Israel is waging war on population of Gaza

by Observer Fri Jan 02, 2009 09:00

Try and engage in some meaningful discussion rather than hysterical rants. "Capitalist driven.." blah de blah. Shows you how little you know about the states and regimes and corrupt 'Marxists' and other leftists involved in the rape of the Congo.

And of course you refuse totally to recognise that you are on the same side as Hamas which has wiped out the Palestinian left in its torture chambers and purges. Can you imagine what they would do to the likes of you if they had the chance?

by Daithi Wed Dec 31, 2008 20:46

Look no farther than the contribution of "Observor"

How many protests have you organised/attended about the capitalist-driven African civil wars then eh?

And you can shove your mealy-mouthed "I'm sorry buts" and twisted comparison between the fascist bahaviour of Israel and some "flawed democracy" -the stench of your hypocrisy is rank.

by Observer Wed Dec 31, 2008 09:17

People who claim to be morally outraged cannot qualify it by semantics about whether the state might take a similar view of, for example, the 5/6 million slaughtered in the Congo for mobile phone components and diamonds (any peep from the IAWM/SWP/Shinners etc on that???), Sudan, Zimbabwe etc, etc.

But even confining ourselves to Palestine. When Hamas slaughtered hundreds (at least 600) of its opponents including local leftists there was not so much as a whimper from the left here or in other European countries. If it's hyprocisy you are looking for ....

As for what is happening at the moment, no-one could justify the deaths of any children but I am afraid if it comes to a choice between a flawed democratic open society and Hamas (and its backers in the local totalitarian states) then there is no choice. Just as there was none when flawed democracy confronted totalitarianism and barbarism in the 1930s, 40s and 50s.

by francis hughes Tue Dec 30, 2008 22:40

it suits 'western democratic civilised' countries to back Islamic or any other religious extremists when its in their economic interests to do so, im not gonna even start naming them. Your eurocentric view is dangerous, it almost harks back to the adage of the colonialists , lets civilise them natives, them savages etc. This isnt an issue of left and right, its human rights and anti war. Nice to see what Moshe thinks of debating with us there, to hell with us he says. Ah religion

by LP Tue Dec 30, 2008 19:20

You're missing my point. It's easy to protest against official enemies. You're not going to invite attention from the police, there's a whole range of ways the government have of encouraging some protest movements and discouraging others. That's hardly mind-boggling. I'm not saying that these issues should be ignored, simply pointing out it is both hypocritical and cowardly to emphasise them at the expense of crimes committed by the local Don. The US isn't all that's happening in the world, but it is by far the worst terrorist state in history. By the way, do the Irish right protest on the issues you raise?

by Mr Man Tue Dec 30, 2008 16:18

Observer hits the nail on the head. God forbid the Irish left protest anything that has nothing to do with America or Israel

"those in power here have nothing to fear from these protests and may even encourage them"
OH NO! Its mind boggling to think that the government may actually support you in your protest! What a world we live in.......

"To take the emphasis away from the abuses of the world emperor in order to concentrate on easier targets is both hypocritical and cowardly."
To ignore tragedies around the world just because they are too black and white and 'easy' to protest is just stupid. I'm mot saying America doesn't have a lot of things to answer for but its not all thats happening in the world.

by LP Tue Dec 30, 2008 15:53

"Western civilisation'"s favourite Arab regime is Saudi Arabia, a kingdom that is centuries behind even Iran when it comes to democracy, press freedom and especially women's rights. If these things are so important to "Western civilisation", why does it promote and maintain (often in the teeth of bitter popular (read democratic) opposition) governments who are a byword for torture, repression and medievalism? We live in Ireland, which is in the US' sphere of influence. Protesting against China, Sudan and Zimbabwe in Ireland is all well and good, but it's like shooting fish in a barrel (i.e. those in power here have nothing to fear from these protests and may even encourage them) and not much more useful. The decision of our government to facilitate the US war machine (by which I include Israel) is and should remain the focus of our protests. It doesn't facilitate any other war machine so openly. To take the emphasis away from the abuses of the world emperor in order to concentrate on easier targets is both hypocritical and cowardly.

by Observer Tue Dec 30, 2008 08:23

You are on the side of western civilisation which means democracy, a free press, dissent, civil society, equal rights for women OR you are on the side of medievalism.

The world is a nasty place but those protesting are very choosy over what they protest about. Don't ever recall the Dublin left organising protests about Zimbabwe, Sudan, China, North Korea etc, etc.

by Baooka Joe Tue Dec 30, 2008 00:34

Saudi cleric Sheik Awadh al-Garni has issued a fatwa urging Muslims to target Israeli interests everywhere, to avenge the attacks on Gaza.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050626.html

Archbishop Tutu says Israeli attack bears hallmarks of War Crime.
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/...quot_

Thousands attend protests against Israel in Europe
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050658.html

"Anti-Semitic" - A Zionist misperception
http://www.holylandalternatives.net/palestinians.html

by Ehud Mon Dec 29, 2008 22:04

Moshe is just showing the weakness of his own arguments by stooping to falsely accusing people of anti-semitism. Opposition to Israels murder machine and terrorism is not in any way anti-semitic despite what Moshe tries to portray

by LP Mon Dec 29, 2008 21:14

"Hamas seek to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews."

By its violence, Israel daily diminishes its so-called "right to exist", a right claimed by no other state. I don't for a minute believe Hamas would have any interest in killing Jews if Jewish violence and oppression ended.

"Israel does not have an empire.
Israel is not interested in an empire."

Israel establishes and expands its (exclusively Jewish) colonies at a ferocious rate. It treats the inhabitants of the ghettos it controls exactly like subject colonies of the old empires.

"Jersusalem is not even part of Israel but is an Arab city."

Jerusalem becomes less of an Arab city every day, thanks to an aggressive policy of colony construction and expansion in carefully selected areas, designed to cut off the Palestinian section of Jerusalem from its natural hinterland. Many in Israel's (and the US') establishment are adamant that Jerusalem be the future capital of Israel, in direct defiance of UN Security Council Resolution 271 and UN General Assembly Resolution 303.

"Israel occupied Gaza and occupied the West Bank and the Golan heights because Egypt, Syria and Jordan used those territories to attack Israel."

So Egypt, Syria and Jordan have a right to occupy Israel because its territory has been used to attack them? Can't you see the hypocrisy of that statement?

"It has occupied them because the Palestinians seek ever opportunity to attack Israel."

For years there was hardly any violence, yet the occupation has continued for decades.

"Israelis have tried to make peace with Arabs for decades, to negotiate the borders of Israel and end hostilities."

For almost 40 years Israel has done the exact opposite, ever since Kissinger's "stalemate policy" became US policy.

"The Arabs have refused to make peace, they have refused to recognise the State of Israel and they have tried again and again to push the Jews into the sea."

Nonsense.

"Yet again Hamas attacks Israel, attacks innocent Israeli civilians and seeks to destroy Israel."

Yeah, their Qassam rockets have killed 18 people in the last 8 years. IDF rockets have killed over 300 in the last two days.

"Israel has every right to defend itself."

That's some defence. If an Arab kills one Jew, Jews kill 20, 30, 40 Arabs?

"RSF of course do not recognise the right of Protestants in Northern Ireland to exist either even though they are the majority."

Absolute nonsense. You're well out of your depth here, Moshe. Do you support the right of Ulster Catholics to have a homeland they can call their own? If not, does that make you anti-Catholic?

by Moshe Mon Dec 29, 2008 20:04

Hamas seek to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.
Israel does not have an empire.
Israel is not interested in an empire.
Jersusalem is not even part of Israel but is an Arab city.
Israel occupied Gaza and occupied the West Bank and the Golan heights because Egypt, Syria and Jordan used those territories to attack Israel.
It has occupied them because the Palestinians seek ever opportunity to attack Israel.
The pre-1967 borders of Israel are merely the armistice lines of 1948.
Israelis have tried to make peace with Arabs for decades, to negotiate the borders of Israel and end hostilities.
The Arabs have refused to make peace, they have refused to recognise the State of Israel and they have tried again and again to push the Jews into the sea.
Yet again Hamas attacks Israel, attacks innocent Israeli civilians and seeks to destroy Israel.
Israel has every right to defend itself.
War with the Arabs can end tomorrow if they stop attacking Israel.

RSF have no business supporting Hamas.
RSF of course do not recognise the right of Protestants in Northern Ireland to exist either even though they are the majority.
Sinn Fein and the IRA have finally accepted that.
The Republic of Ireland accept that too.
Just like Hamas want to destroy Israel, RSF are unable to accept reality.

To hell with you both.

by francis hughes Mon Dec 29, 2008 19:20

Moshe, Im not a member of RSF but i dont think in any of their material I read that they wanted a catholic nationalist police state. plus Dont pick and chose the Irish revolutionary heroes you name drop, people wanting the reunification of this country and the creation of a more socialist style society today are just as entitled to strive for it, as the people you mentioned earlier from our past. I do not know any republican in any republican group that have a hatred towards Jewish people, or any religion. I do know many that have criticisms of Israeli state aggression. I personally dont get too bogged down in it, as I am not a big fan of Islamic extremism aswell as zionist extremism. Anyway, u are entitled to your view but dont try to muddy the waters , and dont try to revise irish history to suit your israeli imperialistic viewpoint please. xxxx

by LP Mon Dec 29, 2008 16:54

US Jewish organisations, such as the Anti-Defamation League, have no problem with anti-Semites in organisations such as the World League for Freedom and Democracy, because these people's anti-Semitism (many are ex-Nazis) is "old-fashioned", i.e. it is just anti-Jewish bigotry, not anti-Zionism. Therefore, their support for Israel's policies excuses their bigotry. This is a measure of the corruption of both the Zionist ideal and the millenia-old fight against anti-Semitism. I wouldn't call either Pearse, Collins or de Valera the most democratic men in the history of Irish republicanism. But like Hamas, they recognised terrorism when they saw it and fought it with all the weapons at their disposal. In Hamas' case, pitifully few. I hope Ireland's flying columns continue to inspire those who fight against colonialism for a long time to come.

by Moshe Mon Dec 29, 2008 16:06

Republican Sinn Fein, an explicitly fascist organisation that refuses to accept the overwhelming democratic vote in favour of the Good Friday Agreement and refuses to accept both the democratic mandate of the Northern Ireland assembly or indeed of Dail Eireann in the Irish Republic, remains committed to terrorism to achieve its aims of a single party Irish Catholic national socialist police state.

These breed of delusional extremist republicans supported Nazism and turned a blind eye to the explicit anti-Semtism of German nationalism during World War 2.

Today Republican Sinn Fein supports Hamas, an organisation that is explicitly anti-semitic and committed to the goal of the destruction of Israel and its people.

Linking the proud Irish democratic republicanism of Pearse, Collins and De Valera with the terrorism of Hamas is deeply shameful and heinously insulting to all Irish people and to Israelis who took inspiration during their struggle against British rule from the example of the flying columns during the Irish War of Independence.