Irish Redress Board Condems Innocent Men.

international | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis

Saturday May 03, 2008 18:35

by Setanta - Victims of The State and the Legal Profession.

Innocent victims are guilty by perception.

Under the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 the Irish Residential Institutions Redress Board came into being. I submit that Its conduct and operation constitutes a gross violation of National and International Human and Civil Rights.It encourages unscrupulous applicants and professional people to lie, conceal information and give false evidence in return for financial awards.It denies it's victims their right to innocence unless proved otherwise, and hides behind a wall of absolute secrecy.
No person is safe from the Irish Redress Board.

The Irish Residential Institutions Redress Board Condemns Innocent Men.

The Redress Board was established to deal with issues of alleged abuse in industrial schools. Such was the level of complaints of mistreatment and assault inflicted on children for generations, that special action had to be taken.

The Irish Government brought in legislation to fast track the complaints. There would be no need for a court hearing. All the complainant had to do was to name the alleged abuser, and his case was processed. Substantial awards were made on this basis. The accused would not be prosecuted, but his name and reputation would be tarnished. That is if he was guilty in the first place.

But what if the accused person was innocent ? What if he had been in the wrong place at the wrong time, and met the wrong people ? Just imagine a situation where your good name had been used to justify a claim, and you being listed as a child abuser to secure a fraudulent claim for someone else. A horrific situation, but one that is not all that uncommon.

Faced with a situation where your name is being used to justify a false claim, what would you do ?

Would you sit tight and hope that the whole thing would blow over, and maybe hope that nobody would hear about it. After all, if there was no prosecution it would not become public. But what about your reputation and your legacy. Things have an unhappy knack of turning up in the most peculiar forms.

One man in the South East of Ireland made a decision. He was not happy. His name had been used by a claimant. A substantial amount of money was awarded on foot of a false allegation, and this innocent man was pilloried as a result.

The fact that this named victim was not prosecuted by the state offered little solace. His reputation and his family life were in tatters. He complained to the Health Services and other state bodies. That’s when the real trouble began. He obviously had walked in on something that was sacrosanct.
It looks now as if the whole thing was a set up.

The claimants could name anyone. As long as they had a name listed, they got their award.

Guilt or innocence had nothing to do with it. The objective was to indemnify those that had suffered in the industrial schools. By hook or by crook, they were going to get their award. When they listed a name, that was it. Everyone then rolled in behind the presumption of guilt.

Priests, Nuns and other parties must have known that innocent men were being condemned.

Did they willingly collude in the whole charade ?

It was one way of getting off the hook. Get someone up to take the hit, and everyone else is purged of guilt. Abuse in the industrial schools was systematic. The authorities must have known what was going on. It suited them to do nothing. If the truth were known, guilt would be spread out to include a wider circle. The Redress Board has put a halt to that. It suited the establishment to contain the problem.

All that was needed was a fall guy, a sacrificial lamb to absorb all the guilt. A man in the South East of Ireland can testify to this. He lived to tell the tale.

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Comments (29 of 29)

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the truth and the money

by Placidus

Mon May 05, 2008 23:47

Awful beatings occurred at industrial schools run by the religious. The governments of those days didn't enquire too much into the operation of those places. One notorious case in the 1940s of a boy who escaped Letterfrack after being terribly bruised and was taken to a doctor after being found in a near-comatose condition was ignored by the Department of Health despite the efforts of an elected public representative to elicit official information.

On the other hand, the creation of a redress board honeypot has attracted the attentions of chancers who want to earn a bit of 'compensation' money. In addition the sensational media attention to sex abuse cases (married male teachers have also been convicted and sentenced) has thrown a ring of suspicion around all former brothers, priests and nuns involved in child care institutions in the past. The media were only too ready to highlight the ex-nun former Sister Nora Wall when she was erroneously convicted of being an accomplice to child rape. Media apologies were slow in coming and never as highly publicised when the conviction was overturned because of evidence by an unreliable witness.

At present there is a distortion of truth arising from a witchhunt media atmosphere. The honeypot factor is also at play.

Sour Grapes

by Orphan Girl - Kids Rights

Wed May 07, 2008 14:31

I was reared in an Religious Institution and suffered abuse, emotional, sexual and physical over a number of years, as did the poor defenseless kids that resided with me. When we went to the authorities for help we were beaten and called liars. The sick bastard priest who raped us repeatedly is now dead so will never be named and shamed.
No amount of money can give us back our childhoods. Incidentally, only a very small percentage of those who resided in those God forsaken hovels applied for compensation. Many have since died early deaths, through suicide and drug addiction.
The Catholic church ( the wealthiest institution in the World) is not even footing the bill for their despicable deeds. We the tax payers are.

On what evidence?

by Stuart

Wed May 07, 2008 17:35

Out of the first 14,000 (FOURTEEN THOUSAND) applications accepted by the tribunal, only "1 has been referred to the Garda Siochána under section 7(6) of the Act. An investigation has been concluded in this matter and the Board has been informed that no criminal prosecution is to be pursued" (page 13, http://www.rirb.ie/documents/2006AnnualReport.doc).

More than 95% (6,947 of the 7,291 completed cases) resulted in a financial award to the applicant - i.e. the RIRB has upheld the victims' complaints in most cases. The overwhelming evidence is that malicious and fraudulent cases are not an issue.

The countless additional victims who have been excluded by deadlines, lack of representation and loss of evidence - not to mention those with mental incapacity and unable to testify - is a far greater injustice. The hounding of victims and legalistic evasions of the likes of Brother David Gibson (provincial leader, St Mary's Province of the Christian Brothers) is a far greater injustice.

Redress Scheme encourages false allegations againt innocent

by hubba

Sun May 11, 2008 16:21

Book by Irish Journalist Hermann Kelly called 'Kathy's Real Story': A culture of false allegations exposed' has a number of chapters about false allegations and the effect of the Redress Board.
Infor about it here
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kathys-Real-Story-Culture-Alleg...51007
and here
http://www.prefectpress.com

The book also looks at the effect of Compensation culture in Ireland.
Chapter 15 of that book is

A Culture of False Allegations
induced by Easy Compensation

‘There should be no hiding place for child abusers or false accusers.’
John Fitzpatrick, Kilkenny

"In Ireland, an environment has been formed which provides financial
inducement for people to make false allegations of abuse."

It continues that:

"Should every citizen in the state have the right to a presumption of
innocence and due process in a court of law? If so, how is this made
manifest in the workings of the Redress Board? Should Catholic religious
accused of abuse be excluded from this right? If so why?
A certain zeitgeist prevails in Ireland, a pervasive cultural spirit of
the age, which people live in and act out without even being aware how
prevalent it is. It would appear that an anti-Church sentiment mixed
with an offer of easy compensation have caused innocent people to be
accused without proper cause.
The Irish Government must take a good part of the blame for the
creation of this culture, for it is this Government which chose to provide
the taxpayers money to fund the Redress Board, compensating
some who were abused but in addition, creating a financial incentive to
others who were not abused, to make false allegations for the sake of
monetary gain.
It is the Government which substantially funds victim support
groups with a large advocacy/campaigning role, such as One in Four,
which have accompanied some false accusers as they went to make
their accusations (which turned out to be fraudulent). It is also the
Government which created and perpetuates the legal framework which
ensures, in de facto terms, few people are ever charged, never mind
convicted for making false claims."

false diagnostic practices

Sun May 11, 2008 23:38

Now that's interesting. I'll have to get a read of the book. Another thing I'll say at this point is the dodgy medical diagnostic practices that crept into sectors of sociology and medical practice in the 1980s onwards. There was the "False Memory" fad in psychology whereby patients were coached to discover childhood traumas that never actually happened. Sociologists in Cleveland (North England) 'diagnosed' child sex abuse by clusters of parents and had the kids rounded up and taken into care, leaving the parents (and cared-for kids) distraught and living under the shadow of mass accusation that was never proved. Some time later a cluster of parents on a Scottish island were 'found' to have practised child abuse and the children snatched away from the homes overnight, with similar traumas. Then in Ireland sometime later a new diagnostic method started in the Rotunda and some parents were 'discovered' to have sexually abused their children. After several years of wading through the bureaucracy of the bland medical profession the parents were vindicated and a top doctor was reprimanded and struck off.

Who are we to believe in an Ireland when members of previously respected professions - clergy, doctors, bankers, lawyers, businessmen - have been found out on a large scale, and professional organisations have hummed and hawed in the face of mounting public disquiet?

George Bernard Shaw's wry comment applies: "Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity."

Journalist has done serive to human rights

by John Fitzgerald

Mon May 12, 2008 12:52

The story of the horrors perpetrated in the Magdalene laundries and industrial schools of Ireland has shocked and sickened all decent people in this country. I know how I felt when I watched the film Song for a Raggy Boy, about the systematic abuse of pupils in a Catholic school, and The Magdalene Sisters, which depicted the abuse of young women in one of those Hibernian gulags to which single mothers were dispatched by supposedly “devout” families.

I have just finished reading a book on this subject, Kathy’s Real Story, by journalist Hermann Kelly.
It details a number of high profile cases where people, mainly involving clergy or members of various religious orders, who wrongly accused of physical or sexual abuse, only to be later cleared of these allegations when the accusers withdrew them. The suffering endured by the victims of these accusers can only be imagined.

From the moment the allegation is made, the priest, nun or Christian Brother is under a dark cloud of suspicion. Though completely innocent, he or she has to live with the unfair and undeserved stigma that a malicious fellow human being has conjured up.

The “crucifixion” of ex-nun Nora Wall is examined in the book, among other harrowing cases. Nora was declared innocent after the false allegations against her were withdrawn and shown to be completely without foundation.

Her friend Pablo McCabe who had also been wrongly accused was vindicated only after his death. He died bearing a burden that no human being should be saddled with.

Both Nora and Pablo had their reputations shredded in the media before being exonerated.
Recently, a man was jailed for concocting a false abuse story about a priest. Other fabricated allegations of abuse concerning priests have been quietly withdrawn following retractions by the accusers. Surely this is a scandal of immense proportions?

RTE and the print media have explored in excruciating detail the institutional abuse that characterised the “Hidden Ireland” of the past. Would it too much to expect that they would apply their investigative skills to ascertaining how widespread is the phenomenon of false abuse accusations and report professionally on the effects of this evil on those afflicted by it? Fair is fair.

Hermann Kelly has done a great service to the cause of justice and human rights in Ireland by exposing the dangers inherent in blind or unquestioning acceptance of abuse allegations that lack credibility or that cannot be substantiated by independent witnesses.

Sexual abuse destroys lives. But so does a false accusation of sexual abuse. That ought to go without saying. There should be no hiding place for anyone who commits either of these crimes against humanity!

Thanking you, John Fitzgerald, Callan, Kilkenny

Unbelievable

by Orphan Girl - Childrens Rights

Mon May 12, 2008 14:20

As Stuart rightly stated the that evidence is that the overwhelming no. claims made to the Redress board are NOT fraudulent, with 95% of applications accepted as fact, others were rejected due to lack of evidence etc.
The real injustice here is that children raped and abused over years will never get justice.
The clergy men and women involved in the abuse and subsequent cover up will not be criminalised for their actions, indeed their names are not even made public.
The Redress board was set up by the gov to protect the Catholic Church. As more and more stories came out and the Huge scale of the systematic rape of children was uncovered, more and more victims started to speak up, mostly, to back up the claims of former residents, who were being vilified by the Media.
The Redress board money is what I call "SHUT UP" money. With victims waiving their right to talk about or seek to prosecute members of the church under criminal Law.
How dare people like Setanta and others on this thread even assume that the victims are lying. The sheer inhumanity of it all sickens me to the very depths of my Soul.

The facts support widespread abuse, not fraud

Mon May 12, 2008 16:44

These individual anecdotal stories, the primary one of which is hotly contested, are not evidence of any culture of fraudulent, malicious or false claims. To my knowledge only one man, with a history of mental illness, has been convicted of one false claim, with the sentence reduced on appeal. One falsely accused woman has had her conviction overturned, without a successful prosecution of the accusers.

On the other hand, look at the sheer scale of actual abuse in Ferns, or the evidence accumulating in the Dublin report:

"8 priests have been convicted in the criminal courts. 3 priests who have been the subject of allegations of child sexual abuse are currently before the courts.
To date, 112 civil actions have been brought against 32 Dublin priests or priests who held appointments in the Diocese. 72 have been concluded and 40 are ongoing.
Settlement of claims has amounted to €7.8 million (€5.6m in settlements and €2.2 m in legal costs for both sides). Since 2003 the Diocese has invested in the region of €3 million in Child Protection service and related services."
(http://www.dublindiocese.ie/index.php?option=com_conten...d=313)

The statistics printed by the Dublin Diocese indicate that at least 4.8% of Dublin priests (135 of 2,800 clerics) have been the subject of allegations of child sexual abuse.

You would have great difficulty in locating reports of false accusations, other than those two I list in the first paragraph above, amongst the exhaustive press releases of the Dublin Diocese child protection service http://www.cps.dublindiocese.ie/cat_index_12.shtml

"Unbelieveable" Orphan Girl.

by Setanta - Victims of the State and Legal Profession.

Sun May 18, 2008 23:54

I have been falsely accused of the most horrendous child sexual crimes by five lying unscrupulous applicants to the Redress Board. The men who have made the false allegations came from the one orphanage.
They have lied in their statements, and perjured themselves before the honorable Redress Board Judge.
The Judge knew that they were lying, their solicitors knew that they were lying, their Barristers knew that they were lying, the Gardai knew that they were lying, and I know that they were lying.
My challenge against those liars and the people who have supported them has been blocked by the Irish State, who are keeping their proceedings and particulars away from the public eye in total secrecy.
My life and my Family has been changed and destroyed by the Redress Board , the Irish State, and the unscrupulous lying applicants.
Someday the truth will be known about this outrageous Redress Board, and maybe then, some sort of justice will be seen by all, including yourself. I look forward to that day.

Setanta

Mon May 19, 2008 17:46

"They have lied in their statements, and perjured themselves before the honorable Redress Board Judge. The Judge knew that they were lying, their solicitors knew that they were lying, their Barristers knew that they were lying, the Gardai knew that they were lying, and I know that they were lying."

I sincerely wish you every success in establishing the truth. The RIRB acknowledges only one malicious false claim (which was not upheld) and it is undeniable that there are others. Very few people, accused or accusers, are happy with the structure of the RIRB, the manner in which cases are selected or the handling of evidence. It is an unhappy compromise created by the government and church from bitter argument, but it is the organisation and structure that everyone has to work with.

I maintain that the evidence is that the overwhelming majority of claims are true, and that it would strengthen your position to use the findings in the RIRB's annual reports and to recognize the intense, lifelong suffering of victims of abuse. If I was in your position I would start with an analysis of the claims not upheld by the RIRB, the reasons they were not upheld, and translate those findings to an estimate of how many false claims may have been upheld. I also recommend that you study the victims' perspective from publications like the SAVI (Sexual Abuse and Violence in Ireland) Report, The Legal Process and Victims of Rape (from http://www.drcc.ie/about/publications.htm) or other victim support groups (http://www.drcc.ie/links/local.htm).

You can only alienate your audience by rejecting the RIRB in its entirety.

Unbelievable "Setanta"

by ?___?

Mon May 19, 2008 20:26

So the Judge, their solicitors, their Barristers and the Gardai, and last but not least your good self "knew that they were lying" ?

Am I to understand that you have somehow developed the ability to read minds? Now I would be among the first to believe that SOME judges, SOME solicitors, SOME Barristers, and SOME Gardai may at some times behave in a way that they should not, but you are indiscriminately smearing a whole, specific, bunch of them by implying they acted in an unprofessional manner. It is clear that they DID NOT believe you, or to put it another way - YOU are the one who is "Unbelieveable".

I note that while you are happy to remain anonymous you did not grant that courtesy when you published, last September on another site, the names and associated RIRB Case Numbers of the four people who testified against you. Publishing that information was in itself an abuse.

Re: "Placidus"

Mon May 19, 2008 20:31

Re: "Placidus"

This has nothing to do with the "false diagnostic practices" cases in Cleveland. None of the cases before the Redress Board involve young children having their memories influenced by psychologists. That is an attempt to cloud the issue. The people making the complaints to the RIRB are all adults, many in their fifties, sixties, and older.

Why?

by We the People

Mon May 19, 2008 23:00

Just a question.
Given the fact that all institutions are insured with some type insurance company , where does the redress board come into the equasion?

For example, Churches and the like are insured with Alliance or Church and General for claims set against them.

Why is it that People are not claiming against the insurance Companies for the actions of the insurers?

The Crooked Irish Redress Board.

Tue May 20, 2008 00:59

My reply to "by ?_____?"
Your understanding of my intelligence is very limited. I am not a mind reader. My deliberations are truthful, and are based on fact.
The evidence is there to be read on paper which is kept in secrecy by the Irish State. Not even a solicitor can gain access to Redress Board documents.
And yes, I know that many applicants to the Redress Board have lied in their statements about me.
The honorable people who work in and operate the Redress Board know that it is fundamentally flawed.
The Redress Board destroys innocent people.The setup of the Board encourages unscrupulous people to lie, commit perjury and give false evidence.There is little or no civil, national ,or international rights, or a comeback for anyone who is falsely accused at the Irish Redress Board.
There is no recognition on the part of the Redress Board for the intense lifelong suffering of victims and their Families from false allegations duly processed by the Board.
There is no redress for the falsely accused, only ostracization from our society, and a lifelong sentence of damnation.
There are no implications in any of my previous submissions. My writings are statements of fact.

Why not the insurers

Tue May 20, 2008 16:04

As far as the financial aspect goes, documents have come to light that make it plain that during Cardinal Desmond Connell's oversight the insurers proposed certain actions and provisions to mitigate against claims of violence and sexual abuse. The church a) rejected their insurer's legal advice, b) failed to disclose allegations and claims of abuse known to them and c) made financial settlements from their own funds. These may invalidate any insurance claim by the church, necessitating the Woods agreement indemnifying the church using taxpayer funds.

But more to the point, the RIRB is intended to act as a tribunal of enquiry. Many of the survivors of abuse have no interest in financial settlements and only want to have their experiences heard.

The Irish Redress Board.

Tue May 20, 2008 16:49

Setanta, I imagine some will find it ironic that you are railing so abusively against an organisation widely perceived (rightly or wrongly) as established by, and biased in favour of, the accused. Again I sincerely propose that you engage in a more constructive dialogue that does not, unintentionally or deliberately, demean the vast majority of truthful witnesses at the RIRB because you are undoing your own case.

These guidelines were developed by the General Commission on Christian Unity and Interreligious Concerns as a part of a series of dialogues on theological diversity that were held in 1997 and 1998.

* Respect the personhood of others, while engaging their ideas.
* Carefully represent the views of those with whom we are in disagreement.
* Be careful in defining terms, avoiding needless use of inflammatory words.
* Be careful in the use of generalizations; where appropriate offer specific evidence.
* Seek to understand the experiences out of which others have arrived at their views. Hear the stories of others, as we share our own.
* Exercise care that expressions of personal offense at the differing opinion of others not be used as means of inhibiting dialogue.
* Be a patient listener before formulating responses.
* Be open to change in your own position and patient with the process of change in the thinking and behavior of others.
* Make use of facilitators and mediators where communication can be served by it.
* Always remember that people are defined, ultimately, by their relationship with God and not by the flaws we discover or think we discover in their views and actions.

These guidelines may be reproduced along with an acknowledgement that they are from the Office of GCCUIC, along with contact information. The General Commission on Christian Unity and Interreligious Concerns (GCCUIC), 475 Riverside Dr., Rm. 1300 **, New York, NY 10115, USA, 212.749.3553, 212.662.7045. ** Building Entrance: 62 Claremont (The Interchurch Center at SW corner of 120th and Claremont), email using form at http://www.gccuic-umc.org/index.php?option=com_contact&...d=242

Why and Stuart.

Wed May 21, 2008 23:34

Why-----A very good question about the insurers, and it is a very big mystery.

Stuart. ---- Interesting guidelines. Would you like to expand on your deliberation that the Irish Redress Board is biased in favour of the accused.

*Perceptions* of bias

Thu May 22, 2008 10:01

It is pointless to misrepresent my statement as a "deliberation that the Irish Redress Board is biased in favour of the accused" because I did not express that belief. My statement was that it is "an organisation widely perceived (rightly or wrongly) as established by, and biased in favour of, the accused".

This perception arises because the board was established in a deal between the government and the church, without equal representation of victims. This perception is strengthened by the circumstances in which the church had already invalidated its insurance and transferred the burden to the state in a very opaque deal signed on the last night of an outgoing government. The church absolved itself of some 1.4 billion in liabilities for just 160 million in assets, still unpaid. The board, however, is composed of professionals independent of its establishment. Pat Leahy provided a more balanced account than mine in the Sunday Business Post (June 2004): http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/06/06/story786...4.asp

I have no evidence for believing that the board has any bias in the cases that come before it. I do believe that the exclusion of cases involving deceased, elderly and frail accused is unjust. So is the exclusion of cases involving vulnerable and mentally handicapped adults. I do believe that some respondent orders (notably the Christian Brothers) have resorted to unwarranted levels of legal confrontation, failure of documentary discovery and intimidation of claimants.

Bias misrepresentations.

Wed May 28, 2008 23:08

Stuart, perhaps I should seek the services of a suitable barrister to help me make airtight replies to your deliberations ! However, I believe that you are making sound and practical judgment . I appreciate your advice, time and attention. The battle goes on.

Barristers etc

Thu May 29, 2008 22:59

Given the situation you have outlined I think that pursuing a personal legal case of any kind would only do you harm at this point - it would presumably rely either on a criminal charge of perjury against the accusers, or a civil case for personal injury, loss of reputation and loss of good name (think some 200,000 euro per day in legal fees, paid by the loser). I have no legal training, but you could get free advice from the Citizens Information Board (http://www.citizensinformationboard.ie/) or a free legal aid centre, or pay for advice from a solicitor. Defamation cases have a nasty way of tarnishing everyone involved in them.

There is also the issue of the perspective of the accusers to consider, which may range from genuine mistaken belief in their claims through embroidery of a personal grievance to, as you claim, purely malicious falsehood. The truth you are seeking must encompass the possibility that these witnesses are the victims of abuse, albeit not the abuse you are accused of. I don't know you or them, and intend no hurt in saying that every outcome of the RIRB is strengthened by justice in all outcomes. Malicious falsehoods should be exposed, whilst respecting the dignity of victims who have in good faith made errors in their testimony.

If I was to seek justice for people falsely accused by the RIRB I would do it through the RIRB or those who established it. Without knowing him other than by reputation, I would suggest that Archbishop Diarmuid Martin should establish a non-partisan and non-confrontational review process to hear claims of false accusations along the lines of the Criminal Cases Review Commission in the UK (http://www.ccrc.gov.uk/).

RTE1 at 10:50pm

by RTE

Tue Jun 17, 2008 09:25

RTE1 at 10:50pm, Tuesday June 17 - Science Friction: Liz Bonnin takes a scientific look at one of society's most taboo subjects, paedophilia.

The self-incriminating falsely accused

by Fascinated

Mon Jun 30, 2008 13:36

A fascinating article on "Wrongly Accused Syndrome - Disordered Thinking (WAS-DT) by Kenneth R. Pangborn (a US-based "Trial Consultant" with a degree in Child Development and Masters in Child Psychology) describes a difficult and narcissistic, unlistening pattern of behaviour amongst people who become the victims of false accusations. Get beyond the insult of being labelled abnormal because "normal people don’t get accused of these things”, and the specific defects of "elevated scores for narcissism, histrionic personalities, immature individuals, conformist and rigid in their thinking, prescriptive and controlling religious beliefs" and this article is very interesting :-

- are there falsely accused people who are identifiable and have been targeted because of their character?
- how does one help a difficult, self-defeating and ungracious client group?
- what review process does the RIRB need to put in place to test whether such a group exists in its judgements?

"For more than a quarter century working with people wrongly accused of child abuse, rape, domestic violence and similar acts we have been able to identify certain common traits in the client base. ... These individuals also make problem clients. They are difficult to keep centered and they engage in self-defeating behaviors sometimes to the extreme they act out in ways that will sabotage their legal position. ... Many of these people make it hard to distinguish themselves from real offenders although they don’t realize that they are doing so. ... I must also note that these are often extremely difficult clients. Some people just will not be helped. These people tend to blame others for their problems, and in the end those working on their legal problems are no more immune from their wrath that everyone else in their lives."

http://www.a-team.org/wrongly_accused.html

Re: Why is it, etc.

by Marie-Therese O' Loughlin

Tue Jul 29, 2008 21:55

@ We the people.

"Why is it that People are not claiming against the insurance Companies, etc

There are 'people' who were purportedly sexually abused by clergy (secular, predominantly) and there are 'people' who were abused in every plausible fashion, (sexual, being only one kind of abuse) by religious of both genders' for generations in industrial schools.

With respect of the former, I cannot speak - as the survivors of clerical abuse come into a dissimilar category than those who spent their time in industrial schools. The former, customarily, I think, by the system was by it - not institutionalised, and allegedly by diocesan clergy, was (mostly) I think, abused whilst living in their own homes.

The latter cannot claim against the insurance companies of the religious - as an Indemnity Deal, some years ago was struck between the government /religious, which ultimately brought about the birth of the Residential Institutions Redress. Board. The religious got off scot-free, as it only paid into the kitty a sum of E28 000,000 and an extra small sum for counselling/education...

We spent our whole childhoods' locked up illegally in child prisons' and we slaved away morning, noon and night -and did not receive our equitable monetary rewards. So stuff the be-grudgers' who call us names and who try to shame us - we were already shamed by society in the past and we do not need any compounding of that abuse. Our whole childhoods' were from us stolen by a cruel system that prevailed. Moreover, the government and the religious are responsible for not educating us and for not seeing properly to our psychological/social familial needs, etc. "Why was it" that way for defenceless children - who had nodody to protect them at all. No amount of RIRB awards granted to them from the Irish government can replace what was from them stolen in their childhoods'.

The Truth Must Out

by The Knitter

Tue Aug 12, 2008 08:20

theknitter at gmail dot com

John Fitzgerald the "Freelance journalist" - (I am using the word "Freelance" advisedly as also the word "journalist"), unless and of course having a letter on the Letters Page of the Irish Independent or the Irish Times qualifies a person to call themselves a "journalist" !!

Anyway John YOU actually owe people, and YOU OWE THEM A HUGE AMOUNT if the truth be told - and, I THINK, that JOURNALISM must be ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS about the TRUTH.

If you know of any "FALSE" allegations regarding the TORTURE, ENSLAVEMENT, RAPE, BUGGERY, and STARVATION of children in INSTITUTIONS "managed" by roman catholic "religious" Orders YOU MUST TELL ALL.

- - - - - - -

I'm wondering is this the same 'John Fiztgerald(sic)' who wrote this about me:

"The "Knitter" is a notorious false accuser and compulsive, malicious and conniving liar. " and

" Edmund Rice [founder of the Irish christian brothers] would be in the forefront of efforts to redeem the image of the order he founded were he alive today. He would be the first to comfort and reassure the victims. The vile "knitter" and the "angry" lout are not fit to lick his boots!!! ???

I must say though that I have no quibble with the second quote because there is no power on this planet that would make me go down on my knees for a christian brother.

Andrew

Caption: Video Id: 6vzIGpcCGGc Type: Youtube Video
Embedded video Youtube Video

Gone Missing

Tue Oct 07, 2008 18:17

Where have all the supporters of the religious orders gone? These are the religious orders who facilitated CLERGY SEXUAL TERRORISTS in their ranks and facilitated these TERRORISTS in their CLERGY SEXUAL TERRORISM.

Where Are They Now ?

by Michael - Human League

Wed Oct 08, 2008 02:43

The Former Parish Priest Of Our Lady Queen Of Peace Church ,Bray Co. Wicklow ,
Has Gone On Leave From His Parishioners ,Citing , From The Pulpit , ILLNESS ,

Survivor still out in the cold

by Bernie O' Farrell 16

Wed Jul 21, 2010 03:05

I was a very young child with 4 brothers and sisters we lived a happy home life until we lost our Mother RIP our Father like many irishmen having just left the army and fought in WW2 had to leave Ireland to find work in order to send money home to look after his young family all under 7 years of age the youngst only 6 months old ,we had many Aunts and Uncles + cousins our Aunts and Grandmother was looking after us well but the priest thought better he brought the Cruelty Man who called the Garda to our house and they Took myself and siblings to the criminal court where each one of us was charged and sentenced to detention into different Reformatorys in different parts of ireland until we each reached 16 , we were not allowed any contact with each other , The Industrial reformatory I was detained in was Brutal I was so numb with fear 24 hours a day from brutal beatings , starvation, domestic hard labour that I blanked out everything and everyone from my past before i was detained ,I was so Traumatised I blocked out even that I was Irish and my Sibling's , Its now 2010 and I still don't know my siblings' nor family after 40 years out of Ireland I returned with company as I was so frightened of returning I was sick on the ferry and had to be helped off I was terrified that some Garda or Nuns or Priests would get me and lock me up ,I was that effected still, I tried to get help in finding my siblings , or finding Family ,or anyone who knew me ,The first thing happened we drove into a garage where I was called a Plastic paddy,I recieved no help from anyone noone wanted to know not the so called services for survivors they said because I lived outside ireland I would have to go back, I did leave and since then I have lived daily with all the nightmares of my Brutal childhood I became depressed ,lonley as I realised for the first time That was my own country that is where my roots and my Soul, my whole family history was , I am still cut off from Family, Siblings ,Roots,I am now again Nobody floating alone in life and to frightened to go back to Ireland , as for Mary Coughlan deciding that the government will keep our rightful compansation and keep it into a government Trust Fund where we real survivors will never benifit or see any of it I don't want councelling ,I believe it can do more harm than good in my case to open bad memories for an hour and go home alone with my mind full of the past ,+ anyonne can get councelling free from our doctors,as for education (there are free courses if wanted) they should have giving us that as children ,most survivors are above 60 No To The Government Trust Fund It's only the government bodies solicitors and so called group leaders want the education Trust so that they keep getting their large funding for themselves ,Their Families and friends to keep themselves in a highly paid job's and dont give a fart about survivors. I have witnessed it. as for the redress board why was that set up before the Ryan Report came out ??survivors were thrown the crumbs and frightened into silence which left most even more traumstised, upset and left to relive the Nightmares , I have not used any services and don't intend to after the bullying I recieved on my visit. Marie Therese O'Loughlin you are right.

The Past is Still within some of us .

by Sceptic - None whatsoever .

Sun Jul 25, 2010 20:02

So very sad to read your heartbreaking account of life with the Lions and your continuing
grief stricken account which has seemingly never left your mind , i have also read some
articles by Marie Therese o'Loughlin on such websites as www.crookedlawyers.com ,
and Marie Threses's comments are very interesting as she publishes on their forum .

Have you been in contact with such organisations as 1 in 4 who are very helpful in times
like these .?

It is indeed a difficult subject to approach , people tend to sympathise of course , you say
in relation to councelling that you dont wish to open up and be left walking home with your
past haunting you , the damage that those people have done to children alike will haunt
this country & its history books for centuries to come .

I can only wish you well my friend , let us hope you find peace, some day .

My reply to Bernie.

by Setanta - Rate Your Solicitor

Sat Oct 01, 2011 21:30

To Bernie. Name all the people who brutalized you.They knew what they were doing when they hurt you so badly. Name the Social Workers and their managers who referred you to the courts and the The Judge who committed you, and all those people who abused you and gave you such a miserable life. Name the Gardai ( Irish Police force) that you feared. Do not be afraid to tell the truth.What you do now I hope will bring justice for you, and may help to save their souls from eternal damnation. Regards, Setanta.

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