Dublin Bin Privatisation: Labour Party Privatisation Plan backed by Greens, SF, PDs, FF, & FG.

by radio Thu Oct 04, 2007 19:13

H'm..
Does this mean that the political parties are encouraging the brown envelope brigade.
Someone should really be looking into the 'Panda' books, they are profiteers and it does not
matter much to the politicians who can afford the waste charges. there seems to be some
problems with the waiver scheme which panda insist they 'offer, albeit in a very limited way'.
Waste is a huge financial draw for some people , check out the corporate shareholders
in "Panda', 'Greenstar' and other management companies. Our politicians seem to cloak
their entreprenurial heads in'social responsibility'.

by Paul Smyth Thu Oct 04, 2007 19:33

Why do the unions still fund and politically support the labour party?! They have just launched an attack on the pay and conditions of council workers, they support the race to the bottom and neo liberalism!

by Benny Fri Oct 05, 2007 09:45

Two things make former street radicals into conservatives, age and responsibility. Getting married and having to find money to support growing kids makes individuals feel that pure ideals don't put bread and jam on the table. Getting elected to public office makes individuals aware of the financial and administrative complexity of running society. That is what has happened to former militants of SFWP who went on regular street protests twenty, thirty or forty years ago. They shouted loudly on the streets and members of the local public rewarded them with votes.

It's not just a SFWP thing, it's life experience in general. In the case of subcontracting rubbish disposal services to private companies I'd say the attitude of former militant Byrne and his like is: bin there done that.

by Mags Fri Oct 05, 2007 13:00

My understanding of the issue is that currently we have a situation where private collectors 'cherry-pick' businesses - obviously those with higher waste loads which they can offer a discount on. The City Council - which is the adminstrative centre for all the authorities - can't compete with these operators because they have to run waste collection for all households and businesses. The situation is analagous to private electricity suppliers cherry-picking large industrial users, or potentially private bus operators only working 'profitable' routes - leaving the public sector to look after the rest.

The motion (which was actually a City Manager's proposal) attempts to bring order to this siutation and stop the 'cherry-picking'. The problem is that some of the Dublin authorities use private whereas others use public. Therefore, to make the whole thing coherent, the City Council will require that waste collectors - public or private - must bid on whole areas and not just take the profitable routes.

This motion will make privatisation more difficult not easier.

by double-speak Fri Oct 05, 2007 13:09

Do we still have a city manager then, whats his name?

John Fitzgerald emigrated to Limerick after bringing in, or ensuring that the estimates were
brought in, which led to the jailing of Joe Higgins. The estimates were the brainy bright idea
of central government in a cosmetic attempt to devolve more power to councils, in FF speak
this amounts to; 'make them a bureauracy and make 'em pay the minimum wage to public
servants'. but FF never allowed for directly elected mayors or real power to councils + put in a
city manager role to ensure the bureaucratic function was adhered to.

its skinflint shit politics pretending to be local politics.

by Jolly Red Giant - Socialist Party/CWI Fri Oct 05, 2007 13:10

Once the local council started to charge for bin collestion - 'cherry-picking' by private contractors was inevitable.

This is the process that has occurred all over the country
(1) Council charge for rubbish collection
(2) Contractors come in and under-cut the council
(3) Council loses customers
(4) Council withdraws from service
(5) Contractors put up prices.

The solution is not to contractor out the service - but to do away with the charge.

by Chris A.Bond - Labour Party/Unite Union (personal capacity) Fri Oct 05, 2007 14:53 chrbond at gmail dot com chrisabond.blogspot.com

Eric Byrne is one of the most principled public representatives in this country, this bile thrown at him by the extreme left is sickening. They like to put their own self serving spin on everything. They dont realise is that if 50 Mick Murphys were elected to Dublin city council it wouldn't make a difference, as it is a highly undemocratic setup.

Its time for a Greater Dublin authority with a directly elected mayor and an end to the system of County managers. Its also time to replace direct taxation in the form of service charges with a proper local government tax.

by Bemused - DCC Fri Oct 05, 2007 14:59

" John Fitzgerald emigrated to Limerick after bringing in, or ensuring that the estimates were brought in, which led to the jailing of Joe Higgins"

Joe Higgins went to jail for defying a High Court Order, nothing to do with Estimates.

(This is the same High Court that Joe was happy to resort to, to ensure Fingal Co Co kept collecting waste in their area. )

John Tierney by the way is City Manager.

by DM - Labour Party Fri Oct 05, 2007 17:06

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/1004/1191....html

Byrne said

And yes, the motion does mean that it is possible for Dublin to go private - but it also means that it is possible for the whole city to go public, and indeed the private operators have been lobbying against this proposal (which certain parties are conveniently ignoring). The city-wide solution makes sense and the next step is to ensure that the whole contract stays public, and failing that, that if the contract goes out, that it goes out on fair terms and conditions for workers, etc. The current mishmash helps no-one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it too much to ask for indymedia people to research their articles especially when attacking a hardworking Counciller?

by Lynx Minx Fri Oct 05, 2007 17:47

"Eric Byrne is one of the most principled public representatives in this country"

So principled that he proposed a management suggestion to facilitate privatisaiton. This will lead to higher charges in the long run and importantly, it will lead to the undermining of pay and conditions for Council workers. Eric Byrne did not have to vote for this. If he stood by his alleged principles he would have voted against this proposal. Eric Byrne has abandoned his constituents.

"this bile thrown at him by the extreme left is sickening. They like to put their own self serving spin on everything."

So it's now "extreme left" to demand that jobs and services are protected from privatisation! Chris is doing the whole "red scare" tactic now that many a Blairite has done down the years.

"They dont realise is that if 50 Mick Murphys were elected to Dublin city council it wouldn't make a difference, as it is a highly undemocratic setup."

It is a highly undemocratic set-up. But the difference is that if there was a genuine left majority on the Council instead of the false/fake lefts of Sinn Féin and Labour then the Council would fight on these issues. Why doesn't Labour take on central government? Why don't Labour refuse to pass estimates? Why don't Labour vote against privatisaiton? Instead Labour are in deals with Fine Gael and they are cheer-leaders of Bin Service privatisation. If Dublin City Council abolished the bin tax, refused to pass cut-backs and privatisations they would be supported by Council workers and residents very strongly and would be able to win. Instead Labour (who were in governments that continued the undemocratic Manager system) throw their hands up and refuse to fight for the people that elect them [PS - remember it was one Mick Murphy that revealed GAMA while Labour Cllrs in SDCC refused to even debate the topic when raised - suppose that "extreme left" cllr 'made no difference' on that?]

Chris there is no two ways about it. You are not a left-winger when you vote for the privatisation of local services and for the inevitable race to the bottom in jobs and conditions. Eric Byrne is not left-wing. He's a populist and a bit of a chancer.

by DM - Labour Party Fri Oct 05, 2007 18:11

Lynx Minx

The motion wasn't for privatisation the motion was for all the Dublin councils to use the same service so it's coordinated, this is an extremely sensible move that's why all parties voted for it. Who gets the contract is the next debate and Byrne himself (as I pointed out in the post above) wants the whole contract to be public.

Please base you rants on some Facts!

by Lynx Minx Fri Oct 05, 2007 19:43

This is a step towards privatisation. It's is designed to make privatisation easier. Why doesn't Labour argue that the Council should not be coming up with any plan to allow privatisation. Instead Eric Byrne proposed that plans be drawn up about how it can be privatised. Point is that is should not be privatised at all and there should be no plans at all to privatise. Labour are in power in Dún Laoghaire Rathdown and they privatised. DLR Council handed over names and addresses of residents to help Panda send out mail-shots. Now Panda will be bidding to get all of DLR service and the other 3 councils! The criteria for the competing waste companies (Thorntons, Panda, and others) will be who can deliver best "value" to the Council. Even though their won't be individual routes privatised there is still the "race to the bottom" in terms of wages and working conditions for the Bin workers. You Blairites should stop trying to spin.

by Sascha Funke - International Socialist Gigolo (Personal Capacity) Fri Oct 05, 2007 20:13

"Eric Byrne is one of the most principled public representatives in this country, this bile thrown at him by the extreme left is sickening. They like to put their own self serving spin on everything."

Chris 'A' Bond and the rest of the Labour Kids from UCD only started canvassing for Eric Byrne after the original candidate they selected, Aidan Culhane, outed himself as a staunch supporter of Zionist aggression in the Middle East. Whooops a daisy!

They then canvassed against two genuine socialists and community activists running in the constituency - Joan Collins and Brid Smith. Both had played pivotal roles in organising the local community against the bin tax. Both had argued that a defeat for the campaign would lead to a privatisation of the bin service like in other local authorities where communities have seen charges rising through the roof.

Eric Byrne was nowhere to be seen during this important social struggle. And neither were the labour kids for that matter.

"They dont realise is that if 50 Mick Murphys were elected to Dublin city council it wouldn't make a difference, as it is a highly undemocratic setup."

You don't even need 50 Mick Murphys on Dublin City Council. 47 will do. This is the number of socialist councillors on Liverpool City Council who took on Thatcher and "built five thousand houses, created thousands of jobs, opened more nursery schools than any other city and they refused to transfer the burden of Tory government cuts on to the backs of the working people of Liverpool. "
< http://www.liverpool47.org/ >

Many of these brave, principled fighters were members or supporters of the Militant Tendency who were later to be booted out of the Labour Party in Britain and Ireland.

"Its time for a Greater Dublin authority with a directly elected mayor and an end to the system of County managers. Its also time to replace direct taxation in the form of service charges with a proper local government tax"

Sweet baby jesus and the orphans. Chris Bond and the Labour Party want to introduce the Poll Tax.

by Top Cat Fri Oct 05, 2007 22:15

Galloway is on now on Talksport. He said tony Benn " 80" is in the up-coming elections.