Lisbon: Defend Democracy, Public Services and Neutrality

by t.rex Thu May 22, 2008 14:36

Why is Kieran Allen of the SWP chairing this meeting? - he's had absolutely no involvement with the Campaign against the EU Constitution. In fact I doubt if he's even genuinely supportive. For that matter the same could be said of Mary Lou McDonald. Allen and McDonald only turn up when there's something in it for them - some profile raising.

by Go Figure? Thu May 22, 2008 14:55

it's hard not to see a lot of this activity as primarily profile raising, setting up brand recognition for the next election...SF/Mary Lou, RBB/PbP. Even WSM stuff is basically using the setting of mass media context to deliver a brand marketing exercise. How much this was the attitude with the context of the war in 03 would be interesting to reflect on.

Contrast this with the trial of 9 anti-war direct actionists risking years in jail at them moment ibefore the courts Belfast at the moment (3 members of the SWP) and the minimal awareness raising around their case and the Raytheon/Irish arms trade issue the issue they have raised with their action. SWP are well placed (running the Stop the War Coalition in Brtiain/the IAWM in Ireland to have mobilised support for these people, they seemed to have chosen not to. WSM did run an article in their newsletter but did not include the Raytheon 9 website for interested readers to access if they wanted to offer further support.. So much left activity seems to be obsessed with marketing priorities product placement, brand recognition etc, Vey little substance....solidairty etc.

by Chekov Fri May 23, 2008 17:54

"Even WSM stuff is basically using the setting of mass media context to deliver a brand marketing exercise."

That's not really true. The WSM is basically using the setting of mass media context as a vehicle to get across their ideas. If you look at the material that we have produced, it is jam-packed full of explanations of the basic anarchist critique of the state and capitalism.

We don't believe that a No vote, by itself, would amount to any advance for Irish workers and there are all sorts of ways in which it could turn out to be a step-back from our point of view. For example, if the vote was interpreted as being driven by nationalist, catholic or neo-con inspired arguments, the government could buy them off with a protocol ensuring that abortion could not be introduced or something similar and rerun the poll in a format that is worse than the current one, while being more likely to succeed.

Therefore, we're not particularly interested in maximising the No vote, we want people to vote no for particular reasons and not for other reasons. Most groups are actually doing more or less the same - using the poll to increase their profile and argue their ideas, we're just honest about it.

Incidentally, we have done a fair bit of stuff for the Raytheon 9, both within AWI and as the WSM. Including donating money, selling pamphlets and running articles. The criticism of us on this score is unfair. There is a limit to how much we can do and we do lots of other stuff too.

by gaybo Fri May 23, 2008 18:14

Do you really think that Mary Lou needs her profile raising? She is probably one of the most recognised people in the country.

She is certainly one of the few people who is habitually referred to in the media without the need for her family name (not always such a good thing, as Royston will tell you).

Her involvement in the campaign for a No vote to Lisbon is more likely to raise the profile of the campaign, rather than the other way around.

by Chekov Fri May 23, 2008 18:42

All politicians need to keep themselves in the public eye as much as possible. People who are far more famous than Mary-Lou, such as Bertie, put their faces on our lamposts all the time, because it helps their profile, which helps their votes. Or are we to believe that Mary Lou won't be putting up posters of herself in the next election?

by gaybo Fri May 23, 2008 19:04

That's not what was said.

Being involved in the Lisbon campaign is obviously not going to raise ML's profile, but rather the reverse. If you don't agree with that statement then construct an argument to explain why.

You might as well say that Brian Cowen got involved in the Lisbon debate to raise his profile, because he will put up posters with his face on them in the next election. It's idiotic.

by Chekov Fri May 23, 2008 20:23

"Being involved in the Lisbon campaign is obviously not going to raise ML's profile, but rather the reverse."

Having her face on lamposts all over Dublin during the referendum isn't going to raise her profile? Bonkers.

by James Fri May 23, 2008 20:36

WSM did run an article in their newsletter but did not include the Raytheon 9 website for interested readers to access if they wanted to offer further support.

Except of course the WSM did include contact details, including both the email and website address of the Raytheon 9. See http://www.wsm.ie/news_viewer/3850. In fact, there's even a line that encourages the offering of further support and specifies the email address to sent those to.

by gaybo Sat May 24, 2008 00:11

Do you really think Enda Kenny is on the Yes side's posters to raise his profile? That would be, as you so eloquently put it, bonkers.

He is on the posters to use his already high profile to encourage a Yes vote. Same with Joe Higgins and Mary Lou for the No side.

Maybe it's hard for you to get your head around this concept, but that might have more to do with your preconceptions about politicians than actually thinking about it.

by MichaelY - CAEUC/iawm Sat May 24, 2008 09:03

Good friends,

Both on the Lisbon and Raytheon issues, a whole (and growing) number of people are working very hard to try to promote a NO vote in the June 12th Referendum [in which if the YES side wins, and contrary to what Chekov believes, it would have a very detrimental effect on workers lives and our health + education systems not to be talking about the further militarisation of our society] as well as support our comrades of Raytheon in their anti-war stance.

The iawm's conference today in the Royal Dublin Hotel [11.00 - 5.30] with a whole set of guests from abroad, the Dublin bus going to Belfast on Tuesday morning next to support the Raytheon comrades and next Thursday's Dublin Central meeting of the CAEUC are all designed with those specific political objectives in mind.

"Profile raising" or not, preparing for next year's local elections or not, a number of organisations and individuals have been pulling together for a NO position. There are less than three weeks left - lets leave it at that for the moment. Sniping from around the corner methinks only hurts the snipers - no more no less.

And as the last messager said, though with a rather opposite position in mind, it is sometimes useful for people to see beyond their prejudices and focus on the issues ahead of us.

by Mother of Ten Sat May 24, 2008 11:38

I, for one, am wholeheartedly outraged that the Socialist Workers Party don't have a platform speaker at this event. They are thoroughly good people, and it's just not fair that they are having to play second fiddle to these People Before Profit characters. Just who do they think they are?

by Jack Hackett - Craggy Island Continuity Reprobrate Army Sat May 24, 2008 14:30

If the Commies and the Fash are both so against it, it must be a good thing. I'm voting YES.

by MichaelY - CAEUC Sun May 25, 2008 11:48

The latest Red C - Sunday Business Post poll shows the number of NO voters up by five points to 33%. !!
The number of undecideds is still very high at 26%.

More and more friends from all over the country as well as Europe are coming through with support, political encouragement and some financial help.

The Campaign Against the EU Constitution (CAEUC) - Vote No to Lisbon now operates an office in the UNITE building 55-56 Middle Abbey Street, 5 days a week from 10.00 - 16.00 hours.
Landline: 01 8727912 Mobile 086 1787925

Website: www.sayno.ie

We have a great fighting chance to defeat the YES cabal - we need you help. Contact us.

by MichaelY - CAEUC Sun May 25, 2008 14:03

A big well done to somrades of the IPSC and their work

Outside the Israeli Embassy

On the way to Dublin Airport

by Sabine K McNeill - Forum for Stable Currencies Sun May 25, 2008 19:26 sabine at 3dmetrics dot co dot uk

Don't you find it ironic that engaged citizens have to ask their Irish friends to vote on their behalf because we "on the continent" have not had that chance?

We never had a referendum on the Euro and I've seen its devastating effects not only in Germany but, above all, in the former DDR.

Just consider the differences: between "economic non-democracy" imposed by non-accountable banks and central banks and "political democracy" through voting for politicians and parties who are all paid with that money that banks control with opening and closing their credit tap...

Sighingly yours,

Sabine

Organiser, Forum for Stable Currencies, House of Lords
http://www.forumforstablecurrencies.org.uk

Blogger, In the Spirit of the Forum for Stable Currencies
http://forumnews.wordpress.com

by NingúnOtro - Me (and NobodyElse, which is NingúnOtro translated ;) ) Mon May 26, 2008 11:41 ningunotro at hotmail dot com

The last polls are spitting "numbers" the YES side is trying to interprete in their favour...

... don't let them get away with it!

Last poll for instance shows:

41% YES
33% NO
26% UNDECIDED.

While this could be interpreted (and is being interpreted: http://bruxelles.blogs.liberation.fr/coulisses/2008/05/....html ) as something positive for the YES, and used as PROPAGANDA...

... reality shows that those numbers say UNDECIDED is down 8% since the last poll, and that 3/8 of this change goes to support for the yes,... BUT, despite trailing behind... 5/8 of this change GOES TO SUPPORT FOR THE NO!

If we extrapolate the 3/8-5/8 tendency linearly to the rest of 26% UNDECIDED... we get the following results:

50,75 % YES
49,25 % NO

Not a bad perspective at all, considering we have still 18 days of campaign to go where the YES side has already exhausted the BIG ARTILLERY, and the NO side still has to field yet most of its GRASSROOTS PARTISAN RESISTANCE.

Interpreting the polls shows... poll workers are being spotted as increasingly annoying people, sold out to the BIG MONEY that funds them, and while most of those UNDECIDED that are to support the YES finally are coming out of their closets (and with that only make 3/8 of the change!)... the UNDECIDED that finally will support the NO tends NOT TO SAY what they will finally vote because they experience those poll workers as "sold out to the enemy".

Therefor, the tendency I worked out as linear above... is hardly believable to be linear at all!

We are on the winning side, just as the french and dutch people were in 2005, because anywhere, anytime, PEOPLE instinctively KNOWS WHAT IT DOES NOT WANT.

Anyway, don't take anything for granted, because GOEBBELS is only an apprentice propagandist compared to the european BUREAUCRACY.

Keep up the good work putting every imaginable stick in their wheels before the end line.

by Stu - No To Lisbon Mon May 26, 2008 21:44

The Airport one is already flat on its back ! Presumably the wind took it down... passed it yesterday
on the bus. Even the wind is against us!

NO TO LISBON

There's a very good Anti Lisbon Myspace page at

www.myspace.com/europeancorruption

by Lat Sun Jun 01, 2008 18:39

End of Nations - EU Takeover - the Lisbon Treaty

torrent
http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4070098/End_of_Nations...rrent