The Case Against the EU Lisbon Treaty.

by 4democracy Thu Jan 17, 2008 17:21

Is it true that the Irish Government is including a clause in the referendum vote that will strip the Irish people of the chance to have any further referendi?
If so we're losing even more then we think with this Lisbon Treaty. We Irish will be of no consequence to the Eurocrats or even our own politicans if we vote yes. We will be nothing more then economic units subject to the whims of Corporate Europe.

VOTE NO

by davekey Thu Jan 17, 2008 17:52

"The first is that the way to win is to fight from the left. Irish debates on the EU have focused for too long on "national sovereignty" and defending De Valera's constitution of 1937."

If this is your approach then it's dead in the water before you even start, just like the left. As for "De Valera's constitution" it has served us well for 70 years and is the reason we are the only country out of 27 allowed to vote on this treaty.

by campaigner Fri Jan 18, 2008 02:20

I second davekey. We must start campaigning from where the masses of people are, not from our insulated ideological icebergs. Devalera indeed inserted the need for referenda for constitutional amendments, giving citizens the last say. Up Dev!

by 4democracy Fri Jan 18, 2008 14:03

"Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly" ... "All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way."
Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, Le Monde, June 2007

The Lisbonites just get worse and worse in their attempt to allegedly fool us!

This quote is taken from www.libertas.org

by davekey Fri Jan 18, 2008 19:39

A few more quotes for you:

"The aim of the Constitutional Treaty was to be more readable; the aim of this treaty is to be unreadable... The Constitution aimed to be clear, whereas this treaty had to be unclear. It is a success."
- Karel de Gucht, Belgian Foreign Minister, Flandreinfo, 23 June 2007

"The good thing about not calling it a Constltution is that no one can ask for a referendum on it."
- Giuliano Amato, speech at London School of Econmics, 21 February 2007

"The rejection of the Constitution is a mistake which will have to be corrected ? If the Irish and the Danes can vote Yes in the end, so the French can do it too."
- V.Giscard d'Estaing, speech at the London School of Economics, 28 February 2006

"the Union is the vanguard of this changing world: it indicates a future of Princes without sovereignty. The new entity is faceless and those who are in command can neither be pinned down nor elected ...I don't think it is a good idea to replace this slow and effective method - which keeps national States free from anxiety while they are being stripped of power - with great institutional leaps...Therefore I prefer to go slowly, to crumble pieces of sovereignty up little by little, avoiding brusque transitions from national to federal power. "
- Italian Prime Minister Giuliano Amato, later Vice-President of the EU Constitutional Convention, interview with Barbara Spinelli, La Stampa, 13 July 2000

by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain Sat Jan 19, 2008 17:27

Apparently the Green Party members have supported the NO vote.

by Green constitution Sat Jan 19, 2008 20:45

the party required a 2/3 majority to support the treaty, if you look at the media- you will see
a disparity between RTE and TV3.
RTE emphasis that the party 'almost did it'.
TV3 say that the constitution matters.

37% of the Greens incl. Pat Mc Kenna voted against.

One silly woman thinks climate change in big red letters is more important than either
debate or basic knowledge on human rights. The Greens need more women
raising the issues-and not the silly easily led types that think that because E Ryan
supports Lisbon, then it must be ok.

its important that equal funding is given and media time to those within the Party
whose opinion would differ with the parliamentary leaders, afterall they were looking at
instituting protections for Gormley and Ryan if they went with FF in the absence of a 2/3
majority= don't believe everything the media spins.
patricia has said that she is a Green and will not leave the party unless she is expelled,
it is important that she is heard and Edward Horgan, on issues of defence.

by Michael Martin - TaraWatch Sat Jan 19, 2008 21:01

Only 315 out of 2100 Green Party members voted. A crushing defeat for Gormley and Co!

by hands up high Sun Jan 20, 2008 15:38

If a secret ballot had been allowed, as opposed to people having to face down glowering party leadersip and apparchiks, the vote against would have been even more substantial. Still it felt sweet.

by John Doe Mon Jan 21, 2008 18:05

I disagree strongly with the previous poster. The Green Party are far from any kind of triumph for the left. The 37% No that the Green Party membership gave is PATHETIC. Not only are the leadership of the Greens utter sell-outs, but so are the majority of the rank-and-file membership. The Green position on the EU was one of their key policies. Many people voted Green because of their opposition to big business dominated Europe. The Green Party membership (not just leaders) have delivered yet another slap in the face to the people that voted for them in the belief that they are in someway opposed to the status quo in society.

The Green fudge on the Lisbon Treaty is not a triumph. The fudge allows Green TDs and Senators to campaign to the Yes side and it will allow the other establishment parties such as FG, FF, PDs and Labour to point to the Greens and say: "Look at those lads, they opposed all other EU treaties but now back this one, now you should do the same". I've no great faith in Patricia McKenna. She supports the FF/PD/GP government and she is still a member of the Green Party. I think the genuine members of the Greens (yes, there are some there among the 37%) should campaign against the Treaty but also campaign against the Government on all issues and LEAVE the Green Party.

Tara, Shell to Sea, Bertie's corruption, Health crisis, Education crisis, privatisation, tax breaks to big business, Lisbon Treaty.... all done with Green Party support. I look forward to giving ye lot a serious ear-bashing if you knock on my door at the next election!

by JOSBRADDEL - WWW.THEHANDSTAND.ORG Tue Jan 22, 2008 02:13

It is rumoured in Europe that many French Socialists are calling for a referendum.

Page 29 http://ww.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/IMG/pdf/Lisbon_treaty.e...7.pdf reveals that the EU Atomic Energy community Treaty is to be legalised and co-ordinated with the Lisbon Treaty - may force Ireland to build Nuclear Facilities

The Irish Constitution named there will continue to disable the medical authorities to take fetal test for cistic fibrosis which would ensure abortion of any victims as is performed throughout Europe

by Irish Stu Sat Mar 22, 2008 08:03

Lets be honest about the greens leadership.

As far as I can tell Greens = Ecofacists.

Isn't Mr Gormley quite fond of incinerators at the moment.

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The man disgusts me, and It's quite easy to see through his paper thin vail.