - that there isn’t the right focus...

PB: The right emphasis?

SOC: Or the right emphasis put on it. Just as an example of this, there are only two chapters in the secondary school books about this period for use by post primary teachers. I noticed this and it is a big pity.

I put the question - I am doing this course with the people who are working in the public service - how many of them had read the story of Saint Patrick - the Confession of St. Patrick.

PB: You said during the class that it was only twelve pages long.

SOC: Yes, twelve short pages - and it is few people who have read it, and what kind of reflection is that on the educational system that this wasn’t done in school? They could even have done a small child’s edition of the book. Very good also are the stories of St. Colmcille and Saint Brigid. We are depending on the school teachers to do this themselves.

I think that the people who are putting out these books - even the Department of Education - that they should make certain that we have more respect for our own history.

There is a big emphasis on culture again and on the other cultures that are coming in to this country. But I am of the opinion that we should welcome these cultures. And I have a great respect for other cultures and other religions. The Muslims and the Jews and the Hindus - I have done study on these religions as well. But we are always thinking of the other people. We have to think of ourselves as well and be certain that we know about our own history. I think there is a fault there and we should arrange to share that with the people that are here, when they come here.

To be able to explain to these foreigners that are coming in - this is the culture that we have - this is our culture and this is what it’s about.

There is no money at all in this and this is one thing - and maybe this is the reason that people don’t have respect for their history and heritage and culture - and it is there to be seen for example in archaeology -in the old historical or archaeological sites.

PB: Like Tara?

SOC: Ah, yeah - they are destroying places. I don’t have a very good knowledge of what is going on at Tara but it is interesting - and if they are doing damage to the area that they shouldn’t be doing then they should not go ahead, buti don’t really know what the story is with that road.

I have to say that it has been great this year to work with you - I’m not teaching or lecturing but working with you and learning a lot. I am helping you to learn and at the same time you are all sharing things with me. It can be seen that the people from the public service on the course have an interest in Irish.

And maybe people in the Gaeltacht think that it isn’t there - that Irish isn’t there and that they aren’t - that the government aren’t doing enough for them - but Irish is there and they are very serious about it and this is high praise.

PB: Thank you Seosamh - that was excellent.

SOC: This will be worth money some day…!

author by Cupla cheistpublication date Sun Aug 07, 2005 07:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Wouldn't it be Léim na Mhadra? Or is this some sort of older Irish?

author by Iarracht freagra a thabhairtpublication date Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think you might find that this is Donegal / Ulster Irish. There is a lot of regional variation in Gaelic (dialects). The standard written Irish (Caighdeán Oifigiúil) would be "madra" but as far I can recall from a summer spent in Gleann Cholm Chille many years ago, Donegal Irish speakers tend to use the form "mada".

Refer to the appended link where you´ll see that in Ulster and Scots Gaelic a fox is called "mada rua" (= red dog).

Thus "Leim an Mhada(igh)" would be the Ulster version. I´m not too sure about the "igh" at the end but it could be older orthography (spelling) or it could come from a base form "madach" with a genitive "madaigh".

I'll leave that to the experts .....

Related Link: http://www.daltai.com/proverbs/weeks/week169.htm
author by iarracht freagra a thabhairtpublication date Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

According to the link attached, the Ulster form of the word is "MADADH". This would be more or less pronounced "MADA", with the "DH" being for all practical purposes silent.

Thus the genitive form of MADADH would be MADAIDH, aspirated after the definite article "AN" to become "MHADAIDH".

That would give "LÉIM AN MHADAIDH" and God between us and all harm but isn't that what the Borough Council of Limavady uses in its official Gaelic Title:
http://www.limavady.gov.uk
(Look in the top right corner).

Related Link: http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/fbg.txt
author by Brian Npublication date Mon Aug 08, 2005 01:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Very interesting article and for some strange reason I could follow that Irish much better than I can most of the Irish messages posted online here . I dont know why!
I agree about the importance of local history and I was wondering what do you think about the practicalites of people from places like Donegal doing serious local history research ? It would strike me as being very difficult and expensive to do that research so far from the big libraries?

author by Duinepublication date Mon Aug 08, 2005 14:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ba mhaith an t-agallamh.
Ach ná caill an t-áiméar cúrsaí eile a phlé seachas stair is logainmneacha.

author by Shipseapublication date Sat Aug 27, 2005 21:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

To take up SOC's point about the importance of language, culture and place, it is really a very serious issue. As many readers of this thread will probably know, Franz Fannon, the Marxist psychologist and revolutionary researched the incidence of schizophrenia among colonial and post-colonial societies ('Black Skins, White Masks'). Fanon argued that a certain type of schizophrenia resulted from being forced to live in the psychology, customs and geography of your native culture but to communicate in the language of another. His theory was that this sets up extremely difficult pscyhological dilemmas and paradoxes which ultimately cause many people to be ill. Post colonial societies, where the alien language has almost always been violently imposed, all have higher incidences of schizophrenia (which strongly supports his thesis) but Ireland has the highest incidence in the world having been a colony for longer than many others. The alien language is not capable of expressing the subtle intentions and meanings of the people using it, which leads to very serious psychological stress over time. Taking up the theme, Liam Greenslade, another Marxist psychologist who at one time was working out of Liverpool University (and may still be) wrote a paper titled 'White Skins White Masks'. His fundamental conviction (along with many other psychologists) is that mental health problems are most often a completely normal reaction to abnormal societal and other pressures. His own research showed that, not only did this phenomenon apply to first generation Irish immigrants in the UK, but that their second generation children were also presenting with very high levels of schizophrenia - more than any other immigrant group. (Interestingly, the meantal health of Northern Irish 'Protestant' people also deteriorated disproportionately on moving to the UK). So, it appears it is very much in our interests to preserve and engage with our own language and culture not just for political and social reasons but also for the sake of our well-being. It seems we may only ever really feel at home or realise our potential if we speak from within our own voice and mind. Of course, sad fact is we have been in cultural transition for so long it 's hard to know which culture is now more natural to us. How long does it take for a people to grow out of the psychology of its language? In Ireland's case, we went - superficially at least - from being a fully Irish speaking people into an English speaking people in less than a century (about 70 years) - phenomenal rate of change. Is our true psychological culture and language now a sort of hybrid? Our present rates of collective mental health problems relative to other culture/language groups suggest that we are still, psychologcially, Irish 'speakers'.

author by Barrypublication date Sun Aug 28, 2005 00:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I remeber seeing somewhere else that according to UN research if more than 10% of a countries population perishes in war the rest of the population and its subsequent offspring will also suffer serious pyschological problems .

Therefore when one takes into account the rapid imposition of the English language alongside the even more rapid decimation of the population in 1847 we have the inescapable conclusion that this country is seriously fucked up mentally . The soaring rate of suicide , drug and alcohol abuse , paedophilia , domestic violence etc are evidence that indeed Irelands population is seriously afflicted by mental health problems .
Could the Irish language play any role in combatting some of those problems ? An interesting thought .

Interestingly enough Fanon expanded his theories further in his masterpiece " The Wretched of the Earth" . Fanon learned psychiatry under the tutelage of former Catalan nationalist Francois Tosquelles , who had also been a leading member of Partido Obrero de Uification Marxista ( the POUM) during the Spanish civil war .

The Wretched of the Earth was Fanons last and arguably finest work , were again mental health issues played a major role in explaining the effects of colonialism and neo-colonial society . The cure Fanon proscribed for the mental ill-effects of the colonised was interesting - revolutionary armed struggle .

Therefore , if Fanon is correct , it could be argued that someone who learns Irish and takes an armalite to the Brits is actually quite sane and its the rest of you who are nuts .

I always thought so but now I can prove it .

author by Shipseapublication date Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Fanon's conclusions that armed 'struggle' will resolve the mental health problems of colonised people are controversial to say the least. In fact there is a lot of evidence to show that the adoption of terrorist or guerilla tactics actually worsens the problem. Almost all revolutionary groups make lousy, violent governments when they get into power because they have debased their collective psychological health and humaity through killing people - often in extremely brutal ways. However justified their original cause may have been, they've had to consciously cut themselves off from their normal mental state in order to pursue a violent course of action - suspend their real beliefs. People are not able suddenly to revert to normality - they've lost the ability to function in an averagely humane and tolerant manner (cf our very own and very dear Barry).
Planting bombs in Warrington or assassinating people in their homes, for instance, has never made anyone feel good about themselves - far from it. On the other hand, a re-engagement with one's own culture and language, it seems, may do wonders for us. As well as being a peaceful and constructive means of reasserting our personal and collective autonomy, it is also great fun and hugely stimulating.

I really hope this thread is not going to be subverted into another attempt to justify killing and maiming people. The original post was as far from all that as it is possible to be. Jesus Barry, you are completely fixated on guns and shooting. Why dont you watch a few Tom & Jerry's? Get it out of the system, man! Better still, write a few Irish poems for us.

author by psychiatristpublication date Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

has it ever occurred to you that Barry may be deliberately trying to wind you up ?

author by Shipseapublication date Sun Aug 28, 2005 14:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Yes, but I don't think so.

author by Questionpublication date Sun Aug 28, 2005 14:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Any Contact details for this college?

author by Shipseapublication date Sun Aug 28, 2005 14:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I looked on the net and wondered if it might be this one. Unfortunately the link to the college itself isnt working. Maybe the original poster will confirm or deny if we're onto the right one!

author by Barrypublication date Mon Aug 29, 2005 06:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If you seriously reckon I believe Im the only sane man in the country and everyone else is nuts , then its quite likely Im dressed as Napoleon dodging white coated men with a net on a daily basis . Indeed I may have only sneaked onto the wards computer while Matrons having a cup of tea . This may be true or from time to time I make a tongue in cheek comment . You decide .

But Ill write you a wee poem all the same .

author by Shipseapublication date Mon Aug 29, 2005 07:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

...and I certainly dont imagine you're the only person who suffers from the delusion that he is sane! Anyway, if you can write us up a nice poem in Irish its more than I can do myself, sadly, but Im intending to do something about that.

author by Paul Baynespublication date Mon Sep 19, 2005 18:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi all –

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you about the course. I’ve been up to my eyes with different things, but apologies are in order…

The course was not run by any college in Gortahork. It is a course for public service employees, run by Gaeleagras, which is part of the Department of Finance. Gaeleagras run training courses for civil servants, Gardaí, the Health Board etc. to enable them to communicate with the public in Irish. Now, under the Official Languages Act, if you ring up or write to the state in Irish you are entitled to a response in the same language.

I work in the Dept. of Education so I’m entitled to go on one of these courses every couple of years. Gaeleagras run four week-long courses a year, in three locations: in Donegal, in Ballyferriter in the Dingle peninsula, and in Carraroe in Galway. But if you’re interested in doing an Irish language course, there are links to adult courses on the websites of Gael Linn and Conradh na Gaeilge.

http://www.gael-linn.ie/

http://www.cnag.ie/

http://www.finance.gov.ie/Gaeleagras/

I was in touch with Seosamh as well and he has sent me an edited interview transcript, with a few of the inaudible gaps filled in. I’ve attached this below.

Go raibh maith agaibh go léir don suim san agallamh seo.

Tá brón orm arís don delay, ach tá mé an-gnóthach le rudaí éagsúla. Freisin, rinne mé agallamh dhá nóiméad le duine as an Gearmáin nuair a bhí mé in Gort a Choirce - as Gaeilge! Is é Axel fear an-suimiúl – tá Gaeilge agus Scots Gallic líofa aige agus tá sé ina chónaí i ceantar Scots Gallic san Alban. Tá agallamh beag agam leis, so nuair a tá seans agam, scríobhfaidh mé é amach dóibh.

Sorry about the delay, but I'm very busy with different things. Also, I did a two minute interview with someone from Germany when I was in Gortahork - in Irish! Axel is an interesting man - he has fluent Irish and Scots Gallic, and he is living in a Scots Gallic speaking area in Scotland. I have a small interview with him, so when I've a chance, I'll write it out for you.
Slán –


Paul



Agallamh le Seosamh O'Ceallaigh
by Paul Baynes Sunday, Aug 7 2005, 3:28am
donegal / miscellaneous / feature
Agallamh faoi an teanga, stair, cultúr agus oidhreacht - with English language translation
Ba é acadúil, údar, staraí áitiúl agus cainteoir dúchasach Seosamh Ó'Ceallaigh as An Fhál Carraaigh i gContae Dhún na nGall. Bhí mé ar chúrsa Gaeilge Gael Eagrais i Gort an Choirce ar feadh seachtaine i Mí Meitheamh 2005. Bhí Seosamh ag múinteoireacht ar an chúrsa, agus bhí seans agam caint leis faoin abhar a bhí a phlé aige sna ranganna go hairithe ar oidhreacht na h-Éireann agus an teanga duchasacha.
Sliocht gearr ón agallamh:
Bhí meas i gcónaí ar an Gaeilge again sa bhaile . Tá suim iontach agam sa teangaí agus sa chultúir fosta, agus ansin bhí deis agam staidéar PHD a dhéanamh - rinne mé é ar stair áitiúl.

Tuigeann tú tá níos mó i gceist ná stair áitiúl ach amháin just stair agus pointí agus dátaí. Bhí na daoine beo agus do múnlaigh an timpealleacht iad…do múnlaigh na sagairt iad…do múnlaigh na Tiarnaí Ttalamh iad. Bhí an treimse 1830-1890 iontach suimiúl - how the people were shaped - múnlaigh - how the people were moulded by the landlords and priests - tá sé iontach suimiúl agus an tioncair- na effects a bhí ar na daoineda bharr a mhunlaigh sin.
24-6-2005; Óstán Loch Altan; Gort a Choirce; iarthuisceart Dún na nGall.

Paul Baynes: Tá mé anseo le Seosamh O'Ceallaigh

Seosamh O' Ceallaigh: As Fál Carrach mise.

PB: As Fál Carragh …Just cúpla ceist, mar bhí a lán rudaí suimiúl le rá agat sa ranganna agus tá a lán eolas agat faoi stair áitiúl agus mar sin de.

SOC: B'fhéidir go mbeidh an téip seo luachmhar amach anseo.

PB: Tá an cóip ceart agam.

[Gáire]

Ar dtús, cén nasc atá idir an cultúr agus an teanga, meas tú?

SOC: Ó, sin ceist iontach mór - is ionann cultúr - a tagann sé ón Laidin 'cultere' - agus tá na focail Béarla 'cultivate', nó 'agri-culture' - is ionann sin agus fás. Áit ar bith a bhfuil teanga, caitheann an teangaí agus an cultúir bheith fite fuaite - muna bhfuil, ní móran de anam ag an teanga. Caitheann siad a bheith fite fuaite agus nascaithe, so da réír mo bhairiúilse, tá ceangal láidir idir an cultúir agus an teangaí. Tabharann an chultúir cothaigh don teanga agus tabharann an teangaí cothaigh don chultúir.

Cothaíonn siad a chéile cur i gcás mar shampla an tionchar a bhí a an Chríostaíocht - sin pairt luachmhar dár gcultúir agus ár stair. Seo ré órga na hÉireann. Idir an cúigú agus an seachtú aois: bhí manaí agus Naomh ar nós Colmcille agus Naomh Bríde agus Naomh Pádraig agus na leithéidí sin. Smaoineadh go raibh tionchar acusan ar an teangaí. Cur i gcás laethanta na seachtaine: Dé Luain, Dé Máirt: Dé - God; agus mar shampla Dé hAoine - the fast day , Dé Céadaoin - the first fast day. So, bíonn tionchar ag achan ré ar an teanga, agus sin just léarghas agus sampla amháin.

Agus is dóigh go bhfuil tionchar sa lae inniú ar an teangái. Muidne agus an Gaeilge atá again fosta. Tá an teangaí i gcónaí ag fás agus ag athrú. Cur i gcás ár gcultúr anois - táimid inniú a bheith pc agus Bíonn chuid mór tionchar ar sin ar an teanga…

Tá níos mó atá i gceist anseo - i bhfad níos mó.

PB: Agus faoi an Gaeilge go háirithe, mar shampla, cad atá caillte nuair a d'athraigh logainmneacha ó Gaeilge go Béarla - cad atá caillte againn?
[Nóta ón agallóir: Scríobh O'Ceallaigh san leabhar 'Aspects of Our Rich Inheritance' faoi logainmneacha:"Identifying a place name can lead to a discovery about our ancestors. They gave these names because of the nature and use of the land, and what it meant to them".]
SOC: Bhuel - muna dtuigeann duine go bhfuil rud caillte níl sé chun dul ar bith ag cuartú.

Agus is léir sin sa cultúr atá muid in sa lae inniú. Ta dearmad déanta againne ar cuid mhór rudaí, agus má thógann tú na logainmneacha atá againn ar na easáit atá i mBaile Átha Cliath, mar shampla Sycamore Drive, agus Cedar Drive - focail atá ann na bhfuil moran baint acu le ait- really táimid ag sodar i ndiadh na Sasanaigh - an bacadh ag dul i ndiadh an budadh - the poor person following the wealthy mar a deirtear. Táimid ag cur suas chómharthaí na Sasanaigh in áit a bhí uair amhain ina raibh ár logainmneacha fhéin. Tá an saibhreas mór lenar logainmneacha. Mar a dúirt mé sa rang, tá thart 70,000 acu I Eireann . Tugann sin léargas dúinn a cineál stair a bhaineann le gach cearn den tír.

PB: Tabhair dom cúpla samplaí?

SOC: Drumnatinney - Drum na Tine - Hill of Fire – I gCloich Cheann Fhaola is léir gur rud tábhachtach a bhí ann, tine pagantach bfheidir? Cur i gcás ansin Bealtaine I gCloich Cheann Fhaola Baltony… tine go dtí an dia Baal- arist logainm ó re na paganaigh. Na Cille Beaga - Killybegs - the small cells, Doire…

PB: Cad é an stair atá ar na cille beaga?

SOC: B'fhéidir go raibh manaí ansin - Nílim cinnte ach tá mé ag smaoineamh go raibh manaí ann agus cille beaga thart air. Cur i gcásDoire - Doire Colm Cille - the forest of Colmcille (níos mó eolais faoin logainm Doire) - tá Léim an Mhadaigh - Limavaddy.
[Nóta ón agallóir: Sa seanscéal, ag an áit seo Léim an Mhadaigh - (Leap of the Dog), bhí madra chlúiteach a léim thar an abhainn Rua chun rabhadh a thabhairt, mar bhí namhaid éigin ag teacht chun ionsaí a dhéanamh gan choinne.]
Tugann na logainmeanacha seo léargas dúinn ar an stair agus an míniú atá leis. Tá cuid mhór samplaí ann. Shílim go bhfuil athbheochan ann anois ó thaobh na logainmneacha
An bhfuil sé sin all right?

PB: Agus stair - Tá an-suim agat sa stair agus stair áitiúl -

SOC: Sea – tá leoga

PB: Ar mhaith leat déan cur síos beag ar…?

SOC: Tá seanfhocal ann - tá cúpla insint ar an seanfhocal seo: 'An rud ata san chat beidh sé sa phúisin,' nó 'tagann an duchais faói shúile an chat,' bhuel sin mar a bhí se damh-sa, bhí suim I gconaí ag mo athair I ngach rud Gaelach- teangai, stair, politiocaíocht srl. Agus ar ndoighe caithfidh mé a rá gur is iomaí rud a fhágann athar ag a mhac - there's a lot of things a father gives a son as an inheritance - b'fhéidir piosa talamh nó airgead nó rud mar sin – bhuel thug mo athair grá damh don anam gaelach agus chothaigh sé gra ionaím don chultúir, don teangaí, don oidhreacht luachmhar a fagadh linn thar na nglúntaí. Fadfaidh liom a rá go raibh mé ar maos sa gaelachas sa bhaile - I was steeped in the stuff at home. Agus fuair mé doran mhaith ó mo mhathair fosta- bean Fhanad- ait le daoine iontach dilis agus da reire .
PB: Agus seanscéalta…

SOC: Agus seanscéalta. Ba múinteoir scoile m'athair agus bhí sé i gconaí ag bailiú scéaltaí agus bhí tuiscint aige ar an stair aitiúil… Chaith sé iomlán da shaol anseo I gCloich Cheann Fhaola- bhí sé ag obair ar Oileasn Owey i dtús agus ansin I gCarrigart, ait ar chaith me cupla blian ar scoil, agus sa deireadh bhóg sé go Bunscoil Dún Fionnaichaidh Ach chónaí sé anseo I gCloich Cheann Fhaola I rith an am - bhí siopa aige an Glas Gaibhleann ar a príom sraid.
… Bhí meas i gcónaí ar an Gaeilge againn. Tá suim iontach agam sa teangaí agus sa chultúir fosta, agus ansin bhí deis agam staidéar a dhéanamh air. Rinne mé Ph.D. ar stair áitiúl., 'Landlords Priests and People, Cloughaneely and North-West Donegal 1830-1890'.Sa staidear seo rinne mé phlé ar an doigh a bhí tionnontaí Cloich Cheann Fhaola beo agus an doigh a mhúnlaigh an timpealleacht iad agus an doigh a mhúnlaigh na sagairt iad agus an doigh a mhúnlaigh na Tiarnaí Talamh iad. Bhí sé sin iontach suimiúl - how they were shaped - múnlaigh - how they were moulded by the landlords and the priests and by the geographical environment in which the lived- tá sé iontach suimiúl tomhais a dheanamh ar an tioncair seo- na effects a bhí orthú.

PB: Ar an ábhar sin, cad é do thuarim faoi stair atá múinte sa scoil?

SOC: Ah - Sin ceist ar doigh. Bhuel, tá sé furást a bheith diúltach - agus mar dúirt Naomh Francis - naomh iontach suimiúl é, agus bhí dearcadh measartha maith aige ar an timpeallacht, "a spoon of honey is better than a barrel of vinegar". So, nuair a chuireann tú ceisteanna ormsa is fearr níos mó moladh a thabhairt ná a bheith diúltach.

Ach maidir leis an chóras oideachais sílim go bhfuil cuid mhór rudaí nach bhfuil i gceart. Cur i gcás na leabhair scoile. Sílim nach bhfuil an aird ceart ar ár stair agus ar ár gcultúr. Agus go háirithe an ré luachmhar - an ré órga a bhí againn idir an cúigiú agus an seachtú aois - nach bhfuil an focus ceart… ré Insula Sanctum et Doctorum

PB: An béim ceart?

SOC: Shampla do sin. Níl ach dhá caibidil sna leabhair meanscoile staire as 35 ar a ré orgha sin. Thug mé sin faoi deara agus is mór an trua é sin. Nach cuis nairithe e sin?
Chuir mise an ceist - tá mise ag déanamh an cúrsa seo le na daoine atá ag obair sa Stáit Serbhíse - cé mhéid acu a léigh scéal Naomh Patrick nó an Confession of St. Patrick.

PB: Dúirt tú sa rang go raibh ach dó dhéag leathnach.

SOC: Sea, dó dhéag leathnach- beagáin really a leamh – agus is fiú duine a leamh é, bfheidir 6 as 100 ar an chúrsa. Ní orthú atá me ag tarraingt locht ach níl sé deanta ar scoil. Cén Fath? Is beag duine atá sé léite acu agus cén sort scathán e seo ar ár Chóras Oideachais scoile? Fiú amháin da mbéadh eagrán páiste déanta den leabhar. Silím gur náire é nach bhfuil rudaí mar seo luachmhar da réir tomhais an Roinn Oideachais?
Sílim gur chóir do na daoine atá ag cur amach na leabhair seo - á fiú amháin an Roinn Oideachais - rud eagan a dhéanann chun a bheith cinnte go bfhuil níos mó meas againn ar ár stair fhéin agus a n-oidhreacht ata comh luachmhar- bfheidir níos luachmhar na tír ar bith eile sa domhain.

Inniú tá ple agus béim mhór ar chultúir arís agus ar na chultúir eile atá ag teacht isteach go dtí an tí seo. Ach tá mise den tuaraim , cinnte fáilte croíiuil a chur rompu- tá meas iontach agam ar chultúir eile agus ar creidimh eile…na Mulsimí agus na Giúdach agus na Hindus, tá an staidéar déanta agam ar sin fosta, Ach táimid i gcónaí ag smaoineamh ar na daoine eile. Caithfimid smaoineamh orainn fhéin fosta agus bí cinnte go bhfuil a fhios againne ar ár stair féin. Sílim go bhfuil locht an , níl muid abalta ar chultúir a roinnt - to share le daoine eile - nuair tagann siad anseo, muna bhfuil a fhios againn féin ar stair. To be able to explain to these foreigners that are coming in - seo an cultúr atá againn - this is our culture and this is what it's about.

Níl airgead ar bith sa chultúir agus b'fhéidir sin an fáth nach bhfuil meas ag daoine na hEireann ar an stair agus an oidreacht, tá sin le feiceáil mar shampla sna Seandálaíocht - The old historical or archaeological sites. Really is cum le daoine fuatha.

PB: Cosúil le Tara

SOC: Ah, yeah - tá siad ag milliú an áit - níl fhios maith go leor agam ar cesit Tara ach tá sé suimiúil - agus dá mbéadh siad ag déanamh dochar don ceantar sin cha chóir do dul ar aghaidh, ach níl a fhios agam an scéal go hiomlán.

Caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil sé iontach deas obair libhse - nílimse ag múineadh sibh nó ag léachtóireacht ach ag obair libh - foghlaimse an cuid is mó – bíonn mise a muineadh ach san am céanna bíonn sibhse ag roinnt stuff liomsa. Tá sé le feiceáil go bhfuil suim ag na daoine ón Stáit Serbhíse ar an gcúrsa seo sa Ghaeilge. Agus b'fhéidir gur síleann daoine sa Gaeltacht nach bhfuil Gaeilge agaibh - nach bfhuil Gaeilge sa Stait Seirbhis, ach caithfaidh mé a adamhail go bhfuil an rialtas ag déanamh go leor don Ghaeilge. Tá Gaeilge agaibh agus tá sibh iontach dáiríre faoi sin, tá ard moladh tuilte agaibh uilig agus Gael Eagrais go hairithe. Maith sibh agus maith thu!

PB: Go raibh maith agat, a Sheosaimh - bhí sé ar fheabhas

SOC: Beidh sé seo lúchmhar…

author by Duinepublication date Wed Sep 21, 2005 16:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maith an fear, a Phaul!

author by Shipseapublication date Wed Sep 21, 2005 18:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

An bhfuil se fior ata 'Ph' i Gaeilge?

author by Ceartpublication date Wed Sep 21, 2005 18:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Is fíor agus is ceart go bhfuil 'ph' ann, a s(h)hipsea..!

author by Duinepublication date Thu Sep 22, 2005 14:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Tá an ceart ag Ceart!

author by Shipseapublication date Thu Sep 22, 2005 16:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Duine
Faigh me amach an website aistruchan ceartaithe ionas go bheafaidh me tuig cad a duirt tu. An bhfuil se sin ceart?

An link mar daoine eile!:

http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/

Agus link eile!!

http://www.gaeltalk.net/

author by Duinepublication date Thu Sep 22, 2005 18:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Níl fhios agam an ceart nó mícheart thú.

Ach grma as na naisc.

author by Duine eilepublication date Thu Sep 22, 2005 18:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

do dhean hipsea iarracht, ach tuigim cád atá i gceist agat..!

Iontach!

Number of comments per page
  
 
© 2001-2020 Independent Media Centre Ireland. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by Independent Media Centre Ireland. Disclaimer | Privacy