Zionists Stage Nazi-Style Show Trial

by Pat B. Wed Aug 14, 2002 12:23

Pat from the bottom of my heart I say to you a big FUCK YOU

by pat c Wed Aug 14, 2002 13:14

you are a poor pathetic fool if this is all you can come up with. you haven't commented on the article or attempted to defend the actions of the zionist racists.

i am proud to be a member of Anti Fascist Action and to also oppose zionist racists.

by Paul O'Donnell Wed Aug 14, 2002 13:17

Zionism....Facism What's the difference???

Two sides of the same coin.

by pat c Wed Aug 14, 2002 13:41

not all zionists are fascists, indeed only a minority would be. a much larger % of zionists would be racist though.

there are zionists who though they obviously support the state of israel; want a withdrawal from the occupied territories.

by observer Wed Aug 14, 2002 14:31

Pat you were calling for death to all Zionists a few weeks ago.........

by pat c Wed Aug 14, 2002 15:18

yes i did. i also admitted this statement was over the top. after indulging in argument, i was overcome by the logic of daithi who pointed out the implications of what i was saying.

i posted the original comment in anger after hearing of the deaths of palestinian children caused through israeli bombing. my piece about censorship came after i'd heard that the bodies of two more children were pulled from the rubble.

the title of original statement was stupid & ill advised; it wasn't however racist. zionism is a political ideology to which both jews and gentiles are adherents. (many jews are not zionists; indeed a largenumber of ultra-orthodox jews abhor zionism.) any sort of an attack on a political ideology cannot be rationally described as racist.

by cynical observer Wed Aug 14, 2002 15:36

It's not racism. One of the arguments you kept presenting was that the is a difference between Judaism and Zionism, and therefore your comments weren't racist.

No one was saying that Zionism and Judaism were the same things, the argument put to you was that a call for genocide, be it for a religous sect, people who adhere to a political philosophy, or a social group or a race, is still a call for genocide. Which is what you were crying out for.

People understand the difference between Judaism and Zionism, and people were decrying your shouts for genocide of any group, even people of such disagreeable idealogy.

By the rational you're working under, the behaviour of the Nazi's againist the Jews, Gypys and mentally handicapped, is different to their treatment of communists, socialists, and trade unionists, when the final result was the same, death.

You cannot demand the slaughter of a group of people and then try to defend your words with claims that theres a difference between Zionism and Judaism, so it's okay.

I've found your reports of Palestine to be insanely biased, gleefully and cheering on death provided it's an act of a Palestinian "marytr". When someone asked how stabbing a couple as the lay in bed helps the Palestinian cause you respond with silence.

Your perception of the Israeli Palestinian conflict is hopeless naive, seeing "good" deaths and "bad" deaths. How anyone can defend terrorism , by Palestinians, which leads to innocent deaths, and decry "terrorism" from Israeli, which also leads to innocent deaths is beyond me.

Yes yes I can almost see your response now, the terrorism of the oppressed verus the terrorism of the oppressor. The fact is there are elements in both camps fundamentalists who don't want peace in any way shape or form, and these are the enemies. Religious fundamentalism and irrational understanding of the situation will only fuel the war and the suffering of innocents.

by pat c Wed Aug 14, 2002 15:51

cynical observor you are aptly named. you pseudo pacifists make me puke. you are long on verbiage but short on logic.

the palestinians have a right to defend themselves
and to fight back against those who illegally occupy their land. yes i hail the successes of the palestinian freedom fighters when they manage to kill armed zionist settlers. all adult settlers in the occupied territories are armed and are essentially part of a crypto fascist militia. they carry out regular armed attacks on unarmed palestinian civilians.

it is good to see these armed vultures being gunned down and blown up.

yes, you do effectively support the violence of the oppressor against the oppressed, if you say the oppressed do not have the right to fight back.

you have made no logical points to shift me on position re attacks on political ideologies not being racist.

Long Live The Palestinian Resistance!
Next Year in Al Quds!

by pat c Wed Aug 14, 2002 16:11

there was an error in the third last sentence of "aptly named".

it should have read:

you have made no logical points to shift me on my position re attacks on political ideologies being a call for genocide.

(look up genocide in a dictionary)

by Des Wed Aug 14, 2002 18:50

Marwan Barghouthi is certainly guilty of resisting the Zionist colonisation of Palestinian land. Given the appalling human rights record of successive Zionist regimes, we can be sure that he has been tortured in order to induce a "confession" of guilt. What especially disgusts me is that the Sharon regime is using nazi styles methods to achieve their goals, an insult to the memory of the millions of Jewish people murdered by the Nazis.

by PITA Thu Aug 15, 2002 13:04

Marwan Barghouti, the detained leader of Fatah's Tanzim militia in the West Bank and a firebrand leader of the Palestinian uprising, was charged yesterday in Tel Aviv District Court with murder, incitement to murder, attempted murder, conspiracy, membership of a terrorist organization, acting as an accessory to murder, and activity in a terrorist organization.

The indictment branded Barghouti an "arch terrorist whose hands are bloodied by dozens of terror actions."

Two of Barghouti's deputies, Nasr Aweis and Nasr Abu Hamid, also jailed by Israel, are to serve as witnesses for the prosecution against their former chief, as are a number of other Palestinian activists currently in Israeli custody.

The prosecution claims that Barghouti, who was subordinate to Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat, served as the head of the following terrorist organizations: Fatah, the Tanzim and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in the West Bank.

Barghouti's lawyer said at the start of proceedings that he would present arguments pertaining to the court's lack of authority to charge his ward. The State of Israel, he added, had committed acts in violation of international treaties.

Before Judge Zvi Gurfinkel entered the court, Barghouti took the opportunity to comment to the awaiting press. He called himself a freedom fighter and said that as long as Israel chose the military option, there could be no peace. He raised his handcuffed hands, and said in Hebrew: "The intifada will be victorious."

Continuing in English, he said, "I am a peaceful man. I was trying to do everything for peace between the two peoples. I believe the best solution is two states for two peoples."

He added that Israel's "policy of occupation will not lead to security. Security will only be achieved in one way, by peace, and peace will only be achieved by an end to the occupation."

As the short hearing neared its end, Barghouti, 43, turned to the judge and said that he had his own charge sheet against the State of Israel. But Gurfinkel cut him short, saying that the court was not a political stage and that Barghouti could voice his comments at the end of the proceedings.

The charge sheet says that since the start of what Palestinians term the "Al-Aqsa Intifada" in September 2000, the defendant led intensive terror operations against Israeli targets. It links Barghouti to senior terrorists, including Nasr Aweis, Nasr Abu Hamid, Ahmed Barghouti, Ra'ad Karmi and others.

The terrorist acts to which Barghouti is allegedly tied include suicide bombings and fatal shooting attacks that cost hundreds of Israeli civilians and soldiers their lives and wounded hundreds more.

The charges against Barghouti include that when he was informed that Ibrahim Hassuna was on his way to carry out the attack on the Sea Food Market restaurant in Tel Aviv in March, Barghouti approved the attack, but asked that it be carried out in the West Bank rather than inside Israel. A short time after the attack, around 3 A.M., Ahmed Barghouti allegedly informed the defendant that the attack had been carried out. The defendant is then said to have asked Nasr Aweis to confer with him before issuing a leaflet claiming

responsibility for the attack.

In addition, the indictment alleges that Barghouti was involved in training terrorists by helping to finance training for members of terror organizations. He is said to have raised a sum of $20,000 from Yasser Arafat that Nassr Abu Hamid passed on to him to pay for and organize the training.

Barghouti is also accused of interviewing the Palestinians before they were accepted into the terrorist organization and passing on requests for funds from the terror groups to the PA chairman, who then, allegedly, decided which requests to accept.

The court upheld the prosecution's request to detain Barghouti until the end of the legal proceedings against him. The prosecution pointed out that its evidence was not based only on the testimony of senior Palestinians commanders who served under the defendant, but also on Barghouti's comments during his interrogation and additional documents seized from his office during Operation Defense Shield.

by pat c Thu Aug 15, 2002 16:54

yes indeed former comrades have been tortured and then offered inducements to testify against their commander.

he was also tortured himself & statements he then made plus invented ones will be used against him.

by Des Thu Aug 15, 2002 21:22

I don't think it is being too far fetched to compare the "trial" of Marwan with the Nazis putting on trial the Warsaw ghetto fighters for resisting being transported to death camps.

The so called "trial" bears a striking resemblence to the methods of the south african racists (buddies of the zionists) in their "trials" of ANC members, in other words, a judical farce.