A Public Talk Given At Trinity College By Jimmy Massey, 2nd October 2005

international | anti-war / imperialism | feature

Tuesday December 06, 2005 20:04

by BP

"the enemy that I found and that I destroyed, were civilians"

Report on a talk given by ex US marine Jimmy Massey at Trinity College while he was in Ireland to testify as a witness during the trial of the Pit Stop Ploughshares.

Start Transcript:

"Now I, ehm, I usually have a lot to say and my speech, I have it in my mind and I can rattle it off at any given moment, but, eh, I'm going to be completely honest with you, I've been on a mission and I've been seeking.

Photo of Jimmy Massey In the Marine Corps my primary mission was to seek and destroy, pretty cut and clear. I think the phrase, somebody mentioned the phrase to me today and, eh, it's still with me and I'm going to share that with you, this phrase that was, eh, presented to me today - I was called a criminal. And, eh, you know it really hit me because it is something I have been running from, and then I got a double dose today when I was in the Irish court. The Irish court and the American court are like night and day. And over the course of listening to the prosecutor and the defence, and especially the testimony that the Doctor of International Law and the Geneva conventions, when he got up and gave his spiel.

In a deep, dark space in my heart, I realised today that I am a war criminal. I never wanted to admit that. I knew what I did it was a violation of the Geneva conventions and International Law. But when you tell it to Americans and you explain the scenario of what happens, the Americans dismiss it as 'fog of war' or 'collateral damage'.

My true test of humanity came today, because when I went back to my hotel room I had to look in the mirror and I had to bitterly swallow what I had done while I was in Iraq.

I guess my journey has led me to Ireland for a purpose and I just wanted to share that with you. I grew up having the best of both worlds, I grew up along the Gulf Coast of Texas and in western North Carolina where I currently live now. It took me many years and for me to become a recruiter for me to understand that I was an economic conscript. And all the young men that I signed up in the Marine Corps over my three years as a recruiter, was 75.

I live in the area where I recruited, so there isn't a waking moment of the day that I don't think about the families of the men and women that I put into the Marine Corps and what they're going through in this war.

My only freedom that I have now is my voice, because I'm incarcerated, I'm incarcerated in my mind, because of what I have seen and what I witnessed and what I took part in.

I thought by writing a book that somehow I could alleviate the demons of the war - but it hasn't helped, so I guess I'll continue along my journey in trying to seek the questions and the answers of why my government has done what they've done.

I remember the first true taste of humanity that I got was from a little boy in the city of Karbala in Iraq. I, eh, was on guard duty, I was the officer in charge of the guard. I was sitting up at the front gate, we had taken over an abandoned hotel in Karbala and turned it into our little mini-compound. Generally there was about 50 to 100 Iraqis that would be in front of the hotel, looking for work or asking for compensation for property they had lost, when, like Moses parting the Red Seas, this man and this child came walking out of the crowd and as they approached the front fence I got up and I met them. The man began to explain to me that the child needed medicine, and he showed me the medicine, and it was insulin, the child was a diabetic.

So I led them into the compound and I immediately got on the radio to the battalion chief, eh, surgeon, and told them that they needed to come down to the plaza. When they showed up I was rather surprised because the first thing that the medical officer said to me is, "Is that the man and is that the child?" and I said "Yes" and he said "Staff Sgt, I can't help them" and he began to explain how this man and this child had been to all the marine camps in Karbala looking for insulin.

I became very irate and I began to question the medical officer and I said "Do you mean to tell me that we can truck thousands of gallons of fuel across one of the harshest deserts in the world, meals and medical supplies for Marine and Navy personnel, but we can't provide something as simple as insulin for a dying child?" And as I looked over at my Marines they were playing with the child, giving him high-fives and candy, and I thought to myself, "Is this what we're here for?" So I had to go to this man and this child and explain to them that I didn't have any insulin, and turn away this child. There isn't a waking moment that I don't think about that child - this face is permanently burned and etched into my mind.

On a bright sunny day on the outskirts of Baghdad, before Baghdad fell, we were setting up a checkpoint when this red Kia, meaning the car manufacturing company Kia, comes speeding towards our checkpoint. We gave a hand and arm signal - Stop - then we fired a warning shot - Stop - the vehicle didn't, so we discharged our weapons into the vehicle. There were four occupants total, three were hit and were expiring fast - we began to provide medical attention while we were searching through the car looking for weapons or any type of terrorist related propaganda - of course we didn't find any.

Meanwhile the driver of the car was going around and questioning my Marines as to why we had shot, and then he began to cry at some of my Marines that they were terrorists. The driver then watched his brother who was one of the occupants in the car, die. Finally the driver got up and he walked towards me and he stuck his finger out and he said " You did this! You killed my brother!" People ask me, when did I make a conscious decision to change my thoughts and mindset - that was the moment.

You might say I got a crash course or a PhD in Humanity over a three month time period when I was in Iraq.

You see I was expecting to meet "the enemy", because the main job and purpose of the United States Marine Corps is to meet the enemy on the battlefield and to destroy him, that's all a marine is good for - but the enemy that I found and that I destroyed, were civilians.

So I went to my commanding officer and I began to explain to him how I felt - of course they didn't like my stance - finally the day came when my Lt asked me, "Staff Sgt, how do you honestly feel about Iraq?" and I told him, "Well sir, I honestly feel that we are committing genocide and that we are leaving behind depleted uranium to ensure continued genocide."

Do I think that we are committing genocide in Iraq? - No! However, I am worried about things like depleted uranium, I am worried about the chemical exposure that happened during the first Gulf War when we blew up the bunkers.

I was in Japan at an international peace conference when a doctor from Basra began to show us a slide show of all the abnormalities and birth defects that's happening in Iraq. Though the American government will never admit it, to the contamination of depleted uranium in the first Gulf War also.

When I was discharged from the Marine Corps on December 31st of 2003, I went back to western North Carolina, I guess maybe I went back to the scene of the crime, and I told myself that I'm going to put that behind me, that I'm never gonna speak about the Marine Corps, I didn't want anything to do with it.

But my wife read an editorial comment in our local newspaper and made a comment back, next thing you know the phone is ringing off the hook with reporters wanting to know my story. Finally, having seen the total deaths that we had incurred in Iraq, I made up my mind to speak out. You see, I sold my soul to the Marine Corps and every day I fight to get it back. The only power that I have is my voice, but I'll be honest with you, it gets harder, because the American people haven't fully, they haven't came full circle yet, they haven't realised ...

So, you didn't get the full speech tonight, and I apologise ... I had to come to grips and terms today with what I did, and it hit me pretty hard.

So I just want to say that the government, the US government, is not going to pick up the pieces or the broken lives of the returning soldiers that are coming home, it's their community. It's their community that has to deal with it, and it's the community that has to band together and support the troops - there will be no government handouts for the returning soldiers - they have to come home to an economy that's slowly dwindling, there are no more jobs, they're all going to China or South America - I watched western North Carolina just dry up. I remember once where the textiles and the factories that was there, and now it's a place for retirees.

So I don't know what the future holds, but all I can do is continue to speak. I'm no hero, any idiot can run on the battlefield with a rifle. The true heroes are you, because it's you that has to pick up the pieces, that has to heal the wounded. So I thank you for allowing me to come here and to speak because you are the heroes, thank you."

End transcript

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Comments (14 of 14)

Thanks for posting this deeply moving transcript

by Dr. Coilín Oscar ÓhAiseadha

Tue Dec 06, 2005 23:45

I was at that meeting, and I was so sorry that I hadn't taken any notes of what Jimmy said. So now I'm very happy to see this faithful transcript, complete with ums and ahs.

I'm having difficulty expressing why I think it is so important and valuable to have recorded and published this speech. It captures profound thoughts in simple language.

What Jimmy stands for is such a precious idea: that we can recognise that we have done something gravely wrong, committed a profound offence against humanity and against ourselves, and from that insight work committedly to overturn and abolish that wrong for future generations.

Would that our political leaders could have the same courage to acknowledge that they have done wrong, and the strength to work courageously, defiantly, to create a world where this cannot happen again.

Jimmy: wishing you every success.

Coilín.

good work

by observer2

Wed Dec 07, 2005 19:50

Good work at taking the time to transcribe Masseys talk.

What about duty to your country?

by Shannon

Thu Dec 08, 2005 13:57

You've a very moving, and inspiring testament to what is going on in Iraq. It goes a long way in illustrating the fact that this is a war that we should not be fighting.

There are too many fractions of people in that country that do not get along, and having our forces there is doing nothing to solve the problem. We are only adding to it.

As much as I detest this war and feel for everyone killed/murdered there, I cannot agree with condeming you as a war crimminal. YOU are NOT one. Was it your decision to take our so called "war on terror" to Iraq? No. That decision rests with the idiot in the White House. You were, basically, following orders. To do otherwise would have landed you in trouble. Maybe you didn't see the war as wrong at first, but through your experiences, you can to see it as inhuman.

For me to label you a war criminal would be the same as labeling my father one. You see, he was drafted into Vietnam, another war that we never should have gotten involved in. Not that the politicians in charge ever had the guts to call it a war....no that was simply a police action. When my father's number came up, he went, despite the fact that he hated and disagreed with the war. While there, he killed many, and watched many of our own be killed. Did he have a choice? No.

The true war crimminal is not the men and women being sent to fight. They are doing their duty for their country (which is why many signed up in the first place). There is nothing crimminal in that. You should be proud to have had the strengh and willingness to serve your country. The crime is found in sending our armed forces into countries to fight where we have no business being. Wars are started by polititions who have the power to send men and women like yourself to fight, sometimes for something that is right (getting rid of Hitler, and revenge for September 11 in Afganastan), sometimes wrong (Korea, Veitnam, Iraq). Unless you talked the politicians into making that decision first hand, I cannot consider you a criminal any more than my father.

Dear Shannon,

Sat Dec 10, 2005 23:48

1. Please do not patronise and degrade Mr. Massey's very honest and completely accurate re-appraisal of himself as a war criminal.

2. Your inability to deal with the war crimes you say your father and his ilk committed in Vietnam etc. is not a badge of honour to wear, but a beacon to your childishness.

3. Take a leaf out of Mr. Massey's book and begin to open your eyes and grow up.

4. Did your father have a choice? Yes, several - A) passive 'concientious objection' B) active, military or political resistance/agitation C) Canada D) Being a well-oiled cog in the criminal warmachine.

5. As you well know, your old man chose D, the path of least resistance, paved with moral cowardice and the charred bodies of the millions slaughtered.

6. You say he or anyone should be 'proud' of that? I strongly disagree - such people richly deserve all the punishment their guilt brings - it's called natural justice.

7. Why-oh-why, I hear you ask, couldn't the Vietnamese just "get along" with the B52 pilots frying their children? Jeez, I dunno Dummy, maybe its because they're like duh HUMANS.

8. That means the GOOKS your racist old man told you all about.

9. Your words stink of self-righteous ignorance.

Keep shining Daddy's medals, and may Gawd continue to bless ... agh, fuck it!

Dear BP

Mon Dec 12, 2005 17:35

It is very rare for me to be so angered and insulted by one I've never met, but....There you go. Let me introduce you to reality.

1. Please do not patronise and degrade Mr. Massey's very honest and completely accurate re-appraisal of himself as a war criminal.
I am not patronising him. I simply understand the consequences of refusing to do ones duty once one has joined the military far better than you.

2. Your inability to deal with the war crimes you say your father and his ilk committed in Vietnam etc. is not a badge of honour to wear, but a beacon to your childishness.
My ability to deal with what my father suffered through is a testement to my ability to act like an adult and my understanding of the difficult possiton that the government put him and thousands like him in.

3. Take a leaf out of Mr. Massey's book and begin to open your eyes and grow up.
Hopefully, your eyes will be opened after reading my comment to your next piece of shite. You are blinded by your detestation of anyone who has fought for the USA, regardless of their reasons for doing so.

4. Did your father have a choice? Yes, several - A) passive 'concientious objection' B) active, military or political resistance/agitation C) Canada D) Being a well-oiled cog in the criminal warmachine.
In considering your first choice, let me enform you that this is only an option for people, such as the amish who's religious backround prohibits them from fighting. My father couldn't use this option.
Choice B would have landed my father in major trouble had he had the money to take it, which he would not have. To ignore the draft would also have sentenced some other young man to fight and possibly die in Viatnam. My father could not, in good concience, condem another to this fate.

5. As you well know, your old man chose D, the path of least resistance, paved with moral cowardice and the charred bodies of the millions slaughtered.
I suppose your correct. He risked his live many times over in a war that he did not agree with in order to preven some other young man from going in his place. My "old man" spend a year and a half walking through jungles, fighting an enemy so well hidden that you could walk past them without knowing it, going on night time reconosance missions, and saving the lives of several men in a shot down helocopter, and earned him a purple hart as well as a bronze star for bravery. He did all this only to come home, have his bags and metals dumpted all over the floor every time he went through a security check point, then to be spit on and ridiculed by his fellow countrymen...all because he refused to take the cowards way out of the draft. DRAFT, mind you which means the GOVERNMENT gives you the choice of running coward and causing some other poor soul to go in your place, your of you going yourself.
Yes, my father did chose the path of least resistance as to do otherwise would have condemend another to death. Aparently you could live with that, but my father could not.

6. You say he or anyone should be 'proud' of that? I strongly disagree - such people richly deserve all the punishment their guilt brings - it's called natural justice.
Hasn't my father and others like him already been punished enough by risking his life day after day for a year an a half only to return to his country, the one which sent him over there in the first place, to be ridiculed, spit appon, and mistreated?

7. Why-oh-why, I hear you ask, couldn't the Vietnamese just "get along" with the B52 pilots frying their children? Jeez, I dunno Dummy, maybe its because they're like duh HUMANS.
Not sure where this came from. I've siblings of my own, and know perfectly well that it's part of human nature to fight. My only problem with the Viatnam War is that the USA had no business being involved in it.

8. That means the GOOKS your racist old man told you all about.
No idea where this one came from either. My father is the farthest thing from a racist, and I deaply resent this implication. You've no idea what it was like there, to kill or be killed. There is little choice in the matter when you are standing face to face with someone that the government has decided to mark as an enemy, guns aimed at one another.

9. Your words stink of self-righteous ignorance.
Let me ask you, you self-rightous, ignorant, cowardly fool, had you, by the grace of God, found the courage to go when your number was called up in the draft, would you simply stand and do nothing as an "enemy soldier" pointed a gun at you and your fellow comrads? Would you do nothing still as they threw grenades into you bunkers? Would you do nothing as you watched the men surrounding you fall dead from "enemy" fire do nothing, or would you stand up and fight? My Father did not pick his enemy. The governemt, in its infanite stupidity, did. He simply chose to live.

Keep shining Daddy's medals, and may Gawd continue to bless ... agh, fuck it!
My father's medal's are stored in an old razor box, hidden away in piles of old college papers and books deep in the back of our basement. He never agreed with the war, still doesn't believe we should have gone. Nor does he believe we should be in Iraq. He has seen things there that would make your skin craw and wonder how on earth humans can do such things to each other. He rarely talks of it.
I know that telling you all of this will make no difference in your oppinion. You seem to be a person who sees in black and white. In my world, there are huge areas of gray. Should my father have fought in Nam? No. Should he have stayed so someone was sent to risk their lives in his place? No...gray area. Should he have killed men with guns aimed at him? Maybe not. Should those guns be aimed and shooting at my father? Maybe not. more gray area.

You can keep your self righteous black and white world with a clear line between good and evil. I'll stick with reality. Arse.

Shannon and BP

by Siabon

Fri Dec 16, 2005 04:36

Shannon
You've an interesting viewpoint on the men and women fighting. As apposed to the war and the murdering taking place in Iraq as I am, I see your point. Tisn't the men and women doing the fighting that we should be so bitterly angry. I've a few relatives in the military. They joined shortly after 9-11. I don't believe for one minute that they would have joined had they known they'd be sent to Iraq to fight in a war that USA has no business getting involved in. They joined for a chance to help defend our country after our citizens were so viciously attacked. No one in my family agrees with this war. We still support my family, and pray daily for their safe return.

BP
You've submitted a rather agressive reply to Shannon's post. I find it very telling that you've not found the balls to reply back. Must be that your the type to hit from behind and then turn tail and run. Guess it's probably a very good thing you consider the members of the military a "well-oiled cog in the criminal warmachine." You'd be killed before you found the guts to stand up for yourself.

Siabon and BP

Fri Dec 16, 2005 21:48

Siabon, I appriciate your input. Your quite right about how many joined after 9-11. It was a huge tragedy, one which much of America demanded vengence for. I never immagined that it would lead to government policy that would make it easier for Bush to send people to Iraq, but that is exactly what happened.

BP.....are you even still around, or are you one to comment, criticize, and turn tail and run for cover? Afraid of my comments or the possibility that I could be correct? Anything? You know, it's really annoying to have someone make comments in responce to something I've written that has no basis in fact, and then not have the guts to respond to my further explanations. Coward.

Jimmy Massey???

by Mojotrain

Wed Dec 21, 2005 14:49

Switzerland

Surely all of you must know that Jimmy Massey is a proven liar. I'm sorry that his experiences have caused him emotional instability but he's a liar.

Why is Ron Harris 'SwiftBoating' Jimmy Massey?

by redjade

Wed Dec 21, 2005 15:39

info: Ron Harris is the reporter that is smearing Jimmy Massey

» Interesting....
Ron Harris was reprimanded by both Vanity Fair and USA Today for shoddy jounalism
http://gnn.tv/headlines/5976/Jimmy_Massey_Ron_Harris_and_Ambush_Journalism

• Is Ron Harris telling the truth?
By Jimmy Massey
http://www.ivaw.net/index.php?id=%20201

—————
» Best article fact-checking Ron Harris...
• Jimmy Massey, Ron Harris and Ambush Journalism
By Stan Goff
http://gnn.tv/headlines/5976/Jimmy_Massey_Ron_Harris_and_Ambush_Journalism
-- Why is Ron Harris avoiding MSM appearances with Jimmy?
'CNN, by the way, had Jimmy in an Asheville studio yesterday waiting for his opportunity to answer Harris. But, alas, Harris had his day and Jimmy was sent home without so much as ten seconds of airtime to respond to Harris’ accusations.'
—————

• Amy Goodman: Debate between Ron Harris and Jimmy Massey
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/14/1447248

• Why Is Jimmy Massey, an Antiwar Marine, Under Attack?
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/massey_comment_121305.htm

• Jimmy Massey Website
http://www.jimmymassey.com/

Massey claims what?

by John Basilone - IVAW-NYC

Wed Jul 19, 2006 04:21

In the debate between Mr. Massey & Mr. Harris that RedJade provides a link to, there was an interesting "Nugget."

Mr. Massey claims that the Marines were using "Armour Piercing Depleted Uranium "Bullets for the "Fifty "Caliber Machineguns they had.

Mr. Massey makes the point why didnt Mr. Harris report this to the Public as it was a form of WMD, Mr. Harris seemed not to understand.

Whats interesting is Mr. Massey is completely wrong, there has NEVER been, nor ever manufactured "Depleted Uranium" 12.7mm Bullets for the Browning M2HB Gun.

AP, API, API-T all have a Hardened Steel core penetrator, SLAP have a Tungsten core sabot- "Depleted Uranium" munitions are not used below Infantry Fighting Vehicle level (ex;USA "Bradley's 25mm, UK "Warrior" 30mm, type vehicles)

As a experienced NCO he should have known that, nitpicking I know, but any Marine , Soldier who handles weapons WOULD know if they had that Type of Ammunition.

If Mr.massey was wrong about that (I wont say he's lying without further proof) what else might he be wrong about his Claims?

Please clarify

by R. Isible

Wed Jul 19, 2006 04:47

Whats interesting is Mr. Massey is completely wrong, there has NEVER been, nor ever manufactured "Depleted Uranium" 12.7mm Bullets for the Browning M2HB Gun

Are you saying that there is only one specific type of .50 caliber ammunition that will work in a Browning M2HB gun? Also does Massey specifically claim that the weapons he's referring to are M2HBs?

The website in the link below states:
The Pentagon has been selling excess and obsolete stocks of brass covered shells that include 50-caliber armor-piercing rounds for $1 a ton to Talon Manufacturing Company. Last year Talon sold more that 100,000 armor-piercing 50 caliber rounds on the civilian market. The buyers ranged from the militaries of Brazil and Colombia to civilian weapons dealers in the U.S. Gun dealers boast that the projectile will go through six inches of steel up to a 45-degree angle at 1,000 yards. The 50-caliber guns are considered accurate at 2,000 yards and can hit targets 4 miles away with some effectiveness. Talon even sold 35,000 rounds of the refurbished 50-caliber armor-piercing projectiles back to the U.S. military. The U.S. military arsenal includes a 50-caliber DU armor-piercing projectile. IDUST is investigating this report to find out if these armor-piercing rounds contain DU.

So, that remains to be proven. But the US Department of Defense has stated clearly in public briefings that they prefer to use DU instead of Tungsten because it does the job better. I don't see why they'd confine themselves to just using it on heavy-bore tank guns:
This is why the U.S. Army prefers to use depleted uranium over tungsten ammunition. If you look on the chart you can see that the depleted uranium is a material that has a characteristic that allows it to sharpen itself as it penetrates the target. -- http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/t03142003_t314d....html

Don't forget that medical studies conducted by the DoD show that there's absolutely no risk (honest!) to veterans and in fact it can be good for you if taken in moderation (manufacturers disclaimers and waivers apply).

R. Isible

Wed Jul 19, 2006 06:11

Try as I Might, I havent found any reputable references to 12.7 X99mm Browning Ammo with DU.

There have been references in some online Gaming sites, which I think are bizarre in the least (Glorifying killing ).

With 27 years as an Infantryman ,mostly in Mechanized & Armoured units I have used this weapon on numerous occasions.

None of my FM's, TM's & ammo handbooks makes mention of such rounds, internet search has proven fruitless in providing the type classification( ie; M856 , M193, etc) of such a round as well. If such a round was in the "Inventory" it would have to be type classified & given an NSN(stockage # for supply)

None of the other veterans I've conferred with have ever heard of this ammo either , Between the 5 of us we have over 158 years in the military .

I would be very interested if such a round was in usage, as that would be a definate change in doctrinal usage.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 06:13

Additionally, I found this link on types of 12.7 ammo in usage

Post Script

Wed Jul 19, 2006 06:28

Sorry, just saw the posting referencing type of M.G. Yes, only the Browning series M2HB is used on US ground vehicles currently.

In the first persian gulf war there was the M85 gun( used on the M60A3 tank, & LVTP-7"Amtrack" ) which used the same caliber(12.7 X99mm) cartridges- but the disintigrating link belt was a "Push -thru" type as opposed to the M2's "Pull Thru" links.

A modernized aircraft browning (similar to the M3 version) made by FN of belgium has been tested in the US for adoption by USMC ground units, but is not in combat service with said units as of dec. 2005.

Again, Marines are typically well-versed in such weapons, so Mr. Massey is probably mistaken in his assertion.

I do hope this clarified any concern you've had.

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A Public Talk Given At Trinity College By Jimmy Massey, 2nd October 2005

Comments (14 of 14)