Shannon Peace Camp 3rd Anniversary.

by A10 Wed Jan 18, 2006 19:38

The UN paid for it's overbearing arrogance by having it's Hq and it's over paid personel blown to smithereens .Despite being warned of the potential dangers of not adhering to security procedures as suggested by the US forces.If the Un was so willing to serve the Irquai people maybe they should get of their burrocratic asses andget down to Bagdad again?but maybe that wouldnt do,as there is a chance of being kidnapped or shot in this oppressed place.

by Seán Ryan Wed Jan 18, 2006 15:15

Another possibility might have been that the UN having established a foothold might have sponsored the most democratic looking of potential successors, and backed him.

Democracy established. Not as much barbarity needed either.

I'm very worried about this idea of forcing peoples to accept and practice a political or a religious ideology. Methinks it is the ingredient, for most of what we suffer today.

Sláinte
Seán

by Shane Quinlan Wed Jan 18, 2006 14:25

It is difficult to know what would happen in the power vacuum that would occur when Sadam Hussein died. However, I personally believe that the army and republican guard rank and file would have mutinied and sided themselves with the democracy camp in Iraq.
Lets face it America are only in it for the oil. I am sick and tired of people peddling neoconservative propoganda about America coming to Iraq to establish democracy there.

by Seán Ryan Tue Jan 17, 2006 18:17

And I'd like to further add, that it is my government, siding in this matter, ie. with the USA that I focus on, and naturally this leads to descriptions of crimes against humanity, that are commited in my name, and naturally this allows you to suggest my argument is one sided. This is simply because you look at it in a way that facilitates you using what is said as propaganda.

I suggest you take up some study on the topics you speak of.

And what these pilots you have spoken to have expressed as regards to the anti-war peoples, well thats as irrelevent as the rest of what you have to say.

Sláinte
Seán Ryan

by mr jinks Tue Jan 17, 2006 09:15

there is no point arguing with most off the anti war guys here.. your point of view is either lifted off the site straight away or just replied to with the same old drivel they spout..

i have seen the video's of the terrorists beheading innocent people and it is horrific, they have no compassion whatso ever ..

anti war goons dont reply saying that the americans are doing the same thing cos they are not!! no where near it!! so go get a life and try do somethig constructive with yer lives.. Us planes will come and go in and out of here regardless of the pathetic little anti war movement..
having spoken to a few of the pilots on some of the military just to let ye know,, ye are a joke to them.. a couple of no bodies stiiring a little controversy around here.. over in the states its basically a laugh..
if the y leave here they will refuel in ramstein or prestwick.. no sweat off their noses..
will ye all run off to germany and scotland then to continue the campaign?? i think not!!!

by righteous Pragmatist Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:43

Sean Ryan says:
"I' ll leave you to your delusions and suggest to you that democracy is a thing of evolution and thinking, and that parrots like yourself, invalidate democracy, rather than uphold or for that matter enforce the concept, and that you prevent it from growing and developing."

If Saddam had not been removed from power there would have been a snowball's chance in hell of the Iraqi people democracy on their own. That's a simple fact!

America made the mistake of supporting Saddam in order to stop the Iranians during the 1980's rather than do the job themselves with their own troops - a spineless decision based on the American public pathological obsession with their casualties in Vietnam, are war that they had won militarily only to allow psychological defeat and literally hand victory to the Communist enemy.
Saddam was a thug and America knew it but was not prepared to do the dirty job of stopping the Ayatollahs them so they got saddam to do it for them.
They paid the price - It took 9/11 to make the American people understand that they could not remain an isolationist state - they would have to take their own security into their hands, not depend on the UN's holy writ, and destroy their enemies. Saddam is gone and the Ayatollahs were soon follow unless they give up their nuclear programs.

It is the anti-war left which is trying to undermine at every turn the democratization of the middle east fueled by their irrational hatred of the United States. The US brought their beloved Soviet concentration camp system crashing down. Stupidity has consequences and those consequences will be paid by the anti-war left who seem there is no irony in now siding with backward bronze age cultists who want to return the world to the the dark ages.
Why is it that you cheer on terrorists who behead women for wearing make up or not covering themselves from head to toe in burkas, murder homosexuals, blow up night clubs because dancing music and alcohol are supposed sinful believe that an imaginary entity called "Allah" willed it when he spoke to some ignorant camel shagger called Mohammed long ago in a desert cave?
The middle east is a backward volitile region full to the brim with religion crackpots.
It is up to technologically superior modern enlightened democractic nations to drag them out of the cesspit.
The US is the only country in the world that is prepared to roll up its sleeves and do what needs to be done. Barmy Christian beliefs may be strong in America but most Americans I know and the country that I am familiar with is ultimately guided by reason, scientific progress and that the desire for people through out the world to have the same quality of life as they enjoy.
This is the nation that invaded and saved Europe in 1945 and then gave it back it is people. Today they are doing precisely the same in 21st century Iraq.

by shannon Sun Jan 15, 2006 13:30

The United States??? most senior general and President George Bush???s principal military advisor on matters in Iraq stopped over in Shannon Airport at the end of last year.

see Daily Ireland article

General Pace made a week-long "morale-boosting" journey to Iraq at the end of last year in late December and he landed in Shannon Airport on his way to the occupied country.
General Peter Pace was sworn in as sixteenth chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in September last year. In this capacity, he serves as the principal military adviser to the president, the Secretary of Defence, and the National Security Council.
Last year, he openly defended the use of weapons containing white phosphorus in Iraq.
"White phosphorus is a legitimate tool of the military.
It is not a chemical weapon. It is an incendiary. And it is well within the law of war to use those weapons as they're being used, for marking and for screening," he was reported as saying at the time.

by jolly elf Sat Jan 14, 2006 02:18

So the capitalists are at war with the Islamic world. It should be seen as an opportunity to attack, under any guise.

The tetra headed animal eats itself.............

by Bertie Lover Fri Jan 13, 2006 23:05

I have to agree with Righteous Pragmatist in what he is saying,these extreamists out there don't care who they kill or what country they target.I think anyone is fair game to them.Ye do bury ye're heads in the sand,if I'm honest I'm more afraid if what ye stand for than any terrorist out there.As a group you seem intent on destroying the grovernment of this country, can you answer me why and how is this helping any of the torture victims or any of the innocent civillians that are being killed.All you seem to be doing is tying the courts up,how is this helping anybody?Costing the taxpayer millions in court costs is not helping the torture victims or the innocent children is it?I wish war wasn't an option but in the world we live in sadly it is.One last point before I go,if a country declared war on Ireland tomorrow who would like fighting our corner for us,with an army of their size and power I would like America fighting on my side would'nt you.

by Dr. Coilín Oscar ÓhAiseadha Fri Jan 13, 2006 20:38

Thanks for your comments, Righteous Pragmatist. It's very valuable to have your critical thoughts thrown into the discussion, otherwise things might get very boring around here.

Since you are obviously knowledgeable and keenly interested in Iraq, I'd like to know what you think about a few things:

Would you agree with me that Saddam and co. abused human rights when they ordered the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Kurds from their homes during the Anfal campaign in the 1980s?

And would you agree that Bush and co. similarly abused human rights when they ordered the Air Force and Marines to expel hundreds of thousands of people from their homes in Fallujah in October/November 2004?

36,000 homes were destroyed at the time, and 150,000 people from Fallujah are still homeless:
http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=8147

Pragmatically speaking, which would you rather have: a home and no vote, or a vote and no home?


Also, how do you feel, or what do you think, about the thousands of people who were killed by bombs during the "Shock and Awe" campaign and who will never get the chance to vote, because they are dead?


Best regards,
Coilín.

by Seán Ryan Fri Jan 13, 2006 14:55

Dear Righteous Pragmatist,

I'd defeat each and every supposed argument you make, if I hadn't done so already and eleswhere on Indy, I'd add that many others have done the same. And yet you come back, with the same old drivel again and again.

Does your practice of democracy, include an ideological stance on dictatorship?

Does your understanding of democracy reduce to you abdicating your right to think, and humbly offering this right to your American betters?

In fact the only thing you state that I don't take issue with is, that you use the term "spread of democracy," like it is an infectious disease.

I understand that this was not your intention, but I agree with you nonetheless.

I' ll leave you to your delusions and suggest to you that democracy is a thing of evolution and thinking, and that parrots like yourself, invalidate democracy, rather than uphold or for that matter enforce the concept, and that you prevent it from growing and developing.

I wish you well, and I hope some day that you choose to examine your own words rather than just tossing them out without understanding. At least I hope your eventual excuse is that you do not understand.

Sláinte
Seán

by Jolly elf Fri Jan 13, 2006 14:48

Any action against capital and it's endless oppressive wars should be welcomed.

by righteous pragmatist Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:30

On 9/11 America was attacked by Al-Qaida killing 3,000 innocent people.

Ossam Bin Laden and his Al-Qaida organisation were based and training in Afghanistan with the co-operation of the Taliban government which tyrannised its people.

America destroyed Al-Qaida's training camps killing thousands of terrorists and scattered Al-Qaida. The Taliban were overthrown and now Afghanistan has a constitutional multiparty democratic system and human rights for its people.

Saddam Hussein meanwhile was the only world leader to praise the 9/11 attacks apart from Mullah Omar, the leader of the Taliban.
He defied the will of the UN for years ignoring more than a dozen resolutions authorising inspections of his WMD programs.
For years he had given financial support Palestinian terrorists.
For years terrorist training camps operated by Ansar-Al-Islam north of Baghdad and attacks were launched against the Kurds.
Saddam had enormous mineral wealth in Iraq. with which he could eventually rebuild his army, weapons programs and fund terrorists in the future if UN sanctions were lifted.

Saddam was overthrown and Iraq is now a consitutional multiparty democracy and its people have human rights.

Terrorists have concentrated in Iraq because the survival of democracy In Iraq will cause democracy to spread to the rest of the Middle East. The focus of the terrorists attacks are the Iraqi people themselves who have died in their thousands in suicide bomb atrocities.
America maintains its forces because there can be no other strategy but to continue the war against these fanatics as the Iraqi government establishes itself and Iraqi police and army gradually take control.

Terrorists are continuing their attacks against various targets countries - Israel, Spain, Britain, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, India, Pakistan, Chechnya, Ingusetia, Russian, Greece and while scores of 9/11 style attacks have been foiled on American soil by the security measures introduced under the Patriot Act. Recently terrorists attempted to destroy nuclear reactor in Sydney.
America and Western security agencies are fighting day and night to defeat the threat of Islamic fundementalist terrorism which threatens the peace of the entire world.

Iran, a country ruled by an Islamic fundementalist government, is presently defying the UN as its seeks to arm itself with nuclear weapons with which its hopes to wipe Israel off the map and attack the West.

Recently Al Choudary, an Islamic fundementalist, speaking in Dublin justified plans of terrorists to commit atrocities in Ireland against innocent Irish people.

The Anti-War movement has put its head in the sand, denying the threat to the world from militant Islam, instead it indulges in paranoia about American imperialism and declares the wars to overthrow dictatorships and kill terrorists and fanatical killers to be war crimes.

by Conor Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:52

Your are right about the C40 anyway fred!

by Joe Sheehan Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:37

Fred,

You should pay attention yourself, when Ed, Tim or any others see a plane the first thing done is to get its reg, which is checked. That is how the CIA planes were first spotted at Shannon

by Fred O'Connor Thu Jan 12, 2006 00:39

Mary Kelly did not damage a C-130. It was a Boeing 737 (also known as C-40). If you have flown Ryanair in the last 10 years you have flown on a 737.

Eoin Dubsky defaced a C-130 dedicated to Search and Rescue..

Ed Horgan saw a Gulfstream landing once so he assumed it was a US Military flight and he thinks it might have been whisked into a hangar for some sinister purpose because he couldn't see it from the spectators' area, which looks over half the airport. Possibly it was one of the 1,000 business jet movements Shannon has each year that are refuelled in the area next to the Ryanair stands (which is not visible from the spectators' area). That would be fairly boring though, so let's let Ed pretend it was up to no good, whatever it was.

Sometimes I think you'd all be better off doing something more useful for a change.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Thu Jan 12, 2006 00:22

Beautiful tent. Warm fire. Lovely food, music, chat and films. A pity this Peace Camp had to die so soon. Even in its short life, it gave strong and brilliant witness to peace.

Like Emma.

A beautiful remembrance of her too short life's work.
May her cherry tree always blossom

by Elisa O'Donovan Wed Jan 11, 2006 22:41

This is really heartwarming stuff reading this-fair play to ya's. On the saturday night, my parents were entertaining mr col m whiley,local ff counciller up there in clare.He's a sound bloke and does a good job.I asked him did he know there was a three year anniversary peace camp going on up in shannon that evening he said he did.In the same breath he said how sad it was seeing all those young soldiers going off maybe to their death and how good it was that shannon airport was making millions out of the us stopover.I suppose that shows how much respect our goverment has for the value of human life.....

by Seán Ryan Wed Jan 11, 2006 21:16

And the ability to make it happen and keep happening.

Sovereignty.

Solidarity and respects Conor

Seán

by Conor Wed Jan 11, 2006 20:42

A10,Firstly, I am not inviting a debate with you as you really bore me but I do want to point someting out to you.
Forcing down the US Air Force out of our air space is an idiotic notion. We would expect the US to respect the sovereignty of the nation of Ireland. A concept obviously lost on you and perhaps the US too.

And on the Maths. oh my dear man!

by Phuq Hedd Wed Jan 11, 2006 20:35

QUOTE: "A hundred and fifty people came.And there was 150,000 on the streets of Dublin three years ago???????
so by my maths ,the intrest in the anti war movement is now to one tenth of what it once was three years ago????"

RESPONSE: Brilliant. Puts everything you say into context. Nice to see you living up to your usual accuracy. 150,000/150 = 1000.

by A10 Wed Jan 11, 2006 20:13

A hundred and fifty people came.And there was 150,000 on the streets of Dublin three years ago???????
so by my maths ,the intrest in the anti war movement is now to one tenth of what it once was three years ago????
Shouldnt this be the other way around??But I think we do belive in doing everything bass ackwardsin Ireland.

Also on one crazy demand.HOW WILL the Irish govt prevent US aircraft crossing Irish "airspace" Which BTW over a certain height becomes international airspace?????Force down US combat aircraft with our bunch of new propellor driven fighters.Once we figure how to get the machine guns mounted on them.Or will we threaten them with a battery of high reaching SAM missiles along the
West coast.???
A reality check helps once in awhile.

by Des Wed Jan 11, 2006 18:35

It fills me with great hope that our gallant police force are making sure that nothing will happen to the participants at the peace camp. Look on the bright side, nothing has ever happened to the American tourists who were just passing through. At least not in dear old Ireland.