Ice Skaters on the Lough put in Mortal Danger

by Conor Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:13

What the hell is wrong with the Gardaí involved? How could this have heppended?

by Hilary Quinn Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:26

I know Conor, I'm still shocked myself over it, and I had words with both the JCB driver and the Guard in the photo to which they responded: They shouldn't be out there in the first place.

I probably will call to the Garda station tomorrow to report it to the Garda ombudsman..

by Lough resident Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:26

The gardai should have warned the young people to get off the ice but they weren't in danger. The lough isn't deep, you can walk across it, it is only a few feet deep in most parts. All they were in danger of was getting wet and very cold.

by timmy Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:57

Typical stuff from the gardai,none of this will come as a surprise to people living in or around the lough
area,the gardai are now seen as scum by most people in cork given their behaviour on a wide number of matters
it wasnt long ago that a russian man was found dead in garda custody in togher garda station only down the road
was he murdered,was there ever an investigation???? its very hard to challenge the gardai's actions,even with a garda
ombudsman,given that the gardai like fianna fail,is a family business,typical stuff once again.

by Damien Mon Jan 11, 2010 17:27

"The lough isn't deep, you can walk across it, it is only a few feet deep in most parts. All they were in danger of was getting wet and very cold. "

Thanks for the reassurance, and you're an expert in all things sub-aqua? Tell me then how someone is able to walk through 3-4 feet of ice cold water? Is it magic water in that there Lough?

by Conor. M Mon Jan 11, 2010 18:11

Instead of the RTEnews showing someone smashing their skull on the pavement, maybe they could have shown something like this. The image of the guy crawling across the ladder would have made a good picture for the news.

- Gardaí are warning people of the danger of ice, in other news, the Gardaí trap people trying to have a bit of craic... -

by PiggyBank Tue Jan 12, 2010 07:05

I wonder who is being paid to drive around pointlessly poking holes in frozen pond ice with their expensive to rent and otherwise idle construction related plant and machinery? anybody's relatives I wonder?

by john Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:41

It's all a bit confused. In the Echo and the Examiner one day over the freeze there was one article about two guys who fell through ice in the Lough and had to be rescued. the article finished with a warning to the public not to go out on the ice. In the same papers on the same day there was also a photo of a guy ice-skating at Gougane Barra where the tone of the photo was like "what a great thing to be doing."
Ah well, anyone who relies on the corporate media for their worldview is in trouble anyway.

by Lough Resident Tue Jan 12, 2010 15:28

Damien you sarcastically question whether I am a sub aqua expert. No Damien, but you don't need to be an expert to know that it would be extremely difficult for teenagers to die in 3 - 4 foot of cold water when they only have to walk a few yards to the path. The water would have been cold not freezing - frozen water is called ice!
The gardai should have got the young people off the ice before they broke it up with the JCB but some people's reaction here is way over the top, melodrama at the Lough!

by Damien Tue Jan 12, 2010 16:56

So it would be difficult for someone who is 5 ft to drown in 4ft of water? Not really.
And you should check up on your grammar. Frozen water is called ice. Freezing water can be called anything it wants, as it hasn't actually frozen yet, but is in the process of 'freezing'. But its a safe to bet to assume it would be more than just 'cold'.
And anyone, submerged in water of 2 degrees, will be in control of their faculties for all of 30 seconds before their nervous system goes haywire and they cant do basic stuff like smash ice, straighten their hair and wave to their friends etc

by Lough Resident Tue Jan 12, 2010 18:30

Damien you are talking rubbish. Have you ever been to the Lough? Have you ever been to Cork? The young people on the ice were not 5 feet tall. The Lough for the most part is a big pond, you fall in you get a little wet and you wade out. The Lough is not the North Atlantic. your nervous system would not be affected as you say. This story is a lot of fuss about nothing. There is no way that peoples lives were at risk this is scaremongering and it is childish. There is no water again on the Northside, parts of the city are flooded again, these are real issues affecting peoples lives not this dreamt up "almost tragedy" that was never going to happen.

by timmy Tue Jan 12, 2010 19:25

so lough resident,this is a fuss about nothing,then what the fuck are the guards doing out there in the first place
no. 1. spoiling peoples fun
and no.2. putting people in danger
why arent they out trying to rid cork city of its growing heroin problem???? its been said before,and it'll be said of the guards again-
useless bastards!!!!!!!!!

by Hilary Quinn Tue Jan 12, 2010 20:51

Thanks all for your comments..

To anyone expressing a view that the Lough is not dangerous or life-threatening, I'd like to point you to this article: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/dramatic-rescue-pr....html

"Third officer and river rescue expert Adrian Spillett said by the time his crew arrived, the teenager, who was dangerously close to becoming hypothermic, had been pulled from the lake. He was treated by HSE ambulance staff at the scene for shock. Mr Spillett said he was lucky to escape with his life."

There is an argument that the boys shouldn't have been out there in the first place, and I agree, they shouldn't have. But that does not give the Gardai and JCB driver the right to put their lives in danger knowingly. They should have been doing everything in their power to get these boys off the ice safely, and then punish them if needs be, instead they actually started breaking the ice with them out there, it's an absolute disgrace.

No medical personnel, no fire brigade, and 'let's break the ice and see what happens', was their attitude. They are absolutely haunted that one of the residents brought that sandbox, because without a doubt, one of the three remaining would have gone into the water if they had continued to use that ladder, and based on the expert's opinion above, it is life-endangering, and there was no ambulance, no fire brigade, no facilities, no nothing should the worst have happened. And it was more likely that the worst would happen since the ice was further weakened by the JCB before the boys got out.

by Conor Tue Jan 12, 2010 20:58

That story in the examaminer is not making your look too good.

by Hilary Quinn Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:16

I'll put it this way, the breaking of the ice was meant to prevent people from going onto it on the first place. It should never have been implemented with people standing on the ice, obviously!! If the intention was to prevent people falling in, they should have been warned and taken out first.

by Loughed Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:27

Would it be at all possible that the Guards DID ask the youths to get off the ice but they refused to do so?

by Hilary Quinn Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:31

No. Definately not. And with 50 + witnesses to the conversation and the event as it happened, the boys literally felt the ice crack, immediately skated to the edge, and with their arms outstretched to the Gardai they were saying why on earth didn't you tell us you were going to break the ice, we still have to get off.

I'm a witness to that conversation, and the event, and the Gardai DEFINITELY did not notify them they were about to break the ice. If they had done, the boys would have been off the ice before the JCB started, simple as that. And I hope those boys made a complaint and a statement to that effect.

by jayo Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:54

i have a feeling the gardai spoke to them beforehand but they ignored them, anyone out on ice like this is an asshole and disent deserve to be rescued

by Damien Tue Jan 12, 2010 22:08

True, and why would Gardaí in Cork, or anywhere for that matter, try and catch the city's drug dealers when its handier work to prop up gates, fences and JCBs

by Hilary Quinn Tue Jan 12, 2010 22:30

Hi Jayo, your feeling would be wrong. The facts are there.

Thanks all for your contributions!

by Lough Resident Wed Jan 13, 2010 09:29

Well Damien your anti-establishment attitudes don't extend as far as the millionaire owned bourgeois media! You believe that the Gardai instead of breaking the ice on the Lough should have been trying to catch some drug dealers. When the two people referred to in the Examiner story fell through the ice the Gardai, fire brigade and ambulance services all turned up in numbers to rescue them. The Examiner story you put so much store by claims that someone could have died. So in that context was it not better that a JCB was acquired and the ice smashed up in order to prevent the possibility of fatalities?
Should the Gardai give up all of their other duties and solely concentrate on going after drug dealers? Can you give us one example of any country in the world where the state has been able to seriously control or stop the "illegal" drug trade through policing methods?

by lulu Wed Jan 13, 2010 09:38

I wouldn't want to pre-judge what I didn't witness, but it'd not be the 1st time Gards have used a JCB to endanger the lives of citizens: cf 'Black Monday' at Pollatomish Pier, when Gards used a JCB as a battering-ram against a peaceful crowd who were defending the private property of a local family.

by Dr. Carrasco Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:59

How did the man driving the JCB not see the four of them skating on the Ice. It's not like blindness is an ailment commonly found in JCB digger drivers. Is it? I mean come on. It's like they're polar bears with paintball guns is it?

Although I do think that 'PiggyBank'' has touched on somethign here. Breaking ice is a sure way to be beat any recession and I'm sure there's loads of it arround at the minute (just not where its supposed to be; in the ARCTIC OCEAN). The government should be developing legislation for this kind of buisness enterprise.Or instead of a buisness opertunity this should deffinately be a considred a leisurable activity; destructive, yes, but at the same time therapeutic and highly usefull in sorting out the every day worries of the plain people of Ireland.

by Hilary Quinn Wed Jan 13, 2010 13:57

The JCB driver DID see them, and knew they were there. I told him there's no way he should be breaking the ice with people still standing on it, and his responce was they shouldn't be out there in the first place. The Gardai and the JCB driver knowingly broke the ice, with people standing on it. It was a malicious act, and there were mothers in the onlooking crowd saying as much to the Gardai, that there was no way they should touch the ice until those guys were off it first.

To the lough resident, yes, the JCB was brought in the break ice and protect the safety of the people, but NOT with people still standing on the ice, that is malicious, and it endangered lives rather than protecting them, which is what they were meant to be doing.

The Gardai and the JCB driver took the law into their own hands, and decided since the young men shouldnt have been on the ice in the first place, then they were entitled to break it without telling them, and without getting them back on land first.

by Peter Wed Jan 13, 2010 14:09 peteintheloop at gmail dot com

Hi,

I was the second skater to come off the ice.

The Gardai shouted at us once.. a simple "Hey!".... we hudled together and discussed what to do..
While this discussion was going on the jcb had come over and started to break the ice that we needed to come back.. we felt the ice crack and weaken all over the general area.. hence the race over to the Gardai and the following argument.

When we got back accross we had words with the Gardai who claim they told the council to wait until we were across until they started using the jcb to which the council ignored them.. I asked the head council fella about this and i recieved mumbling so i walked on.

There were no danger ice sign that day.. the ice was broken around the outside to stop people from going out onto it.. we found a narrow part and went out using the ladder.. we have plenty of expierience in ice and had appropriate gear with us such as a pick axe to check the thickness of the ice in various spots so that we could mark out a safe area to skate in. I had a 100ft rope in the unlikley event one of us fell in. I dont know how deep it is in the middle but have heard varying rumours from 4ft to 10ft.. bear in mind the bottom is all silt and muck.

None of us made a formal complaint as what we did is technically against the law.. we trespassed on a bird sanctuary, endangered us of the lives of others and its a public order offence of some sort too.. however i dont think any judge was going to prosicute us for such a harmless act with good intentions.

by Hilary Quinn Wed Jan 13, 2010 15:29

Hi Peter great to hear from you! I had a feeling you guys wouldn't make a complaint, I suppose what's really pissed me off is that the Gardai decided the punishment for whatever 'crime' you commited by being out there.. when in fact, they should have benn protecting your safety and then go through the correct legal channels to prosecute you if needs be..

Glad you guys got out safe in the end though, and you were very entertaining to watch before everything went pear-shaped!!

by tristan Wed Jan 13, 2010 15:37

Jeses christ, what the fuck were they doing breaking the ice with ye in the middle? they actually made ye walk across a that toothless ladder..am I actually paying my taxes to see my friends drown in the Loch? Cian, you should report this man, there regulators for that type of thing ..theres a call centre actually where I work, il get you the number, scum! Other than that-great laugh, pitty I didnt come!

by Lough Resident Wed Jan 13, 2010 15:38

Well Peter that was a very foolish thing to do. There was no warning sign but the ice had already been broken to prevent people going on to the Lough and you went out of your way to get a ladder to cross the broken ice!
This puts a very different slant on the whole affair. I am glad none of you were hurt but you obviously should not have crossed the broken ice irrespective of your claims of experience. Also the council workers breaking the ice with the JCB while you were on it is now not such a big deal as the ice was broken already and you had the ladder to go back the way you came.

by Damien Wed Jan 13, 2010 16:12

Skating on ice v antisocial behaviour? Glad these dastardly teens got their just desserts.

by Peter Thu Jan 14, 2010 05:35

@ Lough Resident..

I never claimed i was 100% right did I?..

Ya I got a ladder and crossed broken ice to go ice skating.. no bad intentions and far greater problems out there than the four of us i can assure u..

by Peeper Spray Sat Jan 16, 2010 21:17

Right across the board the gardai are abusing they're powers. I watched the other day as a detective tried to smash the side window of a jeep because the occupant was being "too slow" opening the window. I took my phone out and was texting a friend, when the detective with the baton, came over and aggressively told me he'd pepper spray me, before he grabbed my phone, i told him i was texting someone, but he thought i was filming him. They get really paranoid, and angry when they think they're being filmed. What else can any citizen do, is it illegal?

by Conor Sat Jan 16, 2010 22:48

No, its not illegal to record at all, but it is illegal to take a phone. The Gardaí don't have any real authority until you have broken a law, or they suspect you have broken a law, otherwise, your free to do as you wish.