A Call to Israel

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Tue May 02, 2006 10:53

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75655

by Simon Tue May 02, 2006 22:43

How about calling on Hamas to recognise the state of Israel.

Or ask palestines to stop supporting suicide bombers.

by How about ye? Tue May 02, 2006 23:27

As long as you promise to ask Isrealis to get the fuck off Palestinian land, to stop shooting unarmed 13 yr old girls in the head, to stop shooting soccer playing 10 yr old boys, to stop bulldozing peoples houses, to stop stealing all the water in the west bank, to stop firing explozive rockets from US made Apache Gunships. OK? Have we got a deal?

by Simon Wed May 03, 2006 00:04

Did I say that I disagreed with what was said? No.

All I said was that somethings were left off the list.
You can't be one sided on conflict. You can't condemn Israel for lauching misiles into gaza and then condon suicide bombings of civilians.

You can't hold Israel up to one standard and Palestinans up to another.

by blaise Wed May 03, 2006 05:22

the guy just gave you 5 horrific reasons why Hamas doesn't recognize Israel (the recognition itself is quite harmless compared to Israel's thuggery and ghettoizing of the Palestians) and you retort with demand for even standards. What standards does Israel adhere to? None. They reject all advice except when the Americans tell them it's in their best interest (which means money) not to interject, like when they (the Americans) rained bomb after bomb on the Iraquis. It's quite possible that Hamas would recognize Israel when Israel conforms to international law, which it does not at this moment. Therefore its mere recognition of Israel is a minor point and not really that important. What is important is that Hamas is the democratically elected party in control of the Palestinians and should be treated with respect. They are the party who fed and schooled the poverty stricken homeland while Arafat and his boys siphoned off the donations for years.

by Ali H. Wed May 03, 2006 10:14

"You can't hold Israel up to one standard and Palestinans up to another"

This is what Israel does all of the time.

Israel portrays itself as a democracy and yet uses terrorism to "defend" itself, more often than not pro-actively, ie BEFORE any attack takes place, or is even thought about.

Israels behaviour is inconsistent with that of a democracy and good housekeeping begins at home not finger-pointing at the oppressed.

by Noel Wed May 03, 2006 14:17

It\\\'s quite possible that Hamas would recognize Israel when Israel conforms to international law, which it does not at this moment.

How far must one trek into the fever swamps of Judenhass to come to such a conclusion?
The whole of the civilised world recognises Israel.

As for the footie playing innocents - got a link?

by Simon Wed May 03, 2006 15:25

Israel portrays itself as a democracy and yet uses terrorism to "defend" itself, more often than not pro-actively, ie BEFORE any attack takes place, or is even thought about.

Could say the exact same thing for Hamas.

The Hamas charter says
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"Obliterate" not the kind of language you want a group to use which you want to negociate with them.

by Ross Wed May 03, 2006 16:58

The Israelis official policy toward the Palestinians is to defend themselves from attack.
Their intelligence services constantly monitor the Palestinians because the Palestinians are constantly building rockets in workshops in Gaza and the West Bank to fire at Israeli civilian areas, because they are training gunmen to infiltrate into Israeli civilian areas to commit massacres of innocent men women and children merely because they are Jews and not Muslims and because they established an production line of suicide bombers indoctrinated since early childhood to have a blind hatred of Jews and non Muslims in general.
To defend themselves the Israelis use military force to destroy these rocket workshops which are often deliberately hidden in Palestinian civilian areas, the assassinate terrorist leaders, the eliminate terrorist training camps and they arrest or if necessary shoot terrorist infiltrators and suicide bombers before they launch their murderous attacks.
Israelis go out of their way to avoid and limit Palestinian civilian deaths during their military operations but the priority is to protect innocent Israelis who will suffer from potential attacks unless the Israeli defence forces can stop them first.

Whether Israel had a right to exist to come into existence in 1948 is open to debate but the fact is that presently Israel still exists and more than six million Jews live within its borders and unless they protected themselves they would be wiped off the map by their more numerous Arab neighbours. The generations of Jews who have grown up in Israel since 1948 have the right to live there and the right to call themselves Israeli and have the right to defend themselves from their enemies.

The Palestinians have the right to their own state but that state encompases the West Bank and Gaza. They must respect Israeli sovereignty over its own territory.

But if the Palestinians seek to overthrow the state of Israel then the Israelis have the right to overthrow the Palestinian state and occupy the West Bank and Gaza until such time as the Muslims recognise the right of Israelis to exist in Israel.

The Palestinians cannot expect the Israelis to commit suicide.

You who support the Palestinian cause cannot seriously expect Israelis to respect the Palestinians as equals while they constantly conspire to overthrow our state and massacre our people?

Some of you percieve the British presence in Ireland as an occupation of your land and that the Protestants stole the land of Ulster from the Catholic Irish who were driven out?
Just as the Palestinians see us as foreign occupiers of Palestinian land which is now the State of Israel.

Nobody is seriously suggesting that the Unionist Protestants should be driven from Ulster by force?
But you think you can then seriously suggest that Palestinians have the right to drive Israelis who have live here for generations out of our homeland?

by Mr. T. Wed May 03, 2006 17:40

Nobody is seriously suggesting that the Unionist Protestants should be driven from Ulster by force?

You're not from around here are you?

by blaise Wed May 03, 2006 22:22

Ross, Israel's official policies have very little to do with reality. In fact there are a great many Israeli Jews who are also of this opinion. I have some Jewish friends who are themselves revulsed by the behaviour of the Israeli government toward Palestinians. If you were yourself subjected to the abuse the Palestinians have endured at the hands of the Israeli govenrment, having been demeaned and threated every bit as bad as the American black was treated before emancipation, you, too would probably wish to eradicate them. If you check your history books you will discover that although there has always been some animosity there, there was a time, as recent as 100 years ago when the two lived and worked together peacefully. The Israeli government is well positioned with its power to offer Olive branches yet I cannot remember such a gesture in recent history. Camp David was a joke, despite what the American government thought. No control of water, of air space, of travel, please, would you accept that deal? Curiously the two countries who do not really respect the United Nations are Israel and the United States, and the same two have no respect for international law, so basically it's up to them, or else face unending terror from the David of the Goliath. Terrorism is a horrible thing but to the terrorist who feels they have endured a lifetime of terror it may seem a just retribution. I feel all terrorism is horrible and horrific but I have never lived in such conditions.

by Mr. T. Thu May 04, 2006 00:56

Blaise: You said - "as recent as 100 years ago when the two lived and worked together peacefully"

100 years ago the region we refer to today as Israel and the Palestine were under absolute colonial rule of the British Empire. The reason that Israelis and Palestinians were not fighting each other back then was that they had a larger common oppressive enemy - Britain.

I certainly hope you're not suggesting that reestablishing British colonial rule would provide a solution to the present Palestinian problem.

By the way, enrolling in a history course or two might help you understand the historical background and political context for issues that shape world events. The Open University is a great place for beginners to get started without huge time or financial commitment.

by blaise Thu May 04, 2006 03:21

are you talking about the Balfour Agreement of 1917 when the British renaged on the promises to the Arabs and France - pretending to offer the Zionists a homeland, but secretly agreeing to give them a State? British history is filled with deceipt and lies - divide and conquer - and money - they got barrels of money out of that slipshod deal. All I was alluding to is the fact that Jews and Arabs did get along much better back then - despite their animosities. Your view of history of decidedly one-sided and narrow, whereas it would prove more fruitful to see good and bad on both sides. I certainly don't agree with terrorism but both sides are guilty of terrorism whether you like it or not. What you see is selective terrorism, blinkered terrorism, terrorism where it suits your slanted view of the middle east. It is exactly that kind of myopia which fuels the unending cycle of violence between these two tribes.

by Mr. T. Thu May 04, 2006 12:30

"Jews and Arabs did get along much better back then - despite their animosities."

They got along because both Jews and Palestinians were oppressed equally by the British. The addage: "My enemy's enemy is my friend" is indeed apt in this case. But let's not ignore that any terrorist uprisings or civil war would have been quashed ruthlessly by the British forces.

by blaise Thu May 04, 2006 22:20

Sorry I cannot recommend medical attention for your myopic vision of the middle east, Mr T, but at least we both agree that the British have been historically deceitful and ruthless - the same attributes which I could ascribe to the Israeli govenment at present. The British, to their credit, however, will listen to international law and the United Nations, which the Israeli govenement will not.

by Noel Thu May 04, 2006 22:36

will listen to international law and the United Nations, which the Israeli govenement will not.

International law?
I will call my lawyer.

Why should the Government of Israel give a fiddlers fuck for the United Nations?
Many of those United Nations are a disparate collection of dictatorships, theocracies, thug regimes and tyrants.
Libya and Sudan have both chaired the UN Human Rights Commission.
Darfur was deliberately not categorised as genocide.
Not forgetting the snouts in the trough of Oil for food scandals.

Israel should be applauded for its contempt for this vindictive, corrupt and thankfully now ignored talking shop.

by blaise Fri May 05, 2006 06:06

Mr Noel and Mr T - I've said all I have to say on the subject. You both see the Israeli government in some glowing light (blinding obviously) never practicing deceipt, thuggery, selfishness, robbery, land grabbing, ghetto building sycophant - when actively they are fully engaged in all the above, and that includes flaunting international law. Lawyers may legally protect you but not from the conscience of the rest of the world. The United States is highly guilty of the above, as well, in fact I am not sure which one is the student at that game. Both countries are guilty of extreme racism and are morally beyond reproach when they kill and maim people - so you have picked yourselves a couple of real winners there. These two countries preent the real threat to world peace and both go around annointing and sanctifying themselves as pillars of democracy, the new Messiahs. Pillars, my arse.