Demonstration in solidarity with Gaza

by pat c Mon Jan 21, 2008 14:35

Here is a report from the PFLP website; more at link.

Palestinian refugees in the Yarmouk Refugee Camp in Syria demonstrated Friday January 18, 2008 against US/Israeli massacres in Gaza calling for an immediate stop of the Zionist aggression against our people in the occupied West Bank and Gaza.

Demonstrators raised Palestinian flags and banners of Hamas, PFLP and Islamic Jihad. They chanted against the US / Israeli plans and occupation in Palestine, Iraq and Lebanon. They called for Arab and international support for Palestinians and the opening of borders with Egypt. National and Islamic forces expressed their commitment to resistance in a statements distributed in the camp; they demanded an end to the siege imposed by US and Israel on Palestinians, particularly in the Gaza strip.

by pat c Mon Jan 21, 2008 14:39

The resistance against Israeli terror continues.

Sunday, January 20, 2008, the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades claimed responsibility for firing two mortar shells at the Kerem Shalom (Karem Abu Salem) area and shelled the colony of Sderot with mortars.

This operation comes as response to the siege and massacres against our people in Gaza. Resistance will continue till the end of the Israeli occupation.

Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades
Military Information Department

by pat c Mon Jan 21, 2008 17:29

Another report from Gaza. Full text at link.

A humanitarian crisis is underway as the Gaza Strip's only power plant began to shut down on Sunday, and the tiny coastal territory entered its third full day without shipments of vital food and fuel supplies due to Israel's punitive sanctions.

The Gaza Strip's power plant has completely shut down on Sunday because it no longer has the fuel needed to keep running. One of the plant's two electricity-generating turbines had already shut down by noon.

A Palestinian economist Hasan Abu Ramadan said the current humanitarian disaster in the Gaza Strip will be deepened by the blockade on fuel and food supplies. He warned that Gaza Strip could go from a situation of deep poverty to all out famine, disease, and malnutrition.

Abu Ramadan said that more than 80% of the Strip's 1.5 million residents have been surviving with the help of food aid from international organizations such as UNRWA for Palestinian refugees.

by Noel Mon Jan 21, 2008 17:51

Only 25% of the electricity supply should be affected.
The remaining 75% comes from the Israeli and Egyptian grids.

Hamas, who control the electricity output, have created artificial shortages.
They have inflicted hardship on Palestinians for political and propaganda gains.
Now that really is worth protesting about.
Any takers?

by Noelle Mon Jan 21, 2008 18:33

What proof is your argument based Noel? We need a bit more information to take you seriously. As someone who has visited Palestine recently I will be at the protest to show support for the Palestinian people.

by Babs Mon Jan 21, 2008 18:56 babsb at onetel dot com

Officials in Hamas-run Gaza said that the
cut in power threatened basic services and posed a health threat because
councils were unlikely to be able to pump water, treat sewage, dispose of
rubbish or cater for hospital laundry services" because "the only
electricity plant in the seaside territory closed down after Israel severed
fuel supplies".

However Gaza uses 200 megawatts of electricity, 65
megawatts coming from the local power plant, which is supplied by Israeli
fuel oil [whereas] 120 megawatts come directly from Israel and the rest from
Egypt"

The Hamas administration could avoid this problem by restricting supplies to
such basic services but it would appear to be more interested in insuring
that the workshops that produce Kassam rockets that are fired daily against
Israeli towns should not have their 'war-effort' disrupted.

If a few"children and sick people are dying" in consequence, it might see this as a
further benefit since it can use such heart-rending pictures as propaganda
against Israel.

by Babs Mon Jan 21, 2008 21:05 babsb at onetel dot com

R E A D T H I S before you demonstrate !

Supply of electricity to Gaza continues
The supply of electricity to Gaza from the Israel and the Egyptian power grids continues and represents about three quarters of Gaza's electricity needs.

In response to media inquiries regarding power outages in Gaza, the Israel Foreign Ministry spokesman stated Sunday evening (20 January 2008):

The supply of electricity to Gaza from the Israel and the Egyptian power grids (124 Megawatts and 17 Megawatts respectively) has continued uninterrupted.

These 141 Megawatts of power represents about three quarters of Gaza's electricity needs.

While the fuel supply from Israel into Gaza has indeed been reduced, due to the Hamas rocket attacks, the diversion of this fuel from domestic power generators to other uses is wholly a Hamas decision - apparently taken due to media and propaganda considerations.

Noteworthy is the fact that while the Gaza population remains in the dark, the fuel generating power to the Hamas rocket manufacturing industry continues to flow unabated.

The Hamas claim of humanitarian crisis in Gaza is also greatly exaggerated.

There is no shortage of basic foodstuffs, and Gaza patients who need treatment in Israeli hospitals continue to travel into Israel for care.

This is CONFIRMATION of the way HAMAS mis treats the ARABS of GAZA

by Ghost Tue Jan 22, 2008 21:43

I firmly agree that the Palestinian state needs to exist as does the state of Isreal. Having said that I think that the Arab countries have been screaming about the injustices they have been facing at the hands of Isreal and teh USA for long enough. It is well overdue for these folks to come to grips with the facts. You cannot slander,bomb and other wise cause world wide problems and not expect retribution. Have any of you thought "hey, maybe if we stop forcing our way of life on people, stop killing LOADS of people with suicide bombers, and stop firing rockets at Isreal, Maybe, just maube we will finnally get peace in the middle east !!! " I for one and REAL tired of hearing about the poor muslims and the poor Palestinians and the poor Isrealies. Give it a rest!

by Pligrim. Tue Jan 22, 2008 22:24

I suggest these armchair zionists go to Palestine and see the situation for themselves before they make their statements of solidarity with the poor Israeli people who slandered. Ah poor babies!

by Eyes open Wed Jan 23, 2008 09:31

Well Bab's the Israeli foreign ministry would say that, wouldn’t they? If you were in their position wouldn’t you?

I’ve met an Israeli foreign ministry spokesman in Jerusalem and the guy had all the polished manner, the unblinking look of a extremely competent and frequent liar. Like a salesman that you instinctively knew you couldn’t trust. It’s his department’s job to publish spin and propaganda to cover up the atrocities that his government and military commit. Plain and simple.

If you wanted to prove inaccuracies that you claim are happening in the coverage of this current (and ongoing) humanitarian crises in Gaza, why would you cite one of the sources that just cannot be even-handed or independent?

Gaza is an open air prison with people travelling for medical treatment waiting hours and often dying at the checkpoints to enter Israel. These are the people that your press release gibly states “patients who need treatment in Israeli hospitals continue to travel into Israel for care.” What about people who can’t be moved? If you had to get into Israel for urgent or recurring medical treatment, how long would you be prepared to wait?

by the digger Wed Jan 23, 2008 09:53

As long as Hamas;

1. Controls Gaza;

2. Fire rockets from Gaza in to Israel to attempt to kill and injure as many people as possible;

3. Refuses to recognise the State of Israel;

4. Has at its avowed aims the destuction of the State of Israel and the extermination of international jewry;

5. Impose Sharia law wherever its' writ runs;

6. Has as its final goal the recapture of all muslim lands form the Crusdaer (no, really);

Is it any wonder Israel wishes to restrict their activity as much as possible?

Where is the Palestinian and wider Arab leadership here? The only hope for peace is a two state solution (like the one that existed in 1948 before the various arab countries decided the only good jew was a dead jew) with both parties recognising the right of the other to exist in peace.

Hamas will never be a party to that: what is the Arab world doing to deal with this obstacle?

by Eyes open Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:22

Digger

– I love the way that you dismiss the accusation of war crimes as “same old same old”. The Geneva Conventions were a set of rules which were adopted by all UN members in the hope that we would exercise some caution in the way that we attempt to destroy each other. This isn’t attempting to get information from some farmer/terrorist and breaking the rules by so doing. (Still wrong by the way) What the Israelis are doing contravenes not only War Crimes laws but also any attempt at logic. If they really wanted to stop the rocket attacks, then how is shutting of the power going to stop it? All it will do is foster hatred to everybody affected, and that’s everybody in Gaza. You can’t have selective collective punishment. Where will the moderates of the future that Israel can deal with come from, if the Israelis are busy radicalising every person that lives there. If your sister or brother was affected (for example your sister died because she couldn’t get medical treatment), would your anger be direct at a militant political party or the oppressor?

Isolated rocket attacks by their very nature cannot be stopped by the measures the Israelis are choosing. The collective punishment of the Gazans has not stopped them and probably will not stop them.

The Israelis have been in control of Gaza borders since the pull out and they still have not been able to prevent the attacks. The fact remains that the Zionists have their boot on the Palestinians’ neck and the rocket attacks are used as an excuse for continuing illegal actions. I don’t love or support Hamas but what that’s happening to the people is wrong. Anybody can see that. Your dismissal of such basic human rights is worrying.

To discuss some of your points:

Hamas don’t control Gaza. What sort of control do you think a government/administration has when they cannot even keep the light and heat on for their people? They have extremely limited access beyond their borders and no control over customs and imports, hence the shortage of food, medicine, fuel and other goods, despite the line from the Israeli Foreign Ministry that Babs was trotting out above. If you can move around in a prison, you’re still in a prison.

I don’t think that Hamas should fire rockets into Israel but what would you expect that a people under such political, military and even social oppression do. Does an occupied/oppressed nation have a right to resist?

This ‘recognise states’ malarkey is ridiculous. Political parties don’t recognise states. States recognise states. This is nothing more than a ploy by the Israelis to maintain the status quo by establishing reconditions before any talks/agreements and push the blame (lack of cooperation) back onto the Palestinians.

The position of Hamas regarding Israel is unlikely to change if the status quo (killing civilians, collective punishment etc) is actively maintained. Hamas let out some quiet indications last year that they are willing to adopt a different policy (see 'No Man's Land' - Richard Crowley) but as both sides are focused on the physical rather than the political/negotiations, nothing will improve.

The issue isn’t what other states are doing to help the Palestinians. It’s what the
Israelis are going to the people of Gaza and the West Bank.

You mentioned 1948. Do you think that Israel will be a party to a state (no race was more deserving of a homeland by the way) based on 1948 boundaries? That would be a fairer deal than the Palestinians would ever hope to get.

by the digger Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:47

Rule no. 1: Palestinians & the wider Arab community generally will not take responsibility for their own actions, or inactions.

The conflict must always be boiled down to a question of what Israel should do or should not do.

>You mentioned 1948. Do you think that Israel will be a party to a state (no race was more deserving of a homeland by the way) based on 1948 boundaries? That would be a fairer deal than the Palestinians would ever hope to get. <

They did agree. And they got invaded for it. A harsh lesson learned, I would think.

The repetition of rule no. 1 by Eyes Open (was ever a contributors name as incongrously chosen?) will mean I will decline to comment on this thread further.

by Eyes open Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:26

I was there man, seeing the things I saw made an impression. I came away with more information than I had when I went. You could say that it was a bit of an eye opener.

Please stop defending the collective punishment of an entire nation.

by Noel Wed Jan 23, 2008 15:03

Border crossings are closed and it's collective punishment.
Rocket attacks, deliberately targetted at murdering civilians and it's resistance.

The 'war crimes' mantra is particularly hollow and ironic in this case

by Eyes open Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:27

Noel-

You are great man for posting up three line comments with nothing to back them up. (See your 25%/75% comment earlier.)

There are major differences in what the here arguments are.

Firstly I am not defending the use of Kassam rockets but yourself and other posters above are defending the practice of disciplining an entire population in an most harsh and extreme manner. This is completely illegal in international law. I posed the question does an occupied population have a right to resist? Will you answer that in a yes or no answer? It’s a simple question.

Secondly you seem to misunderstand the word collective. If a military power cracks down on a population in the manner that is happening currently in Gaza, then there is no escape, everybody will be collectively affected. The rocket attacks are wrong.
They attack civilians and that is illegal. By one or two decisions (e.g. blockade the entire country) everybody is affected relatively immediately. This is not similar to the rocket attacks, where the pressure or fear of the attack may be great but people could live for years there and not be physically affected. Plus they can move away from the danger area and back again when it suits them. The Gazans are not given that luxury.

Your deliberate attempt at lessoning the crimes on one side while mentioning the worst on the other, just highlights the nature of your argument.

“Border crossings are closed and it's collective punishment.
Rocket attacks, deliberately targeted at murdering civilians and it's resistance”

It’s not just ‘Border crossings are closed’ that has caused the current crises. This implies simple restriction of movement. Only part of the array of weapons that the Israelis use against the people of Gaza include starvation, removal of basic facilities, "targeted" murder, denial of medicine and medical treatment. This increases the difficulty of the people of Gaza to run a society that can provide for its people and eventually result in happy, well adjusted citizens. How is this supposed to stop rocket attacks? It is designed to destroy the society so when the time comes to negotiate some sort of deal, the Palestinians will be totally broken, have nothing to bargain with and have to accept whatever deal the Israeli and the US throw at them. Please don’t fool yourself that these actions are intended to stop rocket attacks or are in retaliation to them, the malignant influence of these Israeli actions will go way beyond the issue of rocket attacks. It is calculated to do so.

It is with this sort of realisation that the so called ‘moral argument/authority’ that the Israeli people used to have is slipping. An example of this is unusual move by the EU earlier requesting that the Israeli allow some power etc back into Gaza, which they duly did. Was the ‘rocket attack’ argument not powerful enough to continue with the blockade? It is a nothing but a ‘drip, drip’ policy of oppression.

Even Sky News was reporting on Monday that there was a “sense that the Israelis had overplayed their hand” (as far as I can remember the quote). If Sky News is telling you that you have gone too far, then you probably have.

This has shades of Lebanon (2006) all over again… Israelis come in with a ‘total war’ type situation, do far more damage that would be logically deemed necessary to achieve their stated goals. This would lead me to believe that these goals are not stopping the rocket attacks but to make the people of the area suffer such hardship on many different levels

The occupation is destroying both societies, Israeli and Palestinian. The number of disaffected Israeli soldiers that are suffering the equivalent of post traumatic stress disorder is increasing year on year. As all must serve in the army, it is very difficult to escape being affected. A non-mercenary army finds it very difficult to fight colonial (invasion of others land’s and disciplining populations to prepare them for subject-like rule) wars. Forcing teenagers to harm old women and babies (not including agreed legitimate freedom fighters/terrorists) only stores up trouble both individually and socially for the future. It is not sustainable in the long term

You say that ‘war crimes’ is a “hollow” argument in this case. It is not. It is perfectly applicable to the Israeli actions. If you make a counter war crimes claim against the rockets attacks against civilians, then there is probably not a lot I could say about it. But the Israelis ARE committing war crimes, both on a far greater scale, with much greater impact than the rocket attacks. How is that going to stop the attacks?

You could ask yourself the question if that the Palestinians has an almost unequivocal backing of a generous benefactor such as the US, who gave them the suitable weapons and technology necessary to allow them to attack military bases, would they waste their time attacking fortified colonies or would they go for the military? I guess we’ll never know.

Finally I’m not trying to sort out the whole Israeli/Palestinian issue or find a negotiated agreement by working through the ‘apportioning of blame’ in order to get to a such a settlement. What I’ve been saying since I started posting on this thread, despite the apologists for such actions, is that the actions of the Israelis are collective punishment and this is illegal, immoral and wrong.

The Jewish people know far more than I do about collective action against an entire people.

by PaddyK Thu Jan 24, 2008 14:52

Hello there,

Anybody got any reports of how the event went ? Any reports or pictures?

by MichaelY - IAWM and IPSC Thu Jan 24, 2008 15:33

It was quite good PaddyK

Check the other thread with pics and a video:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/85911&comment_limit=0&c...18120

Solidarity