Property

international | anti-capitalism | opinion/analysis

Thursday March 30, 2006 18:38

by Arnold

Who is entitled?

What is the justification for private property?
What is the justification for collective property?

I believe that the answer to two both questions is the same: There is none.

We can only speculate on the origin of property and what is the natural state of man.
1. Were humans originally isolated individuals who lived in tranquility with nature providing all their needs and our jealous hording of the fruits of nature combined with our encounters with other humans led to wars which eventually led to negotiations about the the formation of governments to decide what was public property e.g. tax, public streets, roads, town parks etc. and what was private e.g. our houses, land, cars etc?
2. Were we always herd animals but constantly quarreling and jockeying for power which led to negotiations and the delineation of public and private property?
3. Man was originally in perfect tranquilty and shared everything equally until some of humanity decided to dominate and exploit others and created property rights to protect their own power and the history of humanity has been merely the power struggles of elites using the common people as their foot soldiers?

There are surely other theories but I believe these are the main ones that crop up again and again among religious, philosophers and scientists.
By like all theories they are pure speculation and especially when it comes to the misty reaches of the past.

So what am I driving at?

I believe that if we cannot determine how history unfolded and we cannot even agree among ourselves what is the true nature of our present society then how can we possibly predict the future direction of humanity with any degree of accuracy or general prediction beyond pure speculation.
Epistemologists have been stumped since Decartes declared Cogito Ergo Sum - I think therefore I am - but he could not justify any scientific interpretation of the external world because he simply did not have access to it because his senses we suspect - every theory is pure speculation.
Since then some epistemologists have give up trying to justify knowledge and simply follow the theory that seems most useful to them to explain the world - but of course they all contradict eachother because what they believe different theories are the most useful.

Marxists and anarchists and other radicals of every stripe believe that Marx a modern prophet - the abolition of private property leads toward an inevitable communist society by either an organised or a spontaneous revolution and anyone who tries to keep their private property is a class enemy to be irradicated.

Capitalists believe that man usually acts according to self-interest - limit the power of government or even abolish it completely and the market will provide for the majority and it the system cant provide for you tough.

Its quite clear that Capitalism has won out - it is clearly the most stable system for the majority -so far in the Western world - while countries which hold onto autocratic rule, theocracy, welfare state, communist dictatorship or corruptocracy systems remain poor and starving.
Capitalism may or not be spreading but where it has been adopt for e.g. Japan it has led to incredible prosperity but the society remains geared toward the particular culture of the Japanese.

But is the capitalist system just?

Of course not

Would overthrowing it be just?

Of course not

Can we do anything about it?

Of course not

Do most people in the West really want to?

Of course not

Which leaves us with Islamic society the largest growing cultural way of life on earth.
Is it a threat to capitalism?
al-Qaida bombs and kills lots of people and it might well rule Saudi Arabia one day soon.
But would it bring down capitalism or would capitalist countries make a deal - we will buy you out or we can nuke you - which deal will Ossama eventually make?
But what about the Islamic society that is mainstream at the moment?
I am convinced with a bit of prosperity a bit of the free market and you will hear no more about Israel
Will that be just for the Palestinians?
Of course not.

but will most of the world go along with it.

You bet.

I therefore cannot see Marxism ever catching on worldwide - maybe in some backwater hellhole - but not in the US or EU or India while China peels of the debris from 57 years of insanity.

save preference

Comments (3 of 3)

eoin consider

by i wipe my ass with the sunday indo yes

Mon Apr 03, 2006 17:22

the north is propped up by massive financial disbursements from the british governments ( do you dispute this ? )

Who and how will the north replace this unsustainable employment.

If ireland takes over the north anytime soon it faces a crippling bill of 10 billion a year (do you dispute this ? )

the reason the north has neglible/no private enterprise are the troubles ( do you dispute this ? )

flippant remarks are the easiest to make, but say little and never win the argument (do you dispute this ?)

Likewise simple reasoning is the easiest to get support for. (but because the world is complex and nuanced , such simple policies never work )

consider bushe's lets stay and occupy iraq to turn it into a democracy.

What the fuck do you read ?

Misuse of power you say?

by thank eoin

Sun Apr 02, 2006 23:54

somebodies being reading the Sunday Indo

so how do we stop sinn fein ruining us ?

by thank god

Sun Apr 02, 2006 22:43

winston churchill said democracy was the least bad for of government and you rightly point to capitalism as the least bad method of spreading wealth.

What do we do then, when sinn fein uses nationalism to further their economic vision of ireland.I wouldn't be against a united ireland , but why should i pay for the north ? it has pretty much nothing. Half the people are payed for by the state.

It has repeatedly happened throughout history where politicians rouse the poeple through love for their country only to use the power to do terrible damage!

A few examples: the reunification of germany, where one eastern mark was valued at one western mark ---> ten year recession.

911, terrorist updated and upgraded the suicide bomber technique. The terrorists were a very small and focussed group with a long history with america. George goes into iraq -----> alqueada will be the greatest threat to all our souls going forward , sure they are just queuing up to join !

President Chirac runs around doing his nut telling france that they have it right and that everyone else has to change for ten years. He also blames everything difficult on europe ------> riots riots riots the french are so pissed off that now a new job contract comes out that might improve things they say non!

the most notorious ( and frighteningly close to gerry adams ) hitler tell germans that he can make germany last a thousand years ----> they invade a little bit all over.

I don't share gerry's vision. why should he get to massively tax the south to pay for the north, and the aftermath of his war? Because don't think gerry wouldn't go nuts with the public purse in a minute!!!!

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Comments (3 of 3)