IMC IRL IS DEAD LONG LIVE IMC

by Irish abroad Tue Jun 25, 2002 15:07

it is a shame that we cannot get a few dedicated bodies to submit a few stories every few weeks. What about all the hard work gone in before? Is it all wasted?

I am just about to give up checking in on indymedia.ie, and I am sure many others are

by BlackPope Tue Jun 25, 2002 17:02 BlackPope at opera dot com A cave-hideout someplace in Europe

I have been checking here for maybe the last couple of months. I don't know exactly what stuff 'that's gone before' means - so please enlighten me or suggest some course of action you would prefer to see.

Yours etc. BP

by Tim Hourigan Tue Jun 25, 2002 17:22

We must all know of something going on in our own areas not being properly reported.

If we can somehow get people to stop sending 'repeat' stories on the wire and put in more local Irish stuff it should work (in my humble opinion.)

If people are plastering stories on all the IMC sites worldwide, they should just have a section for people to post alert links to (for example - IMC Jerusalem or Washington) unless there is a local connection to the story.
People with an interest in palestine should be reading the jerusalem site anyway, there's no need for it all to be mirrored over here.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.
I hope to have a story for you soon too.

Tim.

by C. Tue Jun 25, 2002 17:41

We need to update the features with an overview of the newswire. Some of this is technical, some is a time contribution (committed up front?) but we need to get the site to reflect the increased number of people who are posting newsire stories.

Seville, Shannon, Sectarianism, Ecotopia - all have been covered on the newswire in the last few weeks and could have been upgraded to a feature if we had a process in place - and knew who was supposed to do it. We need a meeting - which is reported back to the newswire and the mailing lists - to let people see how this process could work and to encourage involvement.

Saturday? Dublin city I presume - unless we have people from elsewhere?

Now that the summer is on us, exams, world cup and elections all past we can get some time commitments and produce more material. We have the build up to Nice to be ready for.

by Oliver O'Driscoll Tue Jun 25, 2002 18:08

I do not agree with Tim's comment that only local or Irish related stories should be published. Issues such as Palestine, West Papua and Aceh are or rather should be of interest to all of us.

by Journalist Tue Jun 25, 2002 19:07

For our sake have some patience and perseverance
I want to post articles but we cant all jump when
pessimists say to.

by Blisset Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:25

I wrote the original comment - how about 2pm in Conways downstairs on Saturday . .

I am mostly pissed off that the newswire is working great but that the features/editorial element of the site has died and it needs to change to get people to use the site regularly. We need to talk about this as we have squandered all the new readers we got around the time of RTS - thousands hits per day over a sustained period up from hundreds - I feel this site should function as more than an extended chatroom for a couple of hundred activists of various left-wing shades. It is meant to be an alternative news service. Think about the fact that Indo and IT are now unavailable without pay - there is an opening there to set a different agenda with a good news service but it is not happening.

by Eoin Dubsky Wed Jun 26, 2002 14:04 info at refuelingpeace dot org

For a start, I think the IMC project is very exciting, and I'm not at all worried that there's a lul now on IMC Ireland. I haven't seen the access stats for the site, though I guess that a portion of visitors for a while were from colleges, and now that these people are at home or on holidays they don't have free access to the net anymore. Changes are due, but I expect that traffic will grow after the summer anyway.

In brief, what I think we should change:

1. Editorial features
These should be moved away from the centre of the homepage, and authors should be acknowledged properly. I can think of no other news source where editorial features are at the centre of the homepage/coverpage. Lets move the newswire to the centre and the editorial features to where the newswire now resides (in the right-most column).
Even if we do move the editorial features elsewhere in the site, I believe that it would be good if we acknowledge who said what. It bothers me that, for example, in the Irish Times the Editor invites people to write an editorial but doesn't acknowledge who they are (same page as 'letters to the editor').

2. Who said what?
Accountability. How can we be truthful about what corporations and governments are doing if we can't be truthful to ourselves even? Who am I replying to? Who is it that said such-and-such? Who will be held to account for saying it? If you believe what you're saying to be true then why won't you stand over it?

Now these two issues are about the IMC website only. As an organization it has other issues, including how decisions are made, meetings, accounts, etc... and for stuff like that I think we could learn a lot from the Community Media sector. NearFM have a very good handbook online which some people might find helpful for addressing these issues (http://www.nearfm.ie/handbook.html).

by iosaf mac diarmada - reclaim the streets Wed Jun 26, 2002 15:45 iosaf at email dot com codols 23- x placa george orwell, barcelona 08002, catalunya, spain 0034 93 412 04 30

the title I regularly use
i like it
its a quote from Samuel Beckett.
sam the great.

and its true.

I am curious to know was there a connection between the RTS action at the beginning of
May and the apparent death of IMC Eire.

how dead is IMC Eire?

it seems quite dormant
no new stuff for a while.

get it together please.
The irish states have always been amongst the most crypto-fascist in Europe.
That has led to marginalisation of debate.
Mass imigration and exiles of thinkers and activists.

My advice would be to try again, but the home crew of IMC should stay off demo sites.

and continuing pressure shall be applied to the state agencies in the majority Irish state to ensure that proper rules of engagement are adhered to in the future.

There is at present a GArdai inquiry, which should as all other inquiries in Ireland prove a whitewash.

Do it again people please.
but do not do anything even if it seems fun or right or hip to endanger the most important campaigns in Ireland.

Those to shut THORP.

Those to establish parity of esteem between the communities and traditions of the north.
Those to enfranchise the migrant citizens of Eire.
Those to welcome migrants and educate the Irish against racism.

Off the top of my head these are the most important priorities for Irish activists.

The Irish states are different.

do not try and emulate mainland european campaigns or demonstration methods there, it really is a very different place.

Oh yes while I´m imparting hard won and long earned advice, The majority Irish state is still technically neutral.

Irish activists should be hard at work using that neutrality.
I suggest contact with the other neutral state or non-aligned state IMC´s.

Austria, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden.

Together we have a duty to fight the new wave of immigration / alien laws, and the full spectrum dominance of North American New World Order.

ná díol caorach dhubh
ná cheannaigh caorach dhubh
is ná bí gan caorach dhubh.

don´t buy a black sheep
don´t sell a black sheep
never be without a black sheep

I am an ageing black sheep
in exile from my land
which I love
I send you love and respect.

Ireland must have an IMC.
a friend of Connolly once joked that every Irish
movement begins with a split.
I hope it was not that issue.
as there are many with fine experience in Eire who could help = seek them out.

beir bua.

O as if = iosaf

autonomy begins with self.

by Des Wed Jun 26, 2002 17:27

I have no problem with Eoin's suggestion re editorial features, while in principle I believe in standing over what I say, there are people who have to be careful and use "pen names" for various reasons.

by Daithi Wed Jun 26, 2002 19:20 macsithd at tcd dot ie

A lot of the issues raised here (accountability, local v global) have also been discussed in other IMCs.

There is quite a useful set of documents available at http://process.indymedia.org

Some especially good documents are on spamming (http://process.indymedia.org/letter_to_spammers.php3) and free speech (http://process.indymedia.org/on_censorship_and_free_speech.php3), also some interesting stuff on http://internal.indymedia.org

It's also helpful, in my opinion, to look at some of the other IMC sites and see what problems they've been having.

Hope to see you all at the meeting if/when it's confirmed.

Daithí

by Eoin Dubsky Wed Jun 26, 2002 20:03

What reason for using a pseudonym could be important enough to demand that nobody gets to know who is writing which news story?

Remember IMC isn't usenet -- this isn't alt.something-something.recovery or whatever. Why the "pen name"??

by Des Wed Jun 26, 2002 20:56

Eoin, our "free society" is not as free as some people may think, for employment reasons, some people posting articles or comments may wish that their real names not be used.

by Eoin Dubsky Wed Jun 26, 2002 21:55

Okay, so maybe the time stamp is an issue (if it shows that at exactly the same time you should have been working you were posting a message then that's not good). Perhaps we could work on a posting form that allows you to write news stories but only post them later (so it *looks* like you weren't slacking off during work)? ;-)

[ad]
There's one on the test site I'm toying with over at http://slack.redbrick.dcu.ie/imc/
[/ad]

by Des Wed Jun 26, 2002 22:19

Eoin, I assume from your last posting that you are a student. I guess you can't have a comeback for expressing your views on various issues when in college. When you enter the world of work in our "free society", you will learn that things are just a little different. Activity on issues such as solidarity with workers on strike or for example workers at Dunnes during the anti-apartheid struggle many years ago can result in being blacklisted. I have got personal experience of that practice. To put it bluntly, at times you have got to cover your ass.

by Eoin Dubsky Wed Jun 26, 2002 23:10

Apologies to others reading this -- I don't know "Des"'s email address, so I'm posting this reply here -- ideally we would take this over to email or something like that. (sorry!) :-)

Maybe I'm being unfair or ignorant, I don't know. You brought up the issue of the Dunnes strike. Those ten women and one guy didn't just get "blacklisted" for sticking by their union resolution to resist apartheid, they were fired. From what I've heard it was a hard and bitter struggle, but they did that in solidarity with the people struggling against a bitter racist regime in South Africa.

Now how can we *honestly* report on acts of bravery and solidarity like that -- people sticking their heads up for others, even when it hurts -- while sneaking about on the internet with make-believe names so nobody can tell we were ever here? The Dunnes workers may never have lost their jobs if they'd chosen, say, to just secretly sabotage S. African produce in their shop... but they didn't do that...

Now that I've said all that, perhaps there's really no need to go that deep into it. To me it simply doesn't make any sense for a *news* source to be filled with articles by anonymous posters.

-Eoin

by Des Wed Jun 26, 2002 23:28

As I said before, you are obviously a student. As someone who has experience of the world of work, I can assure you that expressing your opinion freely while in theory possible, is not always a good idea. Re Dunnes, I know one person whose employment prospects were so enhanced by her principled stand that she had to emigrate to Australia. I am well aware of the history of the Dunnes dispute, I was a member of the anti-apartheid movement for many years. I also know of other people in certain employements who would be reluctant to put it mildly to engage in public activity.

Btw Eoin, we have never met, but I do know people who know you.

by William Thu Jun 27, 2002 18:02 vilmeith at hotmail dot com Seattle

I think you are being a bit hard on yourselves.

The coverage of the RTS action in Dublin was quite good.

I thought it was even better than Seattle Indymedia's coverage of the April 20 RTS action here. Its funny how cops act the same wherever they are.

Though Seattle cops are more into Evil Empire riot fashion wear. That black leg padding is positively praetorian. I had to resist the temptation to yell out, "I am Spartacus!"

If you need volunteers, I'll come help you. I am completely sick of the USA. I need a new country to be sick of .

I can see why some always use pen names. From your comments, it seems that there is "private" repression through employment in Ireland. In the US it's more of a government thing. They are definately headed in a neo-fascist direction here. The head of the MInistry of Internal Security, Ashcroft, went on TV and told the populace that they would all be subject to regular surveillance in the future.

Though I suppose the government aspect is quite "big" in the North of Ireland.

IN CONCLUSION..... be proud of your site and work! And on top of it all you have good software. It takes FOREVER to upload stories and comments on the Seattle site.

uh oh. I put the milk to close to the coffeemaker and it has now transformed into cottage cheese. Time to go to Piggy Mart. I will leave you with the new motto of the Spirit of 1784:

GOD BLESS THE HOMELAND!

by Sean Routher Fri Jun 28, 2002 19:48

RE: debate over "accountability"

Eoin you haven't got a clue on at least two points. First off, there are many workplaces where the knowledge that you hold "left wing" views will seriously impede your work life. It will make it impossible to get along with the actively right wing colleagues that you cooperate with on a day to day basis. It's all well and good to be "principled" and "sticking your head up" if YOU want to. However there's a lot of us that don't want to take the shit that comes with that. We have jobs that we live by and we want to be able to continue doing them without being harrassed. I've seen it happen and don't want it to happen to me.

Second, how in the name of God do you expect to be able to determine who's who just by what they write on their article? Are you going to insist on a retinal scan for anyone that gets to post to your priveleged sanctum of Indymedia?

Finally, what do you achieve by insisting on what you call "accountablility", but which is really identification? It seems to me that you are intellectually lazy and that you want to have a simple way of knowing what to believe and who to cheer for. In order to achieve this you are willing to insist that we all have to feed information about ourselves to whoever reads this site.

p.s. if you believe that my name is "Sean Routher" then you're more of an idiot than you've already demonstrated.

by Des Fri Jun 28, 2002 21:21

"Sean" I agree with your comment, Eoin may be a very sincere and genuine person but he appears to be just a little naive re the real world. I have got the boot from jobs for my polital views and trade union activites.

by Eoin Dubsky Sat Jun 29, 2002 04:30

I've changed my mind. Sean and Des are right. I'm being smug, sanctimonious and self-righteous. I've brought this point up before and it's been answered, but I just thought that I'd raise it again. See you all at the meeting!
Also, I want to apologize to everyone at IMC Ireland for my deviant practices. I never meant it to go this far and I'm deeply ashamed.

by Des Sat Jun 29, 2002 09:17

I have made a number of very basic points, in principle I believe in standing over what I say. Anyone who knows me would be aware that my political views are very much left of centre. In certain situations, I would not broadcast that fact. I know of many people who would be reluctant to participate in any public activity for employment reasons. As I stated in a previous comment, I have problems in that regard for my political and trade union activites.

Finally, I not engage in name calling in any discussion. You are entitled to your point of view on this issue and so am I.

by Aidan O'Brien Mon Jul 08, 2002 22:17

Everyone enganged in this debate didn't turn up at the last Indymedia meeting or bother to comment on the minutes of the last meeting.

Great whinging and pontificating about IMC and what it should be is fantastic, but rolling up your sleaves and particapting is another matter.