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USI is dead. Long live the student movement.
 national |
rights, freedoms and repression |
opinion/analysis
 Monday November 28, 2005 21:26 by Jane Horgan Jones
Time for a frank debate on the future of USI.
It is time for a full, frank and honest debate about USI ; both the future of the organisation itself, and more locally, UCDSU’s continued involvement within its structures. Serious questions are being asked about the direction of USI and whether UCDSU is a union that wishes to remain associated with that direction. I would like to state from the outset that I believe, and always have believed, in the idea of a national students’ union. Third level education in Ireland has traditionally been sidelined, underfunded, and overlooked, and there is definite need for an organised national movement of students to oppose these constant threats to our collective futures. For these reasons, it is with a heavy heart that I have come to the following conclusion.
USI is no longer that national union we all envisage. It has not been that national union for quite some time, and it will not be again.
As a member of any organisation, it would be ridiculous to remain involved simply because of what that organisation theoretically could be. There has to be a line ; disagreement is possible to a certain extent, and if an organisation decides to meet on Tuesday whereas you want to meet on Wednesday, then that can be overlooked in favour of the bigger picture. But when an organisation departs so dramatically from what your idea of what that organisation should be, and when the reasons you had for joining and supporting that organisation have been all but destroyed, then it is time to leave and rebuild.
This article will deal with the current situation in USI as I see it under a number of different headings ; the lack of democracy in the organisation, the substantial costs involved in affiliation, the unwillingness to be a truly “national” union, and the behaviour of individual officers last Saturday.
I want to be part of a democratic organisation. I do not wish to be part of an organisation that has no respect for 50%+1 votes by its membership. The Article 4 Constitutional Amendment, passed by an overwhelming majority on Saturday, dictated that motions which do not “directly affect” students now have to receive a 2/3 +1 majority of those voting to be passed. I understand and respect the positions and views of those who feel that education and welfare should be the sole focus of the national union, but I have nothing but contempt for those who believe that these aims should be achieved by removing the right of any USI member to bring a motion to Congress and have it voted on in the same way as any other motion, no matter what its subject matter is.
Beat us on the issues, and beat us on the arguments, but beat us through democracy and not by this sneaky, reprehensible amendment.
The completely unworkable nature of this motion also seems to have escaped those who voted in favour, and will ruin the work of National Congress more so than these people believe an international or national affairs motion ever has. There is hardly any other phrase more open to interpretation than “directly affecting students”. I would argue that any issue which gets students out on the streets, lobbying their TDs, bringing motions to their own SU Councils and giving up their own free time to campaign on is directly affecting these students. Otherwise, why would they bother?
The example of the bin tax consistently used by Tony McDonnell on Saturday as a “non-student issue” is also completely laughable. Every student who lives away from home has to personally pay the bin tax. I have to pay the bin tax. One of our class reps in severe financial difficulty has to pay the bin tax. It is a completely valid position to argue that the bin tax is an issue which affects an inordinate amount of students, and should be something USI are campaigning on. But Tony McDonnell thinks it isn’t, I think it is….who knows what Steering Committee (who are not students, but who hold the power to decide on what “affects students” or not) will think?
I refuse to be part of an organisation in which value judgements on what affects students and what doesn’t are made by people who are not students. It is ridiculous that this situation is deemed acceptable by so many in USI. If the INTO or ASTI suddenly decided that decisions about what issues they should be active on should be decided by the farming unions, then it would be equally as bizarre as the current situation in USI.
The most galling thing about the lack of democracy in USI is that we are paying a shocking amount of money for the privilege of being members of an organisation which has such contempt for the democratic process and believes in the stifling of debate.
For those of you who might be unaware, UCDSU pays annual affiliation fees of over 92 thousand euro to USI. This is enough to pay for not one, but two sorely needed councillors, every year.
True enough, sabbatical officers get training from USI for a week during the summer, and this is quite useful. But the unbelievable thing is that this costs us an EXTRA 2,500 euro, on top of our affiliation fees. Not even training, which should be such a basic component of the services provided to us by USI, is included in our affiliation fees. And despite this, despite the fact that it’s not because of our affiliation fees that we’re allowed to attend training, USI still refuses to allow non-affiliated colleges to attend, which might go some way to encouraging them to rejoin and make USI a truly national union once again. Instead, they insist on remaining a cliquey elite club, blind to the bigger picture of getting these colleges back in again, a tight fisted and blinkered version of what should be a welcoming and inclusive national union. A motion passed at last Congress even refused to give these colleges the training material which was circulated at UOS.
I do not want to be part of an organisation so short-sighted that it cannot see the benefits in making serious efforts to show unaffiliated colleges the benefits of being involved. And for those who say, “But if we let them come to training, why would they bother rejoining at all?” then all that tells me is that you believe the only worthwhile thing USI does all year is training. Which may well be true, and begs the question…why are we still beating our heads off a brick wall here?
I’m going to deal now with the events of Special Congress on Saturday, and why it copper fastened for me the reasons why I find the idea of continuing within USI so reprehensible.
UCDSU had voted democratically (50%+1 might I add, not 2/3+1) to oppose the motion on Article 4. I was always under the impression that this was our right to do so, and that we could exercise this right without fear of ridicule, jeering or abuse. How wrong I was.
Members of the UCDSU delegation who spoke against Article 4 were consistently heckled and laughed at by members of other college’s delegations. No apologies afterwards were forthcoming, there were no requests that these offenders be ejected, and there was no shame at all or realisation of how offensive that is to a speaker who has every right to oppose or support any motion at Congress. However shocked I was by those events though, the actions of the USI President in his closing summation on the motion were even more despicable.
I refuse to be part of an organisation where the President feels it is acceptable to call an entire affiliate delegation, not to mention his own officer board, “careerist hacks who only want to further their own political ambitions”. Our crime? Simply opposing a motion that he supported. Even more disturbing than his comments however, was the reaction he got from the floor. The applause was so loud that I’m genuinely surprised they didn’t stand up for him. Why are we paying 92,000 for the privilege of being insulted and laughed at? Are we complete morons or just consistently blinded by some ideological vision of what a national union should be, even when USI is so blatantly not that union? It is rotten, corrupt and devoid of any of the components which should be present in the national movement of students.
I unreservedly stand by Ciarán Weafer and his actions on Saturday. If someone can point out to me any difference between what he did and what Tony McDonnell did, then please go right ahead. Why is it that Tony can call over 40 members of USI careerist hacks, but when he is called one himself, the offender is ejected from the hall? Silent protest is a common occurrence in Dáil Eireann, in the Scottish Parliament, in debates everywhere. Ciarán’s protests were a lot less disruptive than those of the delegates who thought it appropriate to heckle and laugh during speeches made by the UCDSU delegation, but as I’ve said, there were no apologies for those interruptions, nor were those delegates asked to leave. Last Saturday was entirely different to last March. Tony and Ciarán did exactly the same thing, but Tony was applauded, and Ciarán was ejected.
“It showed not only contempt for the presdient of USI, but contempt for the rest of Congress and the rest of the UCDSU delegation”
What about the contempt shown for the UCDSU delegation and their democratic mandate by the USI President? Selective memory is a dangerous thing.
Lastly, the comments made by Tony McDonnell about SIPTU workers were disgusting and inexcusable, especially considering the free protection given by SIPTU to every member of USI. To say from an official platform that the reason our education is underfunded is because of SIPTU workers claiming benchmarking increases is completely unacceptable. I would encourage SIPTU to pull out of the current arrangement as a result, and have written to Jack O’Connor the President of SIPTU about this matter. It is an attack on the ordinary workers of this country for claiming the entitlements agreed on by the government and should be treated with the contempt it deserves.
The next few months are crucial for the future of USI. UCDSU must decide what part it wants to play. Already there is talk of disaffiliation in most of the other large colleges, and two sabbatical officers (Deputy President and Education Officer) have resigned today as a result of last Saturday’s events. I believe in the concept of a national student movement as much as anyone, but I do not wish to make this rotten and undemocratic organisation relevant by remaining a part of it, and I won’t blindly stay on no matter how much the actions of the organisation and individual officers compromise my principles just for the sake of it.
USI is dead. Long live the student movement.
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Comments (40 of 40)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40Ruth Ní Eidhin is a graduate of Trinity College Dublin where she studied History & English Literature. She was Deputy President of Trinity College Students' Union in 2004/2005, and served as a faculty convenor in the previous year.
As Deputy President/Campaigns Officer, she is responsible for co-ordinating USI campaigns over the coming year - everything from protests against the government to information-based awareness campaigns run in conjunction with other officers. She is responsible for supporting autonomous campaigns and the work of regional officers on local issues. She also deputises for and assumes the role of the president in his absence.
Daithí Mac Síthigh is the USI Education Officer. He took up this full-time position in July 2005, after serving for a year as Education Officer in TCD Students' Union. Previously, he was a class representative, and also served one term as access officer. His responsibilities include working on education policy and academic affairs, representing Irish students at ESIB (the National Unions of Students in Europe), and chairing the Education Working Group.
Daithí is also responsible for the disability and postgrad campaigns within USI, and is a member of the Higher Education Training and Awards Council (HETAC), the advisory group to the National Office for Equity of Access to Higher Education, and the Irish Higher Education Quality Network (IHEQN).
QUOTE: I unreservedly stand by Ciarán Weafer and his actions on Saturday. If someone can point out to me any difference between what he did and what Tony McDonnell did, then please go right ahead.
For those of us not au fait with USI politics a clear statement of who the president is, who Ciarán Weafer is, what they did, etc would be useful. I can sort of guess it from the long report above, but it's by no means clear. Thanks.
I regret to say I am not suprised by the carry on of Tony McDonnell. The USI is a joke, most SU's have or are becoming jokes. I am a class rep in DCU and every two weeks I go to Union Council and listen to the non-stop "good on your CVism" that has risen to the top of our union. I was recently pondering the options on leaving the USI, surely it is our fault the USI has gotten like this, after all McDonnell was elected. What can we do as students to change the way the unions are linked, reinvigorate the student populations interest in the SU and build a national union which is actually representational as opposed to filled with careerist hacks ala McDonnell who are unknown by the average student.
QUOTE: For those of us not au fait with USI politics a clear statement of who the president is, who Ciarán Weafer is, what they did, etc would be useful. I can sort of guess it from the long report above, but it's by no means clear. Thanks.
Ciaran W was UCD's deputy president last year. The USI president is Tony MacDonnell. There's a bit more detail on the UCDSU newswire. I wasn't at the meeting, so I don't know exactly who said what to who and all that.
Thanks for the article above, I'm no longer a student and don't really have anyway to know what is still going on with USI but reports and updates such as yours are always welcome.
That's fairly shameful about the whole Mc Donnell stuff, can tell you from years of experience that he is definitely the careerist in this situation. I was around when he started this student politics shit, ah shiver, the memories...
Thanks again.
USI is no longer an affective organisation. This is my fourth year as a student and I'm yet to be convinced that they're worth the money we pay them. I certainly do not think that UCDSU is getting any value for money out of the €92,000 we pay them annually.
Three years ago, there was a referendum in UCD to disaffiliate with USI, this referendum was defeated. The reasons people wanted to stay affiliated was because we needed a strong national voice. We do not have that with USI anymore, and we haven't had it for a long while now.
Disaffiliate.
What's going to happen when you're disaffiliated?
Use the money saved to hire 2 badly-needed counselors.
...what's your plan for when the Govt tries to bring back fees?
Hanafin has said they're off the agenda "for the lifetime of this Government". At the most, this Govt has 18 Months left.
I am appalled at what I read. Have Daithi and Ruth really resigned. This is awful. Under the USI constitution, I believe that you have just to give 30 days notice to impeach the president.
Why not do that, instead of leaving USI?
I am someone who was involved in the stuident movement and USI for many years and believe still that it is the only effective voice that student can use to articulate their issues. There needs to be a strong voice to stand up for student issues. I believe that USI is that body.
The careerist right wingers have to be gotten rid of.
That should be the aim of the progressive forces in USI.
It will be difficult and may initially fail, but an alliance can be built right across the colleges that can oust the right wing careerists. This is the problem that has existed for years. The time is now to challenge this and to find and assist in booting out the GAA/Fianna Fail turncoats across the colleges.
This is badly overdue. We need a national union. It need not necessarily be USI, but I think that it is better to preserve what is there and go hell for leather to change it.
Impeach the President, but take it to the colleges. Get students on the ground involved. Initiate referenda that can force the Presidents of those colleges to impeach him.
What Tony said about SIPTU is a disgrace and shows how completely unsuitable he is to be President of USI. I have known no other President of USI (other than Dermot Lohan 1998-1999) with such reprehensible views. I, like many, thought that Tony had changed from the boy that stood at congress in 2003 and opposed a stance on refugees.
I was wrong.
For a bit of background: Tony McDonnell said that the problems in Irish Education were due to workers demanding too much in benchmarking. He also blankly criticised those who opposed his dismembering of the union and called them “careerists”. Having been unfortunate enough to meet Tony on a number of occasions, I can empathise with those who express disgust with the leadership of USI.
There is no doubt that Tony McDonnell & friends conducted themselves in a disgraceful manner, but I don’t think that is any reason to tear down the structures of our National Union. Its understandable that people are disgusted at the behaviour of many of the leaders of our movement, but that is no reason to overhaul existing structures.
There is no national alternative to USI. FUSU is a joke. USI was a decrepit and broken organisation in 2002 when fees were reintroduced. It took action from the bottom up to change broader political events back then. USI needs radical reform, and needs to be cleansed of the decrepit, disgusting people who are milling about the top.
Disaffiliating will do no good to the Student movement.
At this USI congress thingy on Saturday, how many delegates are there and what colleges are represented.
And how many delegates can each college send.
Lastly from what college were the 40 hecklers/right-wing squad from?
I and many others who where at Congress on Saturday believe the actions of UCD’s student union to have been disgraceful. In my opinion ‘they’ are what is wrong with USI.
Like last year many of their members show no respect for the other delegates and that is why we have been reduced to laughing at them. When up on the podium they seem to be shouting and preaching to us rather than participating in an adult debate.
Finally if Ciaran had a problem with Tony he should have got up on stage and said it. I have allot of respect for Ciaran as a speaker, but his silent protest was a joke.
When I was out in UCD we disafilliated then reafilliated and it was all a big waste of time. I presume you'll be having a refferendum yeah? Which wll cost a few quid and even if you win then in about two years time there will be another one to reaffilliate.
Besides the facts that the ISN member raised, you're better off in USI and trying to change it.
Stephen you should know that if UCD or UCG or any big colleges disaffiliate, then it will be the tiny unions like yours that will be left without solidarity and with no power. ciaran weefer was dignified in his stance. you were disgraceful in yours.
Remember USI still has 7 very capable officers. The resignation of Daithi & Ruth is dissapointing and I can fully understand their reasons for resigning and I support them if and when they decide to formally resign. However as their resignation is not formal yet, I am a strong believer that they will not leave USI and the policies they have worked extremely hard on all year. They are both very hard-working and capable officers who have been instrumental in rebuilding USI that has been dorment for two years.
I sat at October National Council over two years ago when news broke of USI's severe financial difficulty. At that National Council, Will Priestley, USI President at the time stated that USI had hit rock bottom. USI is overcoming this difficulty and will become stronger than ever. Remember though, USI will take time to recover and it needs the support of its members to be the organisation it should. It is therefore not just up to the 7 USI Officers but to all local student union officers, class reps and students to ensure USI is the organisation it's members need it to be.
What Tony said was dam right regarding SIPTU, they have done nothing except get in the way of Students' Unions.
What were SIPTU doing when colleges are underfunded and there are cuts all over the place? NO....they do not look to help the students.......they ask for more money with benchhmarking, so EVEN MORE cuts are bore
What do SIPTU do when the Students' Union calls for an increase in Library Opening hours??? No.....they do not instruct their members that it is for the good of the Union...instead they say it is a change in work conditions and ask for more money.
What have SIPTU done in a number of STudents Unions with employess, where the STudents Union is already in financial difficulty? Yes......you guessed it......asked for more monet to take away from the STudents' Union services that are already overneeded,
That's nice John. You think SIPTU should "instruct" its members to accept pay cuts so that student services can be funded. Great, so the people who work in UCD should tighten their belts so you can have more time in which to mis-spell simple words. Brilliant plan, brilliant. How on earth the student movement isn't striding forward with titans like you and Tony in the vanguard, god only knows...
I am pleased to hear that they are asking for more monet. Me personally I'm more of a van gogh man.
Hi Dan,
Its nice to see your eloqent style of arguing, my favourite is your part where you reply with an excellent argument........oh no wait.......you slagg off my spelling
Maybe you should look at what i said again and cop on, i never said that they had to accept pay cuts, i said that they were looking for more money! Annual pay increases unless i am mistaken
And good job on arguing against my other two points, maybe the reason why USI is so bad it because of people like you and your "annual protest" without having any solid facts or figures to back an argument up with.
If my spelling is incorrect, i apologise, please ignore my argument and and slagg my spelling off instead, it is a much more mature way of stating your opinion on an important issue
"Maybe you should look at what i said again and cop on, i never said that they had to accept pay cuts, i said that they were looking for more money! Annual pay increases unless i am mistaken"
Imagine looking for annual pay increase. What with our zero inflation and low cost nation. Not to mention our zero rip-off etc.
Great idea to impeach Tony. Pity theres no takers tho. Wonder why this is? Anybody involved this year knows the real story. Tony is the best Prez we've had for a long time and any impeachment would just be the sour grapes of UCD against everyone else. Just like the Constitution vote actually.
I take it 50%+1 voted in favour of the motion on Saturday? ? ? : )
Qualified majority voting is used by the EU, the GAA etc etc, it's hardly an affort to democracy or a scnadal of unprecedented
I've been to USI Congress three times. A lot of the motions bare little resemblence to the real problems students face on the ground. I refer to coca cola, columbia, sellafield etc.
Let me be clear before all the hardocre socialists miss the point. These MAY be very worthy tpics for debate, but hey, thats what the debating societies are about. It just as much applies to FF cumann teams going on about their pet issues.
Bin charges, minimum wage I can see effecting students, but bans on coca cola..? Most of the Unions in this country are a similar microcosm of USI's problems. A leftie union one year, a rightie backlash the following, politics being played by ALL 'sides' rather than focusing on the issues.
As for USI? like UCDSU they're good on providing services to their clients. But are they recognised nationally? hell no. And NEVER will be until there is votes/money at stake.
And let's be real, USI, UCD or any college will never get a real voting block going.
Democracy do you really believe Tony is the best President in a while???
If thats true why did he lose the Presidency the first time he went for it in 2004?
Why is it that two of the full-time officers of USI have resigned?
Can you not see a pattern? Everyone knows who the real USI careerist is............
Anyone who believes Tony is doing a good job needs to answer the question - what has he actually done this year or last year when he was Western Area Campaigns Officer?
Thanks John, I wouldn't credit myself with much eloquence, but then it's not necessary when confronted with someone like you. If workers don't get a regular pay rise, inflation means that they get a pay cut in real terms. Your grasp of economics is even worse than your spelling. The argument that you and Tony are putting forward is both tactically crazy and morally obscene.
Tactically crazy, because the student movement needs allies in its struggle for a better education system, and the trade unions involved in the education sector are the most obvious candidates. If we tell SIPTU and other unions that they should "instruct' their members to accept pay cuts, we can kiss goodbye to any kind of alliance.
Morally obscene, because to ask people who spend most of their working lives in our colleges, whether as lecturers, cleaners, catering staff or whatever, that their standard of living must fall so that we can get a few more computers or a few more text-books, is grotesque. I have been involved in many campaigns for a better deal for students (indeed, I'd say I've done far more in this regard than you or your ilk ever will) . It never even occured to me that we should blame people who do not have any control over the education budget for shortages, at a time when billions of euros in tax goes unpaid because the revenue commissioners don't have the stomach to pursue well-heeled crooks.
What next, John? Perhaps we should send our representatives out into the media, telling all and sundry that education is underfunded because of the greedy hospital patients, who insist on coming into hospital when they're not even terminally ill? And how about those greedy dole scroungers, who insist on getting a few extra euros in their unemployment benefit at every budget? Hang 'em all! The greedy bastards!
What a bright future USI has ahead of it, with luminaries like you...
Dan, just because i have disagreed with you doesnt mean you should revert to mindlesss and may i add childish insults.
The fact of the matter is, SIPTU have have a negative effect on students' education. I have never doubted their intentions, they have to look after their members first, which is fair enough by looking for becnhmarking. But because of this benchmarking, it is having a negaitive effect on students. FACT
I have just read over your comment again and i revert specifically to your point "say I've done far more in this regard than you or your ilk ever will".
How do you know how much i have done for USI? Have you even met me? Cop on to yourself
I wasn't there on Saturday, my student politics days are over, but I heard all about the conduct of Tony and his minions - vulgar, abusive and immature, flinging outrageous insults at other people then throwing a hissy fit when they got a taste of their own medicine. So I can't really be bothered showing one of Tony's cheerleaders much courtesy.
So far I've seen you demand that workers in colleges should take pay cuts so that you can get a little more money. Instead of joining forces with education unions to fight for more funding across the board (which could be paid for, for example, by some of the vast sums in tax on high earners that simply aren't collected), you decide to blame people who have no control over the education budget, simply because they want to maintain their income levels.
By the same logic, teachers' unions that demand more money for primary and secondary education are enemies of the student movement, because they are taking money that should be spent on colleges ... if you really can't see why this argument is both tactically disastrous and morally obscene, there's no point debating with you any further. If people like you are allowed to take control of USI, it will be comically easy for the government to reintroduce fees and force through other cutbacks. Students will have no allies and the arguments of their spokespeople will be rejected with contempt and horror by public opinion.
I've had to spend far too many hours of my youth listening to people like Tony McDonnell and Paddy Reilly argue bitterly against the idea that student unions should defend the rights of members who are threatened with deportation or homophobic attack, or indeed do anything but organise piss-ups and protest for more car-parking spaces for that section of the student body that doesn't need anyone lobbying on its behalf. I don't see any point showing these amoral scumbags any courtesy whatsoever - I'd rather call a spade a spade. If you fully endorse Tony McDonnell's position (including his opposition to the idea that USI should defend human rights), then you're beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned and civility is not required.
Regarding the International motion, none of the speakers, including the President or Paddy Reilly in the past have ever said that International Affairs are not important, they have just said that they should not be a priority of USI. And may i add this sentiment is shared by the majoirty of students in Ireland. So get over yourself. Since you refer to the TUI, does the TUI fight for international affairs? Does the INTO? No......because they realise that it is not their priority.
Any by the way, do you even bother to read my posts? I am not saying it is wrong the Siptu are looking for bencmarking,i am saying it is having an adverse effect on students, which it is. FACT once again. If i was a caretaker, lecturer etc, i would still have the same opinion.
I like the small little dig at the parking protest in Galway i am assuming. So you are saying it is importamt to promote the rights of minoroty members being deported or have homophobic attacks, but you think it unfair to look for more spaces for a minority mature students who had to come from claremorris, castebar, oranmore and in one case thurles every day? And may i add, paying for a car and comuting from the places (where im sure many had families) is a lot cheaper than moving to galway and renting or buying there. So are you saying it was wrong for NUIG to stand up and protest for a small number of students in dire need, who in effect would not be able to go to college?I smell a hypocrite
SO pretty much you are saying to me that i am not entitled to my own opinion?
Some bloody democracy your living in Dan, maybe thats the problem you have, i am completly mature enough to listen to your viewpoint, but your a kid when it comes to listening to me "im right, your wrong........so you are a bad person". Grow up. The fact of the matter is you are living in a country with a difference in opnions, have the decency to listen to them.
John – don’t be such a petulant idiot. I respect the fact that in our society, even ignorant cretins like yourself and Tony are entitled to an opinion. So too does everyone else here – try and deal with the issues here for a change.
Last year, the INTO passed anti coke motions at congress. That isn’t to say that should have to take our lead from other unions. We should take a critical look at all unions – including out own. It is my opinion that USI should take a stand on international affairs. It is your opinion that USI shouldn’t.
Your opinions are not necessarily the opinions of the “majority of students in Ireland”. Don’t try and kill honest debate by insisting it is so. Deal with the issues at stake. The last time I checked, a “majority” was 50% or more – why then do USI insist on a 60%+ majority for “non education” motions at council?
SIPTU – or any other union looking for benchmarking does not have an adverse effect in any way on students. I for one am happy to see my demonstrators, technicians, lecturers; service & support staff earn a living weige. Furthermore, it is simply a fact that happy staff makes happy students. None of the staff that I am in contact with on a daily basis in my college are excessively paid. They are entitled to ask for a pay rise to maintain their living standards – and in my opinion they are entitled to ask for a lot more too.
As a “student representative” you will be aware that 60% (a majority in real or USI terms) of Students work in part or full time jobs. Do you think that these students are entitled to join a union and demand benchmarking/pay increases? I’ve always done it, and I suspect (but wont claim like you doubtless would) that most students would too.
We live in a society that has more material wealth than at any time in its history. At the same time, we are seeing the backdoor introduction of fees and charges. We have amongst the most inequitable taxation systems in Europe. Fees & charges (regressive by nature) are hitting students and staff hard. Why not deal with these issues? Instead of fighting staff for resources, we should be demanding our share from the state & the richest sections of society.
Of course, that involves organising students – something yourself and Tony McDonnell have never done. It is left to unpaid and unresouced students to organise themselves in times of crisis.
I don’t think it is going to be beneficial to the student movement to break away from USI. It is as much my union as it is John or Tonys. I cannot see how we would be stronger without it – however ineffective its leadership.It is certainly time to put forward a strong left voice in the leadership. Elections for USI positions are far too often a choice between the ugly (Ben the Tory) and the awful (Tony the idiot). Solidarity and action can challenge the beast. Splitting – be it from our own or with other unions - can do no good.
I disagree if UCD or NUI Galway left we'd be the ones who suffer.
We're holding a referendum on USI in January and I for one will be voting to leave this bullshit organisation. Other 'Small' colleges are getting on just fine outside of USI, I hope our students vote to kick them off campus. I'm sick of getting nothing in return for our fees, communication is shocking.
Stephen is entitled to his own opinion, i found saturday amusing on both sides, i didn't heckle anyone but i found both sides being equally as rude to each other.
Gary
The trouble with student politics is that it has become too concerned with the left-right wing divide, rather than fighting on student issues (it has become too much like UCDSU, if you will!).
Anyone who tries to change anything is immediately attacked; often using the simple form of attack that someone is a right-wing careerist or a left-wing communist. This causes ordinary students and representatives to become disillusioned. The best people rarely rise up to top office, or are even willing to put themselves forward. That's why we have careerist people like Tony Mc'Donnell.
The reason why people like him won't get impeached is because they are surrounded by equally ineffective leaders. Colleges around the country this year are mainly represented by 'boys' who are content with a USI that let's them meet up regularly, drink, and discuss GAA issues. Simply put it is an old boys club.
This doesn't necessarily mean that the reactionaries in UCDSU are right in their approach either. Students ARE more concerned with fees than with the use of the Shannon stopover by the US military. They ARE more concerned with grants, welfare, equality, and disability than with the bin charges.
Remember that the bin charges are going up by 11 euro this year; but student reg fees are now a whopping 775 euro. Which is of most concern to students?
As Jane said in the opening piece "long live the student movement"; and this is not necessarily USI. What we need is a union full of ernest determined representatives of real students. Representatives who don't try to keep the GAA boys happy so they can get their FF seat in the Dail; nor representatives who bang on about non-core student issues like Coca-Cola so they can get their socialist worker / labour seat.
Actual student sounds very similar to a student who wrote recently in the UL student newspaper and even uses the same examples.
My problem is however that in a uni like Limerick only 80 students turned up to the AGM now it wasnt because we were discussing Iraq etc etc we were discussing the on campus alcohol policy, the student fees etc etc
Students still didnt come, so I say put your money where your mouth is to people. Student politics isnt all left wing shite, here in UL when student matters are up for discussion they still wont attend.
Just read the comments of Jane from UCD and Gary from IADT. Fair play I wish more people would put their position on the line instead of pissing around, there are so many people unhappy with USI for years but fail to do anything about it.
I would imagine that a new student body would be recognised before long, there's so many people outside the world of USI at the moment who are looking for their own representation, best of luck to them. USI is a mess, the same old faces meet up from the same old colleges and talk the same old shite every month spending their students money on travel, accomodation, food and drink.
There is something seriously corrupt and stale about USI and for as long as there is such a bitter divide and unhappyness in the current president I do not see how this organisation will progress. I'm hearing other colleges might leave this year also, death to USI is right, we want a union who will actually deliver for its affiliated unions and USI is gone past that now.
And come on, everyone with a brain known the government didn't just listen to USI on fees, there was more serious opposition to this from members of the government itself, most people recognise the PD's stopped this as much as we may dislike them.
Leave now, set up something new, nobody respects this organisation anymore.
"Remember that the bin charges are going up by 11 euro this year; but student reg fees are now a whopping 775 euro. Which is of most concern to students?"
OK, I'm being honest here. I'm not a student. but don't understand why you don't join the two here. If you are a struggling student surely you should join the two issues?
While knowing very little about the present difficulties in USI I've been to enough USI events over the years to notice the same patterns year in year out. Unfortunately USI, and many of the affiliated Unions, do not even think of themselves as Unions in the first place.
USI has the deserved reputation as a haven for budding political careerists to hone their skills and, as so many USI and SU officers are members of establishment parties, they rarely co ordinate any major actions that would embarass Fianna Fail and the PDs or put to much pressure on "the opposition" to take serious action on issues such as fees, housing, tenancy rights and disability.
Unfortunately, most students view their Student Unions and USI as a joke and a waste of money. This doesn't mean that everyone should disaffiliate or stop getting involved. It means genuine, militant students should retake their unions and use USI to advance serious issues rather than the individual soap operas and personal spats between officers that 99% of students have never heard of.
A serious drive should be launched, within colleges, for union activists to fight that their unions are 100% autonomous with no say by the college managements in their finances and elections.
Their are over 250,000 third level students in Ireland (North and South). An active militant USI could harness that membership to effect real change in society.
All student unions should be affiliated to a national union to represent all students effectively. The onus is then on individual SUs to ensure that USI delivers for students.
I wasn't at congress last weekend, but upon hearing about what happened i was almost ready to start collecting signatures for a dissaffiliation referendum. I assumed that upon withdrawing from USI, UCDSU would be able to start off its own student movement. I believe that USI is something of strategic importance to the student movement throughout the island of ireland. It gives us the plaform and structures for which to fight for the interests of students on a national level. I dont think that it is realistic of us to believe that if the threat of fees or cutbacks were to come back, all students would just naturally come together in solidarity. One cannot look at universities that have disaffiliated from USI in the past and say that they are the most active and campaigning unions in the country. Has pulling out of USI benefited UL, Maynooth or DCU?.
We also have to be mindful about who else is calling for disaffiliation from USI. I obviously wasnt around here in 2002, but from what i have read and from what i have heard, the dissafiliation campaign at the time was motivated by a very conservative agenda. There are those that dont want to be part a national union who are agitating the government on behalf of students. UCDSU is the biggest students union in the country and it would be very difficult for USI to cope both financially and organizational wise. The very presence of USI along with pressure exerted on the officer board at the time by student activists, many of them from UCD prevented the re-introduction of fees 3 years back. If the Union of students of Ireland was to disband, student activism would appear to be badly organized and we would be offering a carte blanche to the government to bring back in fees. Some people say that fees are off the agenda, they are far from being off the agenda, firstly because we already have a registration fee that is higher than tuition fees in some countries. We also have the OECD report and the WAG report. recently many influential economists and monetarist think-thanks like the national competitveness council have called for the re-introduction of tuition fees.
It is with great reluctance that i defend an organisation that is presided over by a rediculous President like Tony McDonnell. However i believe that just like society as a whole, USI is only as good as how its run, and who runs it. I believe that the very principle of a national organisation to represent students is worth fighting for. We have to ask ourselves are we unhappy with the performance of the president of USI, and the recent constitutional ammendments or are we unhappy with USI itself. We are part of a democratic organisation and we should at least try and further a progressive agenda using the structures that are in place. 92,000 euro is an awful lot of money, but for that we get a national organisation of vital importance to the well being of students with regard to education and with regard to the wider world. Its relatively not that much of a cost to students when one anticipates the effect of every student being 15,000 euro in debt upon getting an undergraduate degree if tuition fees were to be brought back in. Some may argue that we can organize campaigns on national issues by ourselves. Of course we can organize campaigns on national issues by ourselves, but it would be of great benefit to have a national union that is simultanousely fighting for the benefit of students that we could use as a platform and to put pressure on the officers that are in there. Withdrawing from USI without even trying to change what we dont like about the organisation would be a regressive move and reactionary on our behalf.
Could anyone please tell me what exactly happened last saturday? Thanks
Perhaps the biggest problem with USI today is the requirement we have for blowhards and milquetostes (in equal number) from the left to spout off their nonsense before we do the job of sorting out the organisation.
I was present at the brainstorm when Ben Archibald first proposed the original 'Winning for Our Members' motion. The objective was quie simple; to create a qualification for motions which did not meet the core founding objectives of the National Union.
USI at the time was emerging from serious financial difficulties, and the objective was to streamline and turn the craft into the waves, concentrate on education and students, and deliver meaningful results for colleges actually interested in the the education system. The idea of focussing on what we agree on and what we're good at is borne of good science and common sense.
The reality is that the student movement in Ireland has no agreed political ideology; there is no agreement on the bug questions of international politics, environment or economics. There doesn't need to be, for USI to be effective at changing the education landscape, something our people do rather well.
Every new student activist wants to start from year zero and change the world from scratch. This rarely works, and when it does, it works in small facets of student life. Will Preistley and Ben Archibald steadied the ship, Colm Jordan made us a recognised national entity, blah, blah blah. It seems to me that USI is at its best when it is at its boldest on education, where it actually stands a chance of getting things done.
HR.
Incidentally, Archie voted for Cameron.
Hey Hugo,
Of course you were there when Ben Archibald first proposed the original 'Winning for Our Members' motion because Hugo you are Ben Archibald.There are some ppl you just cant fool.