The Growth of IrishRepublican.net

by Jim Fri Apr 04, 2008 14:39

The whole idea of revolutionary groups is secrecy.
I have no doubt the government will be UNABLE to find out the names of the 2,000 members and find out where they live, work, personal details etc etc.

by Bakunin Fri Apr 04, 2008 14:55

"The whole idea of revolutionary groups is secrecy. "This is not true

The largest revolutionary organisation engaged in revolutionary struggle in history was probably the spanish CNT in the 1930's which had about 2.2 million members. Its professed aim was a revolutionary general strike which it initiated in July 1936. It was open to anyone who was a worker.

Even the Provisional IRA (which I wouldn't regard as revolutionary) was not entirely secret. In the 70's and 80's many people knew who the local members were and in the North the British establishment also new most of the membership. The method they seem to have operated from was secrecy in action- the key issue was not whether anyone knew you were a member but whether the state could prove it.

How can you transform society if its a secret - the whole point is that people identify with your ideas and engage and act on them

by ??? Fri Apr 04, 2008 15:31

Most of it's membership was working for the British establishment?

by Cael - Sinn Fein Fri Apr 04, 2008 18:52

I post on this forum myself quite a bit and Id say it is quite good. Its quite a feat keeping a forum going that has everyone from the supporters of RSF and 32CSM to the supporters of British Crown Ministers posting. However, impartial it is not. There is a strong bias among the aministration towards PSF. I have had threads closed because I told jokes about Gerry Adams. Titles have also been altered because they they refered to RSF as Sinn Fein (this may be a matter of opinion, but on that basis alone it is showing bias to enforce a law saying that only Provisional Sinn Fein may be refered to as Sinn Fein.)

by Cael - Sinn Fein Fri Apr 04, 2008 18:58

"How can you transform society if its a secret - the whole point is that people identify with your ideas and engage and act on them?"

Yes I agree, this was a major failing after Gerry Adams reorganised PIRA into a cell structure. PIRA became far too far removed from the general population and it became much easier for the enemy to isolate them.

by republican socialist - non- aligned Fri Apr 04, 2008 19:27

I was originally heartened to see a site that had both pro and anti Belfast agreement posters on engaging with one another , a long overdue development and some of the discussions were very interesting and informative , although often heated as one would expect . Sadly the preponderence of a few highly dedicated trolls reduced it to a moronic level on a regular basis , probably deliberately I suspect .. In particular the posters named "Foyleview "and "East Tyrone" whose only purpose that I could make out seemed to be to wreck threads with abuse and commentary calculated to put an end to any intellectual discourse or mutual understanding . That type of stuff put me off registering for what looked like feeding time at the zoo although I had originally intended participating after lurking a while and seeing where people were coming from . One poster just kept claiming over and over again that any republican not on board with the GFA was working for MI5 , no matter what the subject was . No attempt was made to stop him . So I stopped looking at it long ago and sadly they succeeded in what was probably their aim , just became overly predictable whatever the subject .
Still the idea for the project was a good one and maybe someday people willing to get rid of trolls and encourage proper debate will launch a similar project and raise the level of a much needed debate .
It was however good for a laugh to read the seriously dumb comments from some of the US based Gerry Adams devotees . Some absolute classics

by Rahaline Fri Apr 04, 2008 22:04

Bakunin, the was indeed a revolutionary component part of the Provisionals. This being the Republican element. The Provisionals had a revolutionary programme called Eire Nua , at least it did while it maintained a revolutionary Republican leadership. Now certain leftists may have a distaste for those particular Republicans (not to be confused with those who have completely misrepresnted it) yet there is no doubt they represented the most Revolutionary element to exist here.

Don't knock the political content because a man wears a suit or prays, if his politics (not style or faith) can bring true change. Fact isthe irish people through Eire Nua could've brought great change and if only people would judge it on merit rather than its origin we still can!

by & by Fri Apr 04, 2008 22:14

or is this site, Irish Republican.net always slow in turning over if thats the phrase?

by been there Sat Apr 05, 2008 15:48

Eire Nua was a discussion paper by Roy Johnston for sinn fein a education weekend,that took place in Dublin in 1967 or 68,I was there.

by EN way forward Sat Apr 05, 2008 19:31

the first rough outline copy was indeed drafted by Roy J. and Sean O'B. However, It was under the provisional caretaker executive that it waas brought out dusted off and enhanced and made Republican policy. Years before the Roy crowd could figure out exactly what their politics consisted of other than left sloganeering. The socialist blog "Splintered Sunrise ' states about Eire Nua"

"...Comhar na gComharsan and linked it back to Pearse’s Sovereign People and the Democratic Programme of the First Dáil. The nationalisation of natural monopolies, workers’ control of industry, rural cooperatives and radical federalism might have seemed like an eclectic mix, although, with the exception of federalism, practically everything in Éire Nua had been part of the common discourse of the united Sinn Féin in the mid-to-late 1960s (we dumped the tincture of Communist Party Stalinism and kept the rest)."

In an preceeding essay on that particular blog it is stated on why Eire Nua found such support in the west :

"The problems associated with the West – underdevelopment, depopulation, remoteness from the centres of power, the lack of a voice for the Irish-speaking minority – have been historically connected to the unevenness of Irish economic development, and in particular the overdevelopment of Greater Dublin. These problems are further accentuated by the neutered – virtually powerless – local government structures inherited by the Saorstát from the old British system"

and:

"So you can see that a genuine popular movement in the West – the Cearta Sibhialta movement in Conamara springs to mind – would find itself open to republican proposals for radical decentralisation. Leaping forward to the present day, and even without talking in terms of socialist revolution, there is a reasonable possibility that a Dáil Chonnacht would have handled the Rossport fiasco better than the Dublin kleptocracy. To make sure of that, of course, you would require a serious overhaul of the Irish social and economic system."

No Shell to Sea
No Tara debacle
No years of strife

All that was possible and more than a few hold still is if the people get behind Eire Nua!

The above quotes appeared on this blog here:

http://splinteredsunrise.wordpress.com/

and the articles are collected here:

http://admin2.7.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=8225&highli...skies

by Barry - 32 csm Sat Apr 05, 2008 22:12

While Ive a number of differences with RSF i fully support their eire nua document as a blueprint for a future Irish democracy within a sovereign nation . There is no point , unlikely as it is , of having a 32 county free state . As Connolly stated we would still be ruled by others . As Pearse stated the people must be sovereign , lord and master . That entails full power to the people , all power to the people . Democracy from the grass roots up is the best manner in whcih full sovereignty in all its forms can be be achieved , and when acheived experienced , persued and the resulting benefits from republicanism and sovereignty defended by those who benefit .
Where I disagree with RSF is on their attitude as to how it can be achieved . Democracy cannot be brought to the people by telling them they must accept a secret body of seven unaccountable individuals as their unelected government .