Lisbon Treaty…. Hammered by the Irish!

by Eggball Fri Feb 15, 2008 21:04

When it comes to EU treaties, is it not the custom that if Britain says no, the treaty is dead, if Germany says no, the treaty is dead, if France says no, the treaty is dead, but if we reject it we get to keep democratically voting until we do it right?

In theory, the EU is a great idea; its transnational existence should allow it to control the excesses of transnational capital, but in reality, those who run it - just like our national politicians - don't do anything which might harm their prospects of appointment to the boards of the big multinationals when they retire from office. Maybe it's time we thought about dismantling the EU and going back to the nation state, where the citizen at least had some input and his vote had some (however small) effect.

by Liz Sun Feb 17, 2008 20:37

The No campaign is really coming together. there's broad agreement , a wide and increasing coalition of groups and individuals and some laughs. This is the biggest political campaign in Ireland in quite some time and it's a good one.

The Irish people are being asked to trust Bertie and sign a binding legal document with no information on what it means. As the treaty would be 'self-amending' a yes vote would mean never having to vote on EU changes again. We have one shot at this and that's more than France or the Netherlands is getting, so far, despite a 55% no vote in France to the same Constitution. Can we defeat the referendum when all the 'mainstream' parties are for it? In France 90% of politicians urged a yes vote and in the Netherlands it was 82% . The people made up their own minds. 62% of Dutch voters voted no. The facts below come from the Campaign Against the EU Constitution info leaflet.. Nice one Brendan Young, Barry Finnegan and everyone who has read and analysed the whole document so we can have an idea of what it means. the comments and any mistakes are mine. Please check info against the yes info and against the treaty summaries and decide for yourself.

'Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly...All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way.' Constitution drafter Valery Giscard d'Estaing in an interview with Le Monde newspaper.

'Thankfully they haven't changed any of the substance.' Bertie Ahern.

'There will be no treaty if we had a referendum in France.' Sarkozy.

This campaign is a real chance to have a debate on what kind of europe people want. As the only country getting a referendum, thanks to Raymond Crotty's Supreme Court challenge, we are voting for the whole of the EU, which says a lot about democracy right there.

What would the Lisbon Treaty mean? It would effectively make the EU a state, complete with laws that supersede national laws. It's an EU Constitution by another name.The EU would have its own president, Tony Blair is currently angling for the job! It would also have one foreign minister and take a single stance on foreign policy and trade, which national governments would not be allowed to deviate from. (Article 188). This would make it impossible for any one state to negotiate for Fair Trade for example and so directly affects developing countries. The EU currently negotiates at the WTOas a block. This treaty would copperfasten this single trade policy and extend it. Similarly, a single foreign policy means that Ireland wou;d lose the right to an independent foreign policy and could not support the establishment of a Palestinian state, for example, unless the EU foreign minister let us, or voice opposition to a war, if the large EU states supported one.

The treaty brings in Qualified majority voting, which gives votes to member states based on size of population, taking away current veto powers in 67 policy areas. While this would be more democratic if all the states were identical, with identical interests and policies and people what we would actually have would be one state, one leader, many peoples, with greatly reduced access to power and decision-making.

Ireland would lose its current permanent comissioner to one every 3 years which would mean that for two thirds of the time we would have no one on the commission to help decide the laws we'd be enacting. The commission, which is the lawmaking body of the EU is already unelected and so even more unaccountable to citizens than our national governments are.

The treaty would open health and education to privatization. (Article 188 and 188b). Water charges are crippling schools and hospitals right now because the current vision of the EU sees health and education as businesses like any other business. Article 87 also restricts government spending on public services.The Lisbon Treaty places the right to establish a business above all other rights including the right to collective wage bargaining as strike action will not be possible for anything over the minimum wage, even if an agreement on higher salaries had been reached. This effectivley renders trade unions reduntant. On top of this country of origin terms will apply meaning it would be possible to pay worjers in Ireland what they would be paid in their home country. This would set Irish and other EU workers against each other in a wage race to the bottom making 'competitiveness' actually mean increased profit for corporations, while further undermining workers' rights.

Economic policy would no longer be a matter for national governments, article 115a and price stability, not employment is the only criteria.Article 245a. For what this means, think Thatcherite Britain at the time of the miner's strike. The policy is the same, small government, privatization and public service cut-backs. The idea is that public servics like health and education are goods to be paid for and should not be provided by the state but should be opened up to private industry.

The much touted Charter of Fundamental Rights would not be mandatory. It has no teeth which makes it a nod at a social Europe and gives Labour Partyies an excuss to vote for the treaty. Similarly the reference to CLimate Change is just a reference. It has no power to actually do anything about climate change. See Article 174.1

Bottom line. The treaty is about copperfastening a single market, which views workers rights and environmental protection as impediments to business. This is 'free-trade' fundamentalism with a side order of toothless social proposals. It's unaccountable and unacceptable and they are hoping against hope that we won't notice. Yes they will work around a no vote but we'll be watching and why make it easier for them. A no vote in Ireland will give strength to campaigns for referenda in other Eu countries.

There are campaign groups being set up all over the country to go door to door , radio stations etc. to get the message out as to what this treaty is. The more the merrier.

by Adam Bolger - None Mon Feb 25, 2008 17:09 adam_shayne at hotmail dot com

I am incensed, aggravated and extremely upset!! Ok i didn't vote for Fianna Fail in the last election but i'm stuck with them, at least til the by-election or beyond!! HOW DARE FIANNA FAIL, THE PDS and the GREENS(those greedy bastards[excuse the language] who sold their souls to sleep with the devil!!) MISLEAD THE IRISH PEOPLE about the Lisbon Treaty. It's a Farce and a blatant grab for power by europe's elite(arrogant, pompous bureaucrats who ignore their own citizens in their lust for power). I am not here 'to be led to adopt an idea' which any politician 'daren't openly offer me' or to be fooled into accepting anything that ratifies the irish constitution but by my own educated decision and the decisions of the irish people as a whole. SHAME ON FIANNA FAIL for not sharing any information with their voters and with the electorate. But then again i'm annoyed at myself for expecting more from Fianna Fail given their past record and the record of an Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern. Congratulations to you on the website. it's very informative, unlike any 'Yes' argument(and i have googled lots) where ALL THEY SAY is that a 'Yes' vote will be good for Ireland and that if we vote 'No', we'll be the laughing stock of Europe!!!(that's the total sum of their argument by the way!) I propose that the current Rainbow Coalition of our great island is the LAUGHING STOCK of the Irish people and they should be far more concerned with that, than with the concerns of their careers post politics!!! I am not a member of any organisation and do not write this representing any but i am a normal, lay, irish citizen and I WILL NOT be a pawn in europe's chess game!!! I am voting 'NO' in this Referendum and i urge every other logical, irish person to do the same. ""Fool me once Shame on you, Fool me twice Shame on me."