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Dublin - Event Notice
Friday April 22 2011
08:00 PM

Crucifixion Party At Seomra Spraoi

category dublin | rights, freedoms and repression | event notice author Sunday April 17, 2011 18:36author by Magdalene - Seomra Spraoi Report this post to the editors

Come and celebrate the death of Christ with us this Good Friday at Seomra Spraoi

Biblical theme dress-up with prizes for the best and worst costume

Live bands start at 8pm and ends at 10pm. The rest of the music will rock on till 1am.

Seomra Spraoi, 10 Belvedere Court, Dublin 1.

happy_easter_cartoon.jpg

live bands:

- Fag Enablerz

- "Special Guests" (debut performance)

+ Electronic acts and DJs TBA!

BYOB

All other info TBC

author by Atheistpublication date Mon Apr 18, 2011 06:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

and maybe have a muhammed lookalike party in seomra spraoi at ramadan? Lets be equally blasphemous here!
of course that won't happen will it? But maybe it should.

Isn't anybody worried about being fined? there is that stupid "law" after all.

Maximum fine 100,000 euro. Ridiculous.

Why not kill 2 birds with one stone and make it a blasphemy law protest gig? ;-)

author by chirstiana anarchistpublication date Mon Apr 18, 2011 08:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

adolescent anarchos doing the circle jerk in their cubby house

...seooma spraoi? when it's not a fire hazard it's a p.c. gentleman's club for the well heeled prejudicial crew slumming it in their yoof
...... a crew that mistake themselves as anarchists
...dublin anarchists? as much of a threat to the state as the theosophical society, dealing in eltitest hidden knowledge only accessible by the trly right on!

....keep slagging off the chistians dudes, they seem like a soft target?
....if you had the balls you'd express your similar prejudices against the Dublin Muslim community
...but S.S. crew has never been well endowed in that department
...ireland's anarchists remain a joke......conservative individualists with an eclusive ("Basques not Welome!") cubby house called Seaoma Sproai.......
.. where they can safely retreat into their subculture, their ever decreasing circle of certainty with their insecure mates who need to feel superior to the average punter (anatchism in ireland of course being a desperate attempy my mediocre people to distance themselves from the herd for reasons of inverted elitism
...keep happy with the circle jerk folks and leave it the chritsians to feed/ shelter the homeless and resist the state ....
have a nice day

author by Jerry Cornelius.publication date Mon Apr 18, 2011 14:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Oh ye of little faith! I;'m sure Seomra will do the prophet next.

Religion is not Race so there is no reason why the prophet shouldnt be mocked here along with the rest.

gods.jpg

author by Ciaron - Giuseppe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Tue Apr 19, 2011 06:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

These anarchists use to run a MONTHLY "God is A Pig" gig in Dublin, while THEIR GOVERNMENT was facilitating the slaughter of 1 million Muslims (and to a less number extent Christians) in Iraq. Of course, few of them had the balls to confront their government over this butchery..leaving the heavy lifting on that front to the Catholic Worker 5, the Quaker Dubsky and the (long demonised) Atlantis Community member Mary Kelly.

The war quickly lost is sex appeal for the Irish anarchist scene like their anglo cousins across the water, it has never been more than a scene..........
S.S looks like the remnant of that nearly exhausted phenomenon. Their attraction to "anarchism" was/is that the anarcho pose separates them from the herd, a cosy subculture to inhabit
.....witness this thread where they diss 1.2 billion Catholics and the comment that encourages them to go on to dis 1 billion Muslims.

They must have slept through Anarchism 101 when tolerance and pluralism are set out as basic to anarchist ethics and praxis.

I was in Camden yesterday and this gig seems like the poorer cousin of that... a living mausoleum to anarcho youth rebellion. Plenty of folks walking around in hippy and punk costumes, striking the poses and charging tourists for snap shots with "anarchists" but not the interested in the radical ideas that once sustained the sole rad bookshop that use to be on the Camden high street up to a few years ago.

I spent the afternoon with a former priest who has served 4 years in U.S. prisons for anti-war resistance, a former member of the British SAS gagged for speaking out against the war he was sent to Iraq, an Elvis impersonator and a former member of the U.S. Navy. All 5 of us are anarchists and have been for decades. 4 of us are christian anarchists and have spent decades working with the poor and in and out of jail for resisting the war making state. The 5th. was trained to kill for the state and has turned his back, is not a believer but enjoyed our company, We enjoyed his! This is what anarchism looks like, this is what pluralism and tolerance looks like.

If you want to play dress up for a few years as an anarchist, fine. But don't get in the way of the people doing the serious work. A lot of what tries to passes itself of as anarchism in England and Ireland presently...is merely a conservative individualism with a hipper dress sense.

Everyone has a right to be young and stupid. But some of you (try as you may to prolong your adolescence in this subculture) no longer have this excuse!

Related Link: http://www.londoncatholciworker.org
author by No gods! No masters!publication date Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Some ideas to help win the biblical theme fancy dress competition.

The Catholic Church has criticised an Italian television advert in which a half-naked man resembling Christ tries to ward off the advances of an overweight dominatrix dressed in suspenders and stockings..

The advertisement, for a type of mobile phone earpiece, shows the man tied to a bed in a pose that evokes Jesus on the cross.

Sweating and looking anxious, he winces when a woman in tights and high heels enters the room, thwacks whip on the bed and starts to straddle him.

"Hey Dad, can you help me?" the male actor says in English, looking upwards as if to God.

The bizarre ad, for a company called Nodis, has been aired on a national television channel, Italia 1, which is owned by Mediaset, a company belonging to Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister.

jesus_1875555c.jpg

Related Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8458745/Ca....html
author by Gra - Seomra Spraoi - Personal Capacitypublication date Tue Apr 19, 2011 14:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hey,

I'm involved in Seomra Spraoi but this is in a personal capacity. Just to let anybody know that if you have comments or want to engage with Seomra Spraoi around the theme of the night as some commenters have raised above, Seomra Spraoi has a General Meeting this Thursday at 7.30pm in Seomra Spraoi.

Having seen comments online about the party online before the last general meeting 2 weeks ago we had the name of the party on the agenda for discussion at the last meeting. Unfortunately nobody who was against the name or who has commented here or elsewhere online came to the meeting so the discussion on it was pretty limited as a result. As always the General Meeting is open to all and it would be great if people might come this week to share their views. The name could be discussed and probably could still be changed if that was agreed.

author by Dunkpublication date Tue Apr 19, 2011 15:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The post Ciaran posted "Jesus wept....hardly!...what do you expect from a pig but a grunt?" was deleted and filed in the "hidden articles" list under "abuse", i think this is unfair. I read the post, I agreed with some / much of it, while disagreeing with other parts, and thought it was important to allow this discussion to develop. Id ask the imc-ie editors to re-instate the post and allow this important dialogue to continue.

For my part as a SS-er in the early days, as well as a few other bits and pieces, hhhmmm, i fully support ciaran and the rest of the ploughshares 5 for what they did, and along with more did what felt could be done to push things along. the argument of punky anarcho ghettos is valid, think its something that has to be adressed more in the activist world. I disagree that his post was abusive, perhaps too edgy, but i think much was correct.

Anyway, wont go on, this post itself might be hidden, due to referring to that which no longer exists, we will see.

eitherway, regards to all, who do what they can, in any capacity, to move things along. I think one important thing is to open spaces for people to take little steps, hopefully with the idea that those steps lead to bigger deeper steps later (thats why im involved with community gardens, they do just that, and so much more). I think seomra spraoi do that.

Regards from Barcelona,

Dunk

Greening Barcelona - http://barcelonaentransicio.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/gr...lona/

author by Jery Corneliuspublication date Tue Apr 19, 2011 17:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Stick with the name. Its about time that someone stood up to the xtians.

So what if it upsets them? Isn't about time that Libertarians struck a blow against organised superstition?

Enough of the nonsense about people rising from the grave. It only happens in Zombie films.

NO gods!

NO masters!

author by Santapublication date Tue Apr 19, 2011 19:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why should Jesus, Muhammed, Allah and other invented deities & prophets be above mockery?

Why is it ok to mock the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy?

Belief in the Bunny or Fairy is just as valid and a lot cleaner. No one was ever burned at the stake for not believing in the Easter Bunny.

But a correction: Vampires also rise from the grave in horror films.

harville.jpg

vampire_jesus_by_fasslayer.jpg

author by Jery Corneliuspublication date Tue Apr 19, 2011 19:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Heres a reason why you should revere the prophet! This is the sort of thing that comes from stupid superstitions be they christian or muslim.

There is no god, there is no allah!

'Effeminate' boys in Malaysia sent to 'anti-gay' camp

Sixty-six Muslim schoolboys in Malaysia identified by teachers as effeminate have been sent to a special camp for counselling on masculine behaviour.

They are undergoing four days of religious and physical education.

An education official said the camp was meant to guide the boys back "to a proper path in life".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13133589

author by Atheistpublication date Wed Apr 20, 2011 03:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

More current problems caused by backward fictitious beliefs

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-curs....html

Unquestioning faith is a slippery slope that usually ends up with exploitation of some sort unless reined in.

Once you agree to suspend your questioning and critical faculty, then who knows what shit will be peddled as truth

"religion can continue as an impediment or an ally in the crusade against HIV/AIDS, whether the topic is sexual orientation, education, or prevention. The potential for both is there."

http://www.waccglobal.org/en/20072-mediating-the-middle....html

However it currently is a serious impediment to this crusade.

Ciaron, I am behind the stuff you do but why not just do good things because you think they are good? why do you need all this religious baggage?

author by Voice of reason - ..in a world of political correctnesspublication date Wed Apr 20, 2011 14:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why dont the people who object put on their own event and advertise it instead of complain? Im sure the Indymedia editors would oblige you. Seomra Spraoi should stick to the name.

author by Jerry Corneliuspublication date Wed Apr 20, 2011 18:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ciaron seems to little of the history of the Anarchist movement especially how it acted against superstition in Spain in 1936. Churchs were sacked and burned, bodies of nuns were dug up and Anarchists danced with the corpses in the street.

Anarchists played an important role in putting down the reactionary clergy. It was only in the Basque country that a significant number of clergy took the Republican side. 11 bishops, 4,200 secular priests, 2,500 religious and nuns were killed by Republican forces. The CNT/FAI played their part.

My sort of Anarchists dont believe in pluralism when they are dealing with organisations that are responsible for genocide over the last 2,000 years.

Now all we are doing is mocking them.

Ciaron is entitled to believe in Jesus. I mock people who believe in the Easter Bunny. Equally and by the same logic I mock those who believe in the Jesus blood cult.

I admire Ciaron for his anti war work. But hes got a bit of a big head. Many of us play our part in the srtruggle against imperialism and capitalism but we dont boast about it.

There are many campaigns, anti fascist, anti cuts, shell to sea, for a womans right to choose. Dont think yours is the only struggle.

Nuns dug up.
Nuns dug up.

Awaiting a dance.
Awaiting a dance.

Anarchists show what they think of the RCC
Anarchists show what they think of the RCC

author by Ciaron - Giuseppe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Thu Apr 21, 2011 07:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Celebrating the death penalty and necrophilia foreplay on this thread and calling it "anarchism". Hard not to treat it all as a self isolating subcultural elitest joke.

You can call yourself "anarchists", like the hate preacher in Florida can call himself a "christian" while he burns another a Koran and people die as consequence somewhere else.

If you're problem is with the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland, past and/or present, why paint yourself into a corner isolating yourself from the rank and file Catholics in struggles from Rossport to the urban estates to the anti-war movement? How does that serve anything but the self isolation of an elitest subculture, divide and rule sectarianism, the state's agenda?
How does that serve building a mass movement of resistance in Ireland?

Are you so colonised on this Ireland, and have internalised British partition to such an extent on this Ireland, that you remain ignorant of how your "mocking" aligns itself with imagery and an ideology that saw the murder of hundreds merely for being "Catholic".,90 miles north of your West Brit city? Or is that place and history another country to you? How many people were tortured and killed for being identified as "anarchists" on this Ireland over the last 40 years, how many were tortured and killed for merely being identified as "Catholics"?

Do you have no understanding of the historical Jesus? His obvious resistance to imperialism, the torture and execution of this dissident...no matter what inverted surrender to empire his followers have done with his memory? Would you rather remain ignorant?

Why don't you unleash such satire on the anniversary of the death of Bobby Sands? There has been satirical graffiti and murals in Belfast dealing with Sand's death/martyrdom? If the iconography of martyrdom is your problem why mock Jesus and not Sands? Is it a question of what you consider "soft targets" and courage?

The accusation of someone of having a "big head" is a typical and is a product of your 800 colonisation, the class riddled society, the collective mediocrity it produced and you are a product of

........mate, I've got a convict streak as part of my Irish identity. I'd rather a big head, than a thick head like yours! Australian Irish don't do deference too well, it's a cultural thang- 12,000 miles from coloniser HQ (whether that be deference to D4 accents, rock stars, movement bureaucrats or the latest "too cool for school kids of the @ subculture"), like most Irish outside the 26 county Free State we suffered for our identity.

I don't care what you do on Good Friday, I'll be downtown London nonviolently confronting British & U.S. imperialism in a radical Stations of the Cross...from Scotland Yard to the M.O.D. to 10 Downing St..

You do what you like, just don't mistake radical Christians, whether they are the rank and file at Rossport or CW's as "soft targets" that will back off from the battle of ideas or tolerate your self defeating sectarianism. If you'r priority is to keep your ever decreasing numbers amused go for it, that's your choice.

I'll be in Ireland for the Queen and Obama visitiations, if you want to facilitate a debate on these issues count me in. If not, no worries...lot's to do.............. "Free Bradley Manning!"...he's just been shanghaied t Leavenworth and his Grandad was form Dublin!

As Johnny Rotten said at the gig in Ireland after some young anonymous wannabe coward threw a full can of lager at the old man
"You've got enemies mate! And I'm not one of them!"

Related Link: http://www.londoncatholicworker.org
author by JCpublication date Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ciaron, are your comments on behalf of GC House and London CWM? If not then you shouldn't use the titles after your name.

"Celebrating the death penalty and necrophilia foreplay on this thread and calling it "anarchism". Hard not to treat it all as a self isolating subcultural elitest joke."

Not celebrating the death penalty, its mocking the RCC the most evil organisation in the world. btw I'm speaking for myself not Seomra.

"You can call yourself "anarchists", like the hate preacher in Florida can call himself a "christian" while he burns another a Koran and people die as consequence somewhere else."

Yes, Anarchists fight against ignorance and superstition. That preacher is no different from Pope Benny.

"If you're problem is with the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland, past and/or present, why paint yourself into a corner isolating yourself from the rank and file Catholics in struggles from Rossport to the urban estates to the anti-war movement? How does that serve anything but the self isolation of an elitest subculture, divide and rule sectarianism, the state's agenda?
How does that serve building a mass movement of resistance in Ireland?"

Not so many people are upset by these things. A lot of people involved in Rossport will be at the party.

"Are you so colonised on this Ireland, and have internalised British partition to such an extent on this Ireland, that you remain ignorant of how your "mocking" aligns itself with imagery and an ideology that saw the murder of hundreds merely for being "Catholic".,90 miles north of your West Brit city? Or is that place and history another country to you? How many people were tortured and killed for being identified as "anarchists" on this Ireland over the last 40 years, how many were tortured and killed for merely being identified as "Catholics"?"

Nothing to do with being colonised. Its a case of throwing off the old shackles of Rome Rule. How about the hundreds of millions of people murdered by the church of rome over the centuries? Also the catholic church was always in league with the brits.

"Do you have no understanding of the historical Jesus? His obvious resistance to imperialism, the torture and execution of this dissident...no matter what inverted surrender to empire his followers have done with his memory? Would you rather remain ignorant?"

His existence is as likely as that of the easter bunny.

"Why don't you unleash such satire on the anniversary of the death of Bobby Sands? There has been satirical graffiti and murals in Belfast dealing with Sand's death/martyrdom? If the iconography of martyrdom is your problem why mock Jesus and not Sands? Is it a question of what you consider "soft targets" and courage?"

False comparison. Sands is not a religious figure. Imho Sands was a Socialist Republican hero. Why would I want to dis him.

"The accusation of someone of having a "big head" is a typical and is a product of your 800 colonisation, the class riddled society, the collective mediocrity it produced and you are a product of"

Yopu think you are someone important. Look at the way you go on?

.".......mate, I've got a convict streak as part of my Irish identity. I'd rather a big head, than a thick head like yours! Australian Irish don't do deference too well, it's a cultural thang- 12,000 miles from coloniser HQ (whether that be deference to D4 accents, rock stars, movement bureaucrats or the latest "too cool for school kids of the @ subculture"), like most Irish outside the 26 county Free State we suffered for our identity."

Wow. I've got a thick head! I'm devastated!

Should we swap heritages? My ancestors were fenians, my granda fought the blueshirts. My father burned dowm mosleys house in galway and dedicated his life to the struggle as have I.

"I don't care what you do on Good Friday, I'll be downtown London nonviolently confronting British & U.S. imperialism in a radical Stations of the Cross...from Scotland Yard to the M.O.D. to 10 Downing St.."

I admire you for that. But you are not the only activist in the world. Last saturday I was part of a group who physically took on an attempt to form a fascist group in Dublin. Should i send you pics of my bruises?

"You do what you like, just don't mistake radical Christians, whether they are the rank and file at Rossport or CW's as "soft targets" that will back off from the battle of ideas or tolerate your self defeating sectarianism. If you'r priority is to keep your ever decreasing numbers amused go for it, that's your choice."

You should accept my right to mock your christ & the easter bunny. Its the numberr of christians which are decreasing.

"I'll be in Ireland for the Queen and Obama visitiations, if you want to facilitate a debate on these issues count me in. If not, no worries...lot's to do.............. "Free Bradley Manning!"...he's just been shanghaied t Leavenworth and his Grandad was form Dublin!"

I dont see any point in debating with with a prima donna who gets upset when i mock a mythical being.

"As Johnny Rotten said at the gig in Ireland after some young anonymous wannabe coward threw a full can of lager at the old man
"You've got enemies mate! And I'm not one of them!""

Given some of your comments and fiery remarks I fear that you are not so much a friend.

Just went past the Marie Stopes Clinc. Its being picketed by catholics who want to shut it down. No abortions performed there they just give contraception and advice on where to get an abortion in england . Thats a fight that has to be fought for womens rights. some take the side of the picketers.

author by JCpublication date Thu Apr 21, 2011 13:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In Spain you could get the party banned and have the Guarda Civil to break it up if it went ahead. Just shows the Anarchists in Spain were too moderate.

Spanish atheist march banned in Easter Week

A Spanish court has banned an atheists' group from marching through the capital Madrid as the city's Catholics celebrate Easter Week.

The Madrid superior court of justice upheld a ban imposed last week by the Madrid region authorities, who had argued the march could provoke clashes.

One of the march's organisers said the ban showed there was no separation of Church and state in Spain.

The march would have coincided with Maundy Thursday religious processions.

Imposing the original ban, the Madrid region interior ministry noted the route of the proposed march through the capital's Lavapies district would pass by several Catholic churches.

Related Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13158138
author by A. T. istpublication date Thu Apr 21, 2011 14:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm quite sure that both Ciaron and JC are excellent activists, each in their own way and each concentrating on particular issues. Good, so there's no need to burnish your respective credentials in what is in danger of descending into a willy waving competition. We believe you guys are good and sincere, end of.

Ciaron believes the SS gig is offensive to committed Catholics. Yes, I'm sure it is. But any right to free speech (an anarchist principle if there ever was one) MUST include the right to cause offence and discomfort as long as that does not cross the line into incitement to hatred. None of us have the right to demand that our set of beliefs (spiritual, philosophical, ideological, whatever) be placed beyond criticism, analysis and even mockery or ridicule. Otherwise we hand over control of pulic discourse and actions to the religious extremists. Not a good idea.

And nobody was murdered in the North cos they believed in transubstantiation, assumption or the virgin birth. People were murdered because they came from the Catholic community. Religion was simply a convenient distinguishing badge of their ethnic, national and cultural identity - for that, yes, hundreds were murdered. It was a tribal conflict in which the two tribes happened to have tiny, tiny, insubstantial nuances of difference in their theological beliefs. In fact, I believe most people on both sides wouold have been hard pressed to give a half decent explanation of where precisely Catholic Chtistianity differs from Protestant Christianity.

So live and let live, athiests, agnostics and all shades of believers alike. You can mock Dawkins, I can mock Christ, Allah, Knishna, Jehovah, Zeus and many many more besides. Its a free world - or it should be.

And of course Ciaron is free to mock SS and its band of merry aranchists, he may be right or wrong but he undoubtedly should be free to speak.

author by Conor - Seomra spraoi (per cap)publication date Thu Apr 21, 2011 19:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just to ad here, not everyone involved in the collective, the bike workshop, the cinema group, the kitchen, the language lessons etc, are anarchists.

author by Ciaron - Giuseppe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 07:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ok, it's been good - therapeutic even - to be able to express my opinion on all this. Thanx to the indy editors for providing this forum. Silence is complicity and it has, as usual, been good not to remain silent. The usual "big head" troll responses that seems to be consistent on UK and Irish indymedia whenever I post did not disappoint.

Here's an example of how CW's and their athiest/agnostic/whatever friends party (live from my bedroom last Saturday night)!. There is a difference between SELF DEPRECIATING HUMOUR and attempting to HUMILIATE. A lot of us have been to jail as consequence of nonviolent resistance to the imperial state and many of us are going back (maybe this morning as we explore the story of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Imperial Rome and its relevancy to Bradley Manning, the people of Iraq and Afghanistan around the towers of power in downtown London)

Carmen Trotta singing Jail House Rock in Ciaron's crib at CW Faith & Resistance last Saturday night..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROZ0YEtZoC8

Related Link: http://www.londoncatholicworker.org
author by JCpublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 13:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Ok, it's been good - therapeutic even - to be able to express my opinion on all this. Thanx to the indy editors for providing this forum. Silence is complicity and it has, as usual, been good not to remain silent. The usual "big head" troll responses that seems to be consistent on UK and Irish indymedia whenever I post did not disappoint."

Saying you have a big head is not trolling. Imho its an accurate description of how you behave. You are an activist but so are many other, unlike you we are not self publicists. Take the recent Gareth Peirse article: there are 3 pics, you appear in 2 of them.

Also your campaign is no the only one in the world. Those of us who fight for womens rights are also fighting for a valid cause. The great catholic human rights group trocaire has dissociated itself from a call for the decriminalisation of abortion, not legalisation, just decriminalisation.

"Here's an example of how CW's and their athiest/agnostic/whatever friends party (live from my bedroom last Saturday night)!. There is a difference between SELF DEPRECIATING HUMOUR and attempting to HUMILIATE. A lot of us have been to jail as consequence of nonviolent resistance to the imperial state and many of us are going back (maybe this morning as we explore the story of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Imperial Rome and its relevancy to Bradley Manning, the people of Iraq and Afghanistan around the towers of power in downtown London)"

I laugh at and humiliate those who believe in the easter bunny, equally i sneer at those who believe in the jesus blood cult.

Remember its other christians who oppressed the catholics in ireland. (But catholics also became good at oppressing.) I stand with the catholics of the Garrvaghy RD and Harryville when they come under attack from loyalists but I donr have to respect their beliefs.

Equally if a mosque was under attack from racists I would physically defend that mosque. But i wont respect islam.

If jesus did exist and i was there at the time i would have been shouting for the Freedom Fighter Barabas rather than he who taught to render on to Caesar what is Caesars.

Bobby Sands stood in the tradition of Barabas.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 15:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Actually, as I understand it, Rome tried to wash its hands (literallly, thats where the phrase seems to originate) of the whole embarrassing affair. Lady Macbeth had a similar problem with bloodstains.
JC's crime, the offence given, was to Caiaphas, the Jewish high-priest. HE organised the rendition, torture and lynching.

JC claimed to be the 'anointed one', a title Caiaphas reserved for himself, not unlike the supreme and infallible Roman pontiff (the emperor was commonly deified and this is a title the roman emperor used, and thus an indicator of what Roman Catholicism is, the adaptation of JC's persona to the service of imperial Roman ends).

Thats all christ means, the anointed, its the same root as chrism, a Greek translation of the hebrew 'messiah'). The erection of this term into a shibboleth(jewish term for secretive code of recognition by pronouncement of dialectical word difficult for outsiders, i.e. those excluded)is just another part of the obfuscation of the man's teachings which were found offensive, i.e. that 'salvation' was open to ALL, including the gentile goyim, which didn't sit well with the tribal exclusivism common to most religions, including judaism.

The arguments on this page are riddled with unconscious ironies. Catholicism means universal. By tagging it Roman, an oxymoronic lie was attached to the original idea that JC(along with other religious thinkers)advocated. By claiming to be 'the one true church', requiring initiated membership, the RCs and other christians immediately betray the man's original project. Its akin to the oxymoronic lie of national socialism, given that socialism, to work, would have to be a planetary and HUMAN endevour, rather than a national tribal pocket. Yet another irony being that Adolf took his lead from uno duce, who wished to recreate the 'glory' of Rome for modern Italy.

Another irony(jaysis, this is gettin rusty) is that the scientist Mordechai Vanunu, the jew who 'betrayed' Zion by revealing the nuclear program given Israel by the french, considers himself a Christian, for all the Christian solidarity it seems to generate from the established churches. Zions greatest supporters have always been bible-literal-interpreting christians trying to initiate the endtimes and armageddon.
Thus endeth today's sermon. Lose not thy sense of fucking irony.

author by Furor Hibernicus.publication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 15:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Actually, as I understand it, Rome tried to wash its hands."

That was just one man Opus.

Rome didn't give damn about the superstitions of perepherial barbarians like the Irish or the Jews.

( The Roman historian Tacitus says they didn't invade Ireland because we weren't worth it.)

Excuses... Excuses.

We Irish were too blood thirsty and better warriors than Romans obviously.
.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 15:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

given that anarchy means 'without rule', or if you prefer, 'let the invisible hand of the market decide'. In other words dog-eat-dog and the devil-take-the-hindmost right wing politics the blueshirts have always advocated, like their british tory forefathers. Its a philosophy that always suits the strong and established. Anarchists on the other hand come in every shade of interpretation of the term. Many believ naively that the breakdown of the current order will release our better natures. history indicates it aint necessarily so.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 17:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Pilate was acting in his capacity as Roman governor of a troublesome province, and like most such would have wanted minimum disruption of imperial business. Religion was quite central to interpretations of the world, and the incorporation of subjugated populations' dieties and rites was common in Rome, hence their pan-theon of gods.

Had they digested britain they would have gotten round to us before they did, indirectly through their church, which did actually war with the Irish version for quite a while before the centralised Roman theology won dominance. If I write of 'one man', how many was Tacitus?Empires have a logic bigger than individuals.

author by Furor Hibernicus.publication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 17:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Romans Rule,Ok.

One "thumbs up" to Jesus from a disinterested powerful Roman governor and the local provincial crowd would have scattered along with their fairy tales.

And the cult called Christianity would never have existed.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 17:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

..and the provincials DID scatter with their fairy tales. Socrates and Buddha had already said the same subversive things a half a milennium earlier.

They got hunted too. They upset their local druids, seldom advisable.

author by Ciaron - Giuseepe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 20:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Look mate you probably haven't got any Muslim or Catholic friends, because you haven't got any working class frineds! True?

We have a similar anarcho cubby house as S.S. in Hackney - 20 yards from where CW do a weekly soup kitchen for street drinkers (Polish Catholics and Muslims amongst them), the kids at the anarcho cubby house wouldn't think of doing anything for these homless people or resisting the state.

S.S., and the like, are at their best are self serving middle class kidz trying to ge off the grid for couple of years before mum and dad calls them home,to straighten out and slot right back in.

How with this kind of self isolating shite, they relate to the Mayo Catholics praying the rosary as they block shell at Rossport (see "The Pipe") or would have related to Bobby Sands who called for the Berrigans to visit and received the rosary from the Pope as he died is anybody's guess? What they make of Peter McVery, dunno?

They have no problem with being self isolating as they are basically elitest hipsters who never moved on from undergraduate and adolescent anarchism. They don't mind being an isolated subculture as they have no intention taking any risk at confronitng the state or helping the poor.

I've spent 30+ years around the anarchist scene while going to church. Trust me, church people are much more broadminded, tolerant and engaged with the poor and oppositional to the state than the Irish English Australian anarchist scenes.

S.S. in Dublin bans the Basques from meeting. The local Kurds here in Harringey (whose cultural centre was raided recently by MI5) -and anarchists meet in our church hall. Go figure?

BIG HEAD CRITICISM FROM THE THICK HEADS....
As I've argued before the timidity (see approx 30 arrests as 1 million U.S. troops past through the country to kill 1 million Iaqis after 100,000 went through the motions of marching Feb 15 03!), self censorship,class ridden (know your place..what gives you the righ to say?") collective mediocrity, ambiguity of 26 county expressions of Irishness....has a lot to do with proximity to coloniser HQ, 800 years of colonisation (keeping ya ass covered and head down) one face for the neighbor, another for the coloniser, the small population (2 degrees of seperation..easier to get blacklisted.)
Diaspora and miltary occuped Irish are a different kettle of fish.

Anways Happy Easter, we got busted and released blocking th gates of 10 Downing St. in solidarity with Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. They cut us loose after a while, obviously Jesus wasn't so lucky.

Related Link: http://www.londoncatholicworker.org
author by jcpublication date Fri Apr 22, 2011 21:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Look mate you probably haven't got any Muslim or Catholic friends, because you haven't got any working class frineds! True?"

Now you are just being silly. I'm as working class as you, I've been involved longer but I'm not into self publicity.

"We have a similar anarcho cubby house as S.S. in Hackney - 20 yards from where CW do a weekly soup kitchen for street drinkers (Polish Catholics and Muslims amongst them), the kids at the anarcho cubby house wouldn't think of doing anything for these homless people or resisting the state."

Again thats just silly abuse. You think that yours is the only campaign. Seomras core missionis not to set up a soup kitchen. Volunteers are stretched. But if Dublin CWM came to Seomra and suggested it I'm sure they'd be welcomed.

"S.S., and the like, are at their best are self serving middle class kidz trying to ge off the grid for couple of years before mum and dad calls them home,to straighten out and slot right back in."

Do you feel better after that? You know nothing about the people involved in Seomra. If you did you wouldnt come out with that nonsense. You are now making a fool of yourself in front of the Irish activist community.

"How with this kind of self isolating shite, they relate to the Mayo Catholics praying the rosary as they block shell at Rossport (see "The Pipe") or would have related to Bobby Sands who called for the Berrigans to visit and received the rosary from the Pope as he died is anybody's guess? What they make of Peter McVery, dunno?"

This may be relevant to you but its not to me. Sands is relevant but his religious beliefs are not. He fought british imperialism because he was a republican socialist, not because he was a catholic.

"They have no problem with being self isolating as they are basically elitest hipsters who never moved on from undergraduate and adolescent anarchism. They don't mind being an isolated subculture as they have no intention taking any risk at confronitng the state or helping the poor."

Thats just more silly ranting. Semantically null & void.

"I've spent 30+ years around the anarchist scene while going to church. Trust me, church people are much more broadminded, tolerant and engaged with the poor and oppositional to the state than the Irish English Australian anarchist scenes."

I've spent 30 + years as an activist and thats not my experience of church people.

"S.S. in Dublin bans the Basques from meeting. The local Kurds here in Harringey (whose cultural centre was raided recently by MI5) -and anarchists meet in our church hall. Go figure?"

SS operates by consensus, consensus wasnt reached I think the Basque group should be allowed meet there.

How many catholic churchs will give a meeting place for women campaigning for better access to contraception let alone the right to choose?

"BIG HEAD CRITICISM FROM THE THICK HEADS...."

Why is it thick to criticise you? You act like a cult leader.

"As I've argued before the timidity (see approx 30 arrests as 1 million U.S. troops past through the country to kill 1 million Iaqis after 100,000 went through the motions of marching Feb 15 03!), self censorship,class ridden (know your place..what gives you the righ to say?") collective mediocrity, ambiguity of 26 county expressions of Irishness....has a lot to do with proximity to coloniser HQ, 800 years of colonisation (keeping ya ass covered and head down) one face for the neighbor, another for the coloniser, the small population (2 degrees of seperation..easier to get blacklisted.)
Diaspora and miltary occuped Irish are a different kettle of fish."

Thats a stream of consciousness rant. You are just one activist among many but you crave attention. We activists are legion but you wont set our agenda and we wont bow down before you.

"Anways Happy Easter, we got busted and released blocking th gates of 10 Downing St. in solidarity with Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. They cut us loose after a while, obviously Jesus wasn't so lucky."

Its a pity you had to put that bit of information at the end of an abusive rant.

Congrats to you and to millions of unknown activists who carry on the fight against imperialism and capitalism day in, day out.

Rember Barabas!

author by Ciaron - Giuseppe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Sat Apr 23, 2011 07:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

JC

I appreciate your responses and if I get the time I will respond but you are clearly posting on a thread that is clearly abusive. Abusive of the memory of at most minimally (see the Roman historian Josephus) a Galilean dissident who was tortured and executed by Roman imperialism. Abuse posted by people posted who have probably never spent a night in custody. The intention of this thread was to humiliate those who identify with Christ.

Read some Alice Miller
.....there are 2 responses psychologically when you humiliate people

1) they internalise the humiliation, embrace self hatred, curl up in the foetal position and die...see a lot (not all) the indigenoues response in Australia

or 2) they go for the jugular of the one doing the humiliating see the popular base of the Provo campaign to take out the stock exchange, British cabinet, old man Mountbatten on hilidayz

...and of course Jesus says if they offer you 2 alternatives always choose the third....keep the intiaitive with nonviolent love of enemy.

I'm commited to 3. but often lapse to 2 and I'm not really interested in 1. If it's a choice between depression and anger I'm always going to choose the later...although I know I have signed up for keeping the initiative with nonviolent love option.

You are trying to define me out of existence as an "egotist" (like many right wingers try), you employ piss poor psychobable in your failed attempt
............I am responding with a cultural analysis. I am not from a free state Irish timidity and self censorship background.

I, like Assange, was raised in Queensland where you come out swinging or move to Sydney. I am from an American movement (where the Blancos have had the Irish scepticism and English reserve shite kicked out of them by the massive input of Latino and African culture "if ya got it strut it and chances are the community will celebrate it"
...note the difference between salsa and Irish dancing (possibly the most sexually repressed dance form in the wold)...this will tell you a lot.!

Fact is S.S. (last time I visited) has tied itself in knots with identity politics...like the U.S. "War Resisters League" which has been rendered useless during these last 10 years of war. HSG, which meets monthly in our local church hall, are serious (largely English, which has it own problems) anarchists with a focus on community organising with "ordinary people" , many of them would share the same criticisms of the elitest anarcho lifetstyler folks. Reel News is starting regular screenings at Giuseppe Conlon centre disused church venue, Fitwatch approached us to use our venue, Peace News will hold their 75th. celebrations there soon..LCW is pretty inclusive and pratise good stewardship with the resources we have stumbled upon)

JC you make some good counterpoints to my posts. Yes, some of my stuff on this thread has been stream of consciousness as this thread is a poor medium to explore these issues. I have offered to debate these issues in Dublin. But people have not the courage to do this, people post in this thread anonymously so no surprises there.

How can I be a "cult leader" (an accusation implied by the prosecution in our three Pit Stop Dublin trials), when I have no followers? Read athiest Harry Browne's "Hammered by the Irish" if you have concerns that the Pit Stop women and other male were slavish following by cult leader dictates.

Dude if ya haven't got a publicist, IT'S ALL SELF PUBLICITY!
The radical anti-war market is so deflated 10 years into this war, I'm probably going to stand out because there is not much of a crowd to get lost in.

My focus presently is solidarity work for the anarchist Assange and athiest Manning who look like spending the rest of their lives in custody (or being killed in custody) for exposing these wars.

The way I see it, if you marched on Feb 15th 2003 you incited these men (one is gay, 5'2", 105 lbs and is being tortured last 300+ daze) to resist the war.
I'm pissed off with the lack of solidarity coming out of the anarchist scene for them.
You incited them in 03, they answered your call, they resisted, you now have abandon them to the state.....yes the war has lost it sex appeal for you, Assange can be defined out of existences as an "egotist" and Manning as "a gay and a geek", me as whatever and Jesus asan "Easter Bunny" this may help you fortify your comfort zone and sleep at night
That's how I see it

Related Link: http://www.dublincatholicworker.org
author by jcpublication date Sat Apr 23, 2011 14:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"I appreciate your responses and if I get the time I will respond but you are clearly posting on a thread that is clearly abusive. Abusive of the memory of at most minimally (see the Roman historian Josephus) a Galilean dissident who was tortured and executed by Roman imperialism. Abuse posted by people posted who have probably never spent a night in custody. The intention of this thread was to humiliate those who identify with Christ."

You know nothing of the people involved in Seomra. If you did you wouldnt post such nonsense.

"Read some Alice Miller
.....there are 2 responses psychologically when you humiliate people

1) they internalise the humiliation, embrace self hatred, curl up in the foetal position and die...see a lot (not all) the indigenoues response in Australia

or 2) they go for the jugular of the one doing the humiliating see the popular base of the Provo campaign to take out the stock exchange, British cabinet, old man Mountbatten on hilidayz

...and of course Jesus says if they offer you 2 alternatives always choose the third....keep the intiaitive with nonviolent love of enemy.

I'm commited to 3. but often lapse to 2 and I'm not really interested in 1. If it's a choice between depression and anger I'm always going to choose the later...although I know I have signed up for keeping the initiative with nonviolent love option."

Ciaron

We are striking against superstition. A dangerous superstition that has caused the deaths of hundreds of millions of people over the millennia.

"You are trying to define me out of existence as an "egotist" (like many right wingers try), you employ piss poor psychobable in your failed attempt
............I am responding with a cultural analysis. I am not from a free state Irish timidity and self censorship background. "

Ciaron , I'm commenting on the way that your name always appeaers and your picture is always in there. I admire as an activist but not your egotism.

"I, like Assange, was raised in Queensland where you come out swinging or move to Sydney. I am from an American movement (where the Blancos have had the Irish scepticism and English reserve shite kicked out of them by the massive input of Latino and African culture "if ya got it strut it and chances are the community will celebrate it"
...note the difference between salsa and Irish dancing (possibly the most sexually repressed dance form in the wold)...this will tell you a lot.!"

More stream of consciousness but you just have to compare yourself to Assange. I admire him but hes also an egotist. He did nothing illegal but if you keep hitting on vulnerable young women then eventually the chickens come home to roost. you might learn something from that. Those women are now being used by imoperialism.

"Fact is S.S. (last time I visited) has tied itself in knots with identity politics...like the U.S. "War Resisters League" which has been rendered useless during these last 10 years of war. HSG, which meets monthly in our local church hall, are serious (largely English, which has it own problems) anarchists with a focus on community organising with "ordinary people" , many of them would share the same criticisms of the elitest anarcho lifetstyler folks. Reel News is starting regular screenings at Giuseppe Conlon centre disused church venue, Fitwatch approached us to use our venue, Peace News will hold their 75th. celebrations there soon..LCW is pretty inclusive and pratise good stewardship with the resources we have stumbled upon)"

Above is not relevant to the debate. You know nothing of whats happenning internally in SEomra.

"JC you make some good counterpoints to my posts. Yes, some of my stuff on this thread has been stream of consciousness as this thread is a poor medium to explore these issues. I have offered to debate these issues in Dublin. But people have not the courage to do this, people post in this thread anonymously so no surprises there."

Why should I debate you on this? I admire your activism. I'll debate strategy and tactics re the anti war movement and anti cuts campaigns. But i wont waste time on your superstitions.

"How can I be a "cult leader" (an accusation implied by the prosecution in our three Pit Stop Dublin trials), when I have no followers? Read athiest Harry Browne's "Hammered by the Irish" if you have concerns that the Pit Stop women and other male were slavish following by cult leader dictates."

You act like one with your Jesus like poses and your need to always be in the pic. I'm not saying u are Charles Manson!

"Dude if ya haven't got a publicist, IT'S ALL SELF PUBLICITY!
The radical anti-war market is so deflated 10 years into this war, I'm probably going to stand out because there is not much of a crowd to get lost in."

Well your hair makes you stand out! But lots of us are involved in campaigns which are rather small. We manage to avoid being in the pic.

Idea! How about having your hair shaved off as a fundraiser?

"My focus presently is solidarity work for the anarchist Assange and athiest Manning who look like spending the rest of their lives in custody (or being killed in custody) for exposing these wars. "

I will try and do more more to support them but I have other involvements: AFA, HOPI, 1% Network etc

"The way I see it, if you marched on Feb 15th 2003 you incited these men (one is gay, 5'2", 105 lbs and is being tortured last 300+ daze) to resist the war.
I'm pissed off with the lack of solidarity coming out of the anarchist scene for them.
You incited them in 03, they answered your call, they resisted, you now have abandon them to the state.....yes the war has lost it sex appeal for you, Assange can be defined out of existences as an "egotist" and Manning as "a gay and a geek", me as whatever and Jesus asan "Easter Bunny" this may help you fortify your comfort zone and sleep at night
That's how I see it"

Your prioriities are not mine. I choose to dedicate more time to things which I believe to be equally valid. Including smashing fascists. Just checked, I've still got the bruises.

Assange is a bit of an egoist but you wont find anyone on the irish left calling Brad a gay geek.

I'm Bi myself so I'll call Brad a Fighting Fairy! Now thats high praise.

author by JCpublication date Sat Apr 23, 2011 20:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Different people are upset by different things.

The rather bloody Last Supper below will upset some. But people eat the body of Jesus when they take communion.

But so will the Mao as Jesus, and not just xtians, I might have to hide out from my Maoist friends for a while. But Mao iscertainly responsible for a lot less deaths than Christianity.

Of course the idea of a Stalinist Superman is anathama to many yanks.

To me the real obscenity is book burning.

Lets not get upset by a few images or by a social.

You can mock Dawkins and Grayling, it won't upset me.

Last Supper: Picking The Bones
Last Supper: Picking The Bones

Mao Messiah
Mao Messiah

Stalinist Superman
Stalinist Superman

Book Burning at the Opernplatz 1933
Book Burning at the Opernplatz 1933

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sun Apr 24, 2011 15:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors


..isn't that Benny Nazinger slipping out the side door?
The one with the altar boy under his skirt.

I remembers it well, it was the '84 college of cardinals reunion for the counter-revolution of the ecumenical wrong-road sabotage-squad.
V. pious.

author by Mary Kellypublication date Mon Apr 25, 2011 07:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I want to clarify that I am no longer a member of what Ciaron O Reilly refers to as the Atlantis Community. I call it a cult. When we met in Dublin in 2002 he very kindly offered me accommodation, as I was homeless and trying to finally leave this cult forever.

Regarding the heavy lifting Ciaron refers to, I have always held that had us activists gotten together, sorted out differences and supported each other, it would have been easier for people to back us, build wider solidarity and some others might then have considered direct and other actions an attractive possibility.

Ciaron promised to be part of a mediated meeting with myself and the CWs after their trial finished. This has never happened. The oft complaint of lack of an anti-war movement in Ireland is disingenuous in light of this unwillingness to dialogue. Be the change you want to see happen on that front. The offer to meet is still open.

author by Ciaron - Giuseppe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Mon Apr 25, 2011 08:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As you can see we found other ways to explore, on Good Friday, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and relate it to contemporary events and themes...imperial war, torture, Bradley Manning etc.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99612

I have spent too much time responding on this thread. I spent an hour writing a rebuttal and response to "JC" this morning but lost it (I'm none too techie). I have been organising resistance solidarity work and bringing 5 international activists and artists into London over the past 2 weeks. I now have to start working on the visits of the Queen and Obama to Ireland. So I ain't got much time to respond, once again, to the same old accusations.

Suffice to say the same argument "JC" trots out here was one of the the central argument of the state prosecution case against me in our 3 trials at the Four Courts that
- I am en egotist and cult leader.

The senior and junior prosecutor were a lot brighter and more resourced than "JC" to pursue this accusation & line of argument. They failed to convince 12 ordinary Dubliners of this case and accusation against me they share with "JC". Read athiest Harry Browne's account of this failed prosecution in his book "Hammered by the Irish"

I stayed with Atlantis for a night in Donegal in Christmas of '79. I first met Mary Kelly in the late '90's, when I when I found myself in Cork looking for a Dutch (?) woman I met at a Trident Ploughshares action and Faslane who had written to me and asked for me to make contact if I was ever in Cork, where she was working on the Atlantis boat in Baltimore. My younger brother was living and working in Cork, so when I visited him I tried looking up the the Dutch woman and met Mary.

In 02, i attended a public meeting in Wynne's Hotel to hear Mary speak of her experiences in Palestine during the 2002 siege of the "Church of the Nativity" (where a number of people were killed and Mary intervened heroicly and nonviolently). After the meeting over a pint, I discovered she had no where to stay and offered her hospitality at a Ballyfermot house I was house sitting.

At one point in the heady daze of Jan/Feb 03, there were major issues between our plowshares group and the peace camp and also Mary Kelly. There were issues between Mary Kelly and the peace camp. Pitstops took the position that we would engage Mary once we were out of jail. One of our people stayed in jail for 3 months on remqand from the point of arrest.. We did not fully reassemble for 3 months. By that time Mary was going into her first trial in Co. Clare, we were banned from that county and were seeking a change of venue for our trial to Dublin.

One of our number then moved to Sligo, we rarely assembled as the five...when we did time was short and we had other prirorities. We did what we could for Mary as she went through various trial scenes...producing leaflets, staging solidarity vigils for her at the Dail, GPO etc (I did this for the Raytheon 9 after our acquittal as well, I'm still doing it for the Disarm Plowshares and I attended the EDO 9 trial in Brighton last year etc etc)

When we were finally acquitted after 3 trials and 3 1/2 years of stress, the Pitstops did not debrief as a group of 5 for more than an hour. The other 2 plowshares groups (U.S. and Austraalia) I have been in spent days debriefing. So it's understandable Pitstops were exhausted and wanted to get back to/ on with their lives. I have no regular contact (unless I initiate it) with any of the 8 people I have done plowshares actions with it over the last 20 years!. Life moves on!

Of the 7 people who did the "heavy lifting" serious nonviolent intervention actions at Shannon, only 2 have decided to continue to live on in Ireland. Whether this has anything to do with the level of (or lack of ) solidarity they experienced in jail or before the courts in 26 county Ireland you'd have to ask them individually.

I recently met my Senior Prosecutor while leafleting a Gareth Pierce event in Dublin and we spoke for 15 minutes about Manning, the war, the state of Ireland. (Admittedly i didn't realise it was my prosecutor that had cross examined me three times until l half an hour after we conversed). I'm pretty much willing to talk to anyone..

So sure I'll talk to Mary Kelly, drop by Giuseppe Conlon House next time ya in London for a chat.

author by Finpublication date Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ciaron you should really read over what you are saying. it reads like you think only you have the solutions to Irelands ills. Given the abuse and daily contempt the catholic church has held people in, in this country you should be slightly more humble when pushing your religion. Why should we be forced to celebrate your religion (yes yes we are - there are two public holidays around easter). Are you surpirsed people organised things like this? We have had Religion quite literally beaten into us so if people reject it in its entirety it is hardly surprising.....

You're critique of Seomra Spraoi and Irish Anarchist " as someone who comes from the coal face" is counterproductive and not accurate. Do you think we are sitting here in Dublin going "ah yeah that guy over in London giving us shit has the right idea" Your citation of the people saying the roasry in Mayo is based on a film and you shouldnt believe evrything you see in the movies. As someone who was actually there that day I can say the only people present from a politcial background were Anarchists and people who frequent Seomra Spraoi. How did we relate - well we didnt pray but I think there was a solid relationship developed between us and the community. They were able to appreciate our difference with them in terms of many things. I think you have a completely jaundiced view of both activists and "mayo catholics". You are repeating something that people always assume about poeple in Mayo - that they are small town catholics who couldnt grasp other people's views.

author by Ciaron - Giuseepe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Wed Apr 27, 2011 05:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

1. This party and thread celebates torture and execution.
Hardly surprising y'all are from a country that facilitated torture flights over the last decade through Shannon Airport. You are from a movement that offered little resistance to this practise. You are from a generation that has seen the mainstreaming of torture practises. Practises that were pioneered in the north east partitioned part of your small Ireland, 4 decades ago. 26 county folks (with a few honoroble exceptions) learnt to live with that torture and war inflicted on Irish people a mere 90 miles north of their captal. So others have posited, how could you expect them to object to a war several flight hours away and a million troops merely passing through to kill and torture people of colour....or a handful transported through the 26 counties to be tortured in Gitmo?

2. Celebrating the torture and execution of the revolutionary Jesus Christ as a means of mocking Catholic Church bureaucrats is like celebrating the torture and execution of James Connoly because you are pissed off with present Irish Labor Party and Tade Union brureaucrats or likewise with Bobby Sands because you're pissed off at the present SF leadership. No?
In doing so, you surrender the dissident memory of Jesus, Connoly and Sands in the "Battle of the Myths" (Ched Myers)

3. I find this event, and promotions for it, objectionable, I have been physically abused in custody. I have been in custody when other prisoers were killed. I presently live with people who have been tortured in Ethiopia and elsewhere. I live in a house named after an Irish man who was tortured and died in jail in England. I know his son who was likewise tortured. I have a combat vet friend who believes he handed over Iraqis to the Americans to be tortured. Torture is not a joke! There's acentre for it's victims in Phibsboro, drop on by!

I find i objectionable, so I am objecting! This is called civil liberties and I am a civil libertarian. Like Assange, I'm from Queensland in the '70's where we value our civil liberites because we had to fight for them. Like Peter Tatchell, I'm not big on banning hate speech like yours, I'd rather have the debate...tease out and unthread the issues and prejudices.

4. As an anrchist, I am concerned about self isolating, self defeating, anti-pluralist currents in our movement, so it is with great respect that I am bothering to engage y'all on this thread.

The good folks I live with think I'm wasting my time..."what do you expect from a pig, but a grunt?"..attitude to y'all. They were not formed on the anarchist left like moi, that's why I am bothering and why I bother trotting off to the monthly @ meetings in our 'hood. We all come from somewhere and that fashions our priorities and perspective.

5. "Given the abuse and daily contempt the catholic church has held people in, in this country you should be slightly more humble...",
well that's the great dialectic isn't it? While folks were being tortured and shot a mere 90 miles from the great West Brit city of Dublin, and the Irish diaspora was running the gauntlet of abuse and discrimination, for merely being identified as "Catholics" ....you were taking your licks under the pendulum swing of an Irish Catholic state a reaction to 800 years of clonisation. No?

We gotta tanscend ya subjectivity and get a grip...(besides those swept up in the crackdown (that led to and) against Provo Republican campaign) 26 county Ireland didn't sound any worse than Queensland (that was run by corrupt Calvinist politicians and corrupt Irish Catholic cops). We all come from somewhere and all those stroies are redeemable. Or you can choose to get trapped in your story on a tapeloop....take a few steps back, get some perspective and deal with it .....stop the childish acting out. This event looks pretty childish. No?

6. "only people present from a politcial background were Anarchists"
I found the locals engaged up there very political. It depends how you define political? As an elitest, self solating, p.c. holier than thou, elitest left subculture or not.

7. "You're critique of Seomra Spraoi and Irish Anarchist"

I'd hardly call it a critique. I am not an intellectual, I'm an activist that reflects and acts again and then reflects again and the acts again. Most of my stuff here is informed guess work, what else could it be when I'm responing to anonymous posts, some celebrating necrophilia and execution as "anarchist" postitions without explanation.

Some of my stuff is from experience and relatively original ....some of it borrowed from secular anarchist critques of "@ lifestylers" " @ as a youth fad" "@dolescent anarchism", "@ as a cover for conservative indiviualism". All that ammunition and "critique" has been picked up and borrowed over the last 30+ years around the anarchist scene. "Plagarism is the basis of allculture!" (Pete Seeger's dad...at least he quoted him, I guess)

So yep this egagement with y'all is a sign of respect for y'all. Let's hope this shite doesn'y make it back to Mayo.

Related Link: http://www.dublincatholicworker.org
author by Finpublication date Wed Apr 27, 2011 08:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Unfortunately Ciaron when you wake up and re read your post you might see how I find it hard to believe that you have respect for us aside from some martyr complex where you want to help the ill guided in society - help I for one can do without....

author by Blankpublication date Wed Apr 27, 2011 09:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think further exchange of views may only lead to needless insults. Ciaron has his projects to better Irish and world society, and Irish anarchists have theirs. There can be varying motivations and metaphysical perspectives. People with similar social aims can share their efforts and determination despite metaphysical differences.

Anarchists generally dismiss other-world motivations, asserting that this is the only world and people only get one life. Christians and some others say there is a life beyond. Ciaron says he is a Catholic Christian anarchist, and the secular godless anarchists will have to like him or lump him.

Religion has been used to justify terrible atrocities down the ages, while some religious groups and individuals have stood up to injustices in the name of enlightened interpretations of religion. Mahatma Gandhi synthesised elements of Hindu, Muslim and Christian teaching to motivate his followers in their nonviolent campaigns against British rule. Memorably he also used the hunger strike as a weapon to stop Hindu-Muslim mass murder during the awful months surrounding India's independence in 1947. Martin Luther King and other black Baptists used their enlightened evangelical interpretation of the bible to motivate and mobilise the civil rights movement in America during the 1960s.

Religion and its discontents is a well-told story; so too is religion and its struggles against political evil.

author by Atheistpublication date Thu Apr 28, 2011 04:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

ciaron
your critique seems to be largely about how pathetic anarchists and others in Ireland are in the face of state support for terrorism
There is truth to this. we have certainly all rolled over and taken it up the ass in this state a lot lately.
maybe we are in the habit of doing this.
and maybe this is partly because we are used to rolling over and taking it up the ass from an early age.
and usually from catholic priests in authority.

just because the anarchists and others in Ireland have failed to adequately resist the states bad behaviour does not negate their contention that religion and all forms of unquestioning faith are historically quite dubious, not a good thing and often hijacked to control and oppress the people through their fear of death.

And just because there are a few good people like yourself doing good things who also happen to believe in fictitious god stories is not a proper argument for the validity of those stories per se, but more an argument for the fact that humans are capable of rising above their base nature and doing good stuff

I suggest you carry on being a good example and inspiration for others through your actions as you have done, and let the omnipotent deities defend themselves if they are upset by people making fun of them.

I've never understood the need for religious types to defend such entities. If they are as all powerful as you claim then they can act on their own behalf and don't need humans to stand up for them.

Yet the most foul of crimes have been perpetrated on humanity by religious types who make a virtue out of unquestioning faith in a holy book and seek to punish those who dissented in the name of some deity that was curiously not visibly bothering too much themselves about this blasphemy.

Ciaron, you may be aware that FF brought in a law here which makes blasphemy a crime with a fine of 100,000 euro. This is a clear example of the increased supression of free speech using unquestionable yet unproven religion as the excuse. It is not up to mankind to oppress each other on behalf of their deities. That is a slippery slope that leads to a bad place that we have been to again and again throughout history. Lets learn from that and let no idea to be given special protection from ridicule or cold factual analysis

Your gods if they exist can defend themselves if our views bother them.

by all means get through the day by communicating with fictitious entities if you wish. but let those all powerful entities fight their own battles. god is free to strike down seomra spraoi with a bolt of lightning, if the pseudo anarchists upset him, if he so desires. Its not for mere humans to fight on his behalf. unless of course he starts speaking to you and specifically tells you to. But thats getting into tony blair territory isn't it?.

author by Ciaronpublication date Thu Apr 28, 2011 06:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You keep building straw men out of my rebuttals
AND moving the goal posts

I enjoy Fr. Ted!
I object to the celebration of torture and execution.
I defend everyone's right to free speech and everyone's right to be young and stupid

I would be more worried about a molotov thrown by some unhinged "christian" or"muslim" enraged by this unecessary prvocation through the doors or windows of S.S. or the "God is Pig" gigs than a F.F. driven prosecution. This is the real world, this kinid of shit happens!
Is this the fight you want to pick? Is that potential price worth paying?
Why make it a public event, if not to provoke such a repsonse?

In Brisbane, which is very subtropical and generally apathetic, there were arsons on the Maoist bookshop, the CPA HQ, the (U.S. led) Trots HQ.

Whether folks are thiests or athiests does not make them more likely anarchists....see 70 years of Stalinsist experiments.

CW when it was on the ground in Dublin had no history of trying to convert folks to Catholicism, we operated with mutual respect for people's faith and no faith backgrounds on the principles of nonviolence and direct democracy. At Giuseppe Conlon House/ London we have volunteers for solidarity projects with refugees and anti-war activisty who are athiests, Buddhists, anarchists, nuns, members of the Labor Party, liberal students.

There is something inclusive/ less prosthelysiing about Catholic Worker (and you could argue Catholicism generally 1.2 billion) compared to the sectraianism of the left and protestant traditions.

The anarchist scene unnecessaily ties itself up trying to convert folks to athiesm....it's irrelevant and sef defeating! Most of the world's poor are thiests....just give it a miss and get on with the common task at hand.

I am no stranger to child sexual abuse. I was an altarboy for 8 years, the pedophile priests operating in our parish abused a number of my friends at the time. He was promoted to head the Catholic Media Office in Brisbane and was also a Special Branch informant. He eventually went to jail for other rapes.

The school I went to, and later taught at, kids were cultivated and recruited for a child porn ring. Those who eventually got busted for the ring were a high profile radio DJ on the ABC (govt. station) and the cop heading the "Stranger Danger" prgram who had a minute spot on TV every afternoon warning kids about strangers (I kid you not!)

The people raped in my extended family were raped by health professionals not church people.. This abuse and cover up shit is about a culture of deference...whether that thrives in the church, on the left, in the music and arts scene, in the dental/doctor/counsellor/educational world.
SMASH THE CULTURE OF DEFERENCE!

author by Mary Kellypublication date Thu Apr 28, 2011 19:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ciaron,

Ive been in the court system from Feb 03-until Feb 2011 when I finally got my appeal of conviction overturned. In fact I am still not clear of the court process. Most anti- war people including yourself did not see the relevance of this legal sojourn'.

I have no doubt that time will eventually show the relevance of a Court of Criminal Appeal judgment AND a unanimous jury acquittal on such direct actions. Not a bad result at all! Imagine what a movement could exist if there were enough committed people who recognised the relevance of direct actions AND court solidarity!

Thanks for the offer to call to your house, but not right now thanks. I feel that a safer, clearer and more productive exchange could ensue from a professionally mediated meeting this was agreed as a sound way forward (with other interested former Pitsops members). Your presence at such a meeting would make it a potentially richer and more integrated clear out, with a chance for all to relate, and move on. I'm asking you to please reflect on it.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sound.

But is not the catholic church the prime source of that 'culture of deference'?

Contradiction?

author by Ciaronpublication date Sat Apr 30, 2011 09:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

OK this thread could go on forever, maye it will be pre-empted by the Second Coming and I'll win the argument on default?

OPUS
"But is not the catholic church the prime source of that 'culture of deference'? "

You (and the people who organised this "Crucifixion Party" celebrating torture and execution) confuse Jesus Christ with the Catholic Church (1.2 billion people) and the Catholic Church with the intellectual teaching authority based in Rome.

The "culture of deference" is evident on this site, on "the left", in the music/ arts scene, in the punk scene and according to Roy Keane in the IFA etc etc

This culture was not promoted in the gospels and didn't really get a foothold in our movement until the 3rd. century Constantine shift...where it went from being illegal to be a Christian in the Roman empire to being illegal not to be a Christian in Rome. From no Christians joining the Roman army to you had to be a Christian to join the Roman army.

The 3rd. century shift saw the end of CRUCIFIXIONS as a means of imperial execution as Constantine replaced the fish with the cross as the symbol of this once dissident illegal movement while he was making it the imperial religiousity (replacing the pluralism of Gods the Romans were well known for collecting around their empire).

I have no problem with "intellectual authority". Was it Proudhon or Bakunin who said "when it comes to shoes, I accept the authority of the boot maker"? When I'm in Ireland, WSM would be my intellectual authority on utopian anarchism, the lads at the Vatican are my teaching authority on Catholicism (implicit in their teaching is the primacy of the "informed conscience"). I haven't got the time to read all the books and think all the thoughts...I'm glad the WSM and Vatican folks have! I will seek and take advice on these areas from them. I won't always follow their advice, but I will seek it and take it on board as I work out what I'm gona do!

RESPONSE TO MARY KELLY

My junior prosecutor had me on "google alert" right through our 3 trials, I know some cops have me on google alert and I know some BAe agents (including the retired handler from the Liverpool daze) and a lot of my enemies have me on google alert. So I don't think it is wise to process conflict on the internet.

Suffice to say a lot of trust was lost between you and us, us and you, you and the peace camp, us and the peace camp at the end of January/ start of Feb 2003 - when your spontaneous disarmament action and our more considered plowshares action went down at Shannon and the peace camp collapsed. (as consequence of these action or out of sheer exhaustion fomr the previous month as they were under resourced and under staffed under increase state repression etc etc...jury is till out on that one!)

Peace camp blamed you, you tried to blame me. It appeared you were trying (for whatever reasons??) to split our comunity on gender lines. We assessed you as a liability not an asset. We wished you the best and ceased to communicate...we did what we could for you in terms of solidarity vigils, leaflets, donations etc. But we were not prepared to organsie with you, The right to disassociation is as basic as the right to associate.

Maybe these judgments were rash and wrong, but we were all looking at major jail time. And it all worked out in the end. I was shocked by the timidity of the 26 county Irish and the anti-war movement it produced (much of the leadership joined the state and the yanks in attacking us/ Pitstops while we were banged up in Limerick Prison with no right or ability to reply). That's why I took bail at the end of Feb 03 to come out and do damage control rebut the lies and slander by the state and the anti-war bureaucrats.

"Ive been in the court system from Feb 03-until Feb 2011 when I finally got my appeal of conviction overturned. In fact I am still not clear of the court process. Most anti- war people including yourself did not see the relevance of this legal sojourn'."

That's correct, it is not an area where I would have put my energies if I had been convicted and imprisoned or given a suspended sentence. I don't think the war will be stopped by the courts or the legal process. The drift from activism to the legal proffession is not unknown in our movment Moana (B52 '91 ANZUS PLOWSHARES is now a barrister in NZ with "Maori Legal Aid"), anarcho-fem Katya "White Rose Conspiracy"'/ Vanderburg Missile disarmament has graduated in law from Harvard after doing her 5 years prison time etc etc...she represented those arrested at "The Battle of Los Angeles"

I lived and studied under Phil Berrigan. One of the last talks he gave us before we did the B52 in '91 drew from the writings of Paul and "how law is alligned with sin and death". I defered to the other Pitstops over the question of beng fully represented at trial. (Deference ain't all bad all of the time Opus!)

"I have no doubt that time will eventually show the relevance of a Court of Criminal Appeal judgment AND a unanimous jury acquittal on such direct actions. Not a bad result at all! Imagine what a movement could exist if there were enough committed people who recognised the relevance of direct actions AND court solidarity!"

Such a good result they released it on election day so it would be swamped. Congratulations on all your hard work bearing such fruition and respect for your nonviolent resistance at Shannon and in Palestine.

Yes, resistance and solidarity (not only court BUT prison and pre & post prison) is what is relevant anti-war activity. I belive, if 1 % of those who marched aginst the war on Fe 15 2003 had resisted until imprisoned and the other 99% who marched had done proactive solidarity we would have (we still can) stop the war!

You need to read Sharon Nepstead's fine analysis of the U.S. PLOWSHARES (mostly radical Catholic, 50% Catholic Workers living with the homeless pre-action) movement and the difference with the British Ploughshares movement ( mostly secular, more middle calss, which has/d a big empasis on law and see the courts being part of the solution.) The difference between ploughshares and plowshares is significant in this argument and search for understanding.

Sharon Nepstead in her recent work "Religion, War Resistance and the Plowshares Movement" (now free on the net ...)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40408179/Religion-War-Resista...ement

"Thanks for the offer to call to your house, but not right now thanks. I feel that a safer, clearer and more productive exchange could ensue from a professionally mediated meeting this was agreed as a sound way forward (with other interested former Pitsops members). Your presence at such a meeting would make it a potentially richer and more integrated clear out, with a chance for all to relate, and move on. I'm asking you to please reflect on it.
'smash The Culture Of Deference'"

It's now 8 years since those events. I would see value for two meetings conferences

1) Mediated meeting with you, Pitstops (after we have our own debriefing and meeting), and the folks around the 03 Shannon peace camp (many of who decamped to the more sympathetic Rossport community)...all these people now have different priorities 8 years. Many are no longer politically active on the ongoing war or anything else...8 years is a long time...I have had, as you can imagine, a lot more significant conflicts with whole sets of other people in the meantime :) ...so it's not a big priority for me. If someone organises it I'll try me best to attend.

2) The other conference meeting I'd like to see is with all the acquitted plowhshares, ploughshares and nonviolent disarmament groups in England Scotland Ireland - Pitstops, yerself, Loch Goil 3, Seeds of Hope women, EDO 9, Raytheon 9, B52 Fairford,...share what went well, the mostakes we made, lessons learnt and hpw to apply them in future etc etc

OR a conference with all the plowshares, ploughshares, disarmament crews including those wo got convicted and sent down.

The overall context tho is the anti-war movement is all but evaporated presently.so I can't see anything like this happening.

Related Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/40408179/Religion-War-Resista...ement
author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors


'You (and the people ...celebrating torture and death) confuse Jesus Christ with the Catholic Church(1.2 billion people).....'.

For starters, you lump me with the posters of the site, whereas i merely comment. For seconds you tar a rag-week type party to debunk religious pretension with some celebration of viciousness, rather than the pomposity-puncturing exercise I imagine it was.

Nor do I confuse the man, whose rebellion against the established high priest of Jerusalem led to his extraordinary rendition and elimination, with the manifold manifestations of the shell-company, corporate catholic, entity(there's a book worth a scan,The Entity, Eric Frattini, five centuries of secret vatican espionage). Mossad watch out.

I did not request YOUR personal relationship with the cult and its heirarchy, I observed that you advocate freedom of 'informed conscience', in the name of the institution that practises the supression of individual conscience to the dominance of the papal decree and a pyramid of clerical administraters who dictate moral authority from a selected and edited collection of the many accounts of the mans life, trial, and execution. Again, the encorporation, of the truths in the tale, into 'One True Church', rather than the opening of as much evidence and debate as would create the informed conscience you uphold. The burning of heretics down the centuries is an exact replica of the heretical excision that was JC's liquidation.

As for your expansion of the specific iissue of the deference-teaching role of the church into everything from Roy Keane to boiled eggs, I'll leave that to the jesuits, and all those who prefer minding mice on pinheads to reflecting on the consequences of their lofty abstractions on the kids who suffer this breaking down of the world into balck/white oppositions, with its results for those designated black. In Ireland, it became those who transgressed the sexual taboos of the unnaturally celebate druidhood of Rome, mainly vulnerable women and the children they produced through lack of education and patriarchal responsibility in a society where its dominant church collaborates with temporal power for its own INSTITUTIONAL ends.

author by JCpublication date Sat Apr 30, 2011 16:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm back! Took more than 3 days!

So I'm like the prosecution bwecause I say you act like a cult leader?

And you talk of men of straw!

You have a martyr complex and you are making veiled threats (imho) against Seomra.

It is impossible to debate with you seriously.

You really dont see that it is the RCC who humiliates people in Irel;and because othey are lgbtq.

Well its time to hit back against the minority! Because thars what it is.

Who are we humiliating? There are no masses of progressive catholic activists. Is there even a CWM in Ireland anymore? They keep a low profile if they exist.

We are insulting the old reactionaries such as the bishops, clergy, reactionary lay catholics which includes you. Given your comments above and veiled threats about molotov cocktails you could only be classed as a reactionary.

author by JCpublication date Mon May 02, 2011 12:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Now heres something that should really upset Ciaron. Members of the Jesus Blood Cult crucufying each other. This is truly a sick belief system when it results in such madness. Theres a vid at the link.

DEVOTEES re-enacted Jesus's crucifixion in gory scenes while millions of other less extreme faithful across the Catholic Philippines prayed with their families on Good Friday.

A handful of people are traditionally nailed to crosses while hundreds more have their backs whipped until they bleed in Asia's major Catholic outpost, to remember the day when Christians believe Jesus Christ died 2,000 years ago.

In the small farming town of Cutud, a couple of hours' drive north of Manila, thousands of tourists gathered to watch what has over the years become the biggest and bloodiest Good Friday spectacle.

Fourteen people were nailed to crosses and hundreds were whipped as they walked through the town, their blood splattering onto the ground and walls of buildings.

The most senior of those nailed to a cross, Ruben Enaje, 50, said he was going through the ordeal this year for the 25th time as a way of giving thanks to God for allowing him to survive an accident unscathed.
Well he didn't get off that cross unscathed!

cru.jpg

Related Link: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/good-friday-c...69794
author by ordinary decent sinnerpublication date Mon May 02, 2011 13:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Those people in the Philippines may be trying to eventually reach "blessed" status just like JP2. He was into the self-flagellation too.

author by Ciaron - Giuseepe Conlon House, London Catholic Workerpublication date Tue May 03, 2011 07:03author address Londonauthor phone Report this post to the editors

Responses
This party celebrating the torture and execution of Jesus Christ, has been an attempt to drive a wedge between faith based activists and athiest anarchists working on the same issues in Ireland eg. Rossport, the war, the cuts etc.
To counter this the movement needs to identify the idiots and deal with them rather than polarise activists working on joint issues....or just accept the first item on the agenda of every Irish organistaion whatever the politics is THE SPLIT.

RESPONSE to opus diablos -

OPUS - "For starters, you lump me with the posters of the site, whereas i merely comment."

MOI - Didn't do that, just stated you shared a confusion.
Lots of folks of different perspectives share a similar confusion.
My Irish Republican second cousin and Roman Abramovich (the guy who privatised Russian energy resources) think Chelsea are going to win the league. Different politics, same confusion!

REPONSE TO JC

J.C. "So I'm like the prosecution because I say you act like a cult leader?"

You pursue they same argument as the Irish state prosecution (eg "Ciaron is an egotist") - who are brighter and more resourced than you - you both fail with the argument.

"You have a martyr complex and you are making veiled threats (imho) against Seomra."

Along with the cry of "get a job", "you're an egotists", the "Martyr" is the 3rd. most popular slur that s hurled against me and othe resisters.... you again share this with the right wing and the state. Maybe you share so much with the right, because y'all are not "anarchists" but conservative individualists ........at best right wing libertarians in punk or hip clothing?

Those at S.S. who celebrate torture and execution can call themselves "anarchists" (you have the right to free speech and fantasy)..... you can call yourself "punks", "mods" or "rockers" for all I care, but all you present as, is privileged white boyz inhabiting a bubble

You have no Catholic, Muslim, Filipino, (peasant & working class) friends who you would be concerned about offending with this function. Beside your lack of their working class base, you present like the English Defence League as they go out of their way to offend Muslims over here.

I'm not making THREATS, I'm giving you an obvious HEALTH AND SAFETY WARNING........... apparently there is a lack of imagination to work it out for yourself.
The last S.S. shebeen was closed down over fire regulations, others have to reluctantly step in here and point out the obvious. ( I guess this qualifies as "instructing the ignorant" one of the "spiritual acts of mercy")
http://liturgicalyear.wordpress.com/2010/09/28/spiritua...rant/

ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO FROM WHERE A MOLOTOV MAY COME FROM....

ACT 1 - You have situated yourself as a "slumming it" elitist subculture in a poor area of Dublin (for reasons of low rents NOT as a base to organise in the local area)

ACT 2 - Many of the impoverished young folks near your centre go in and out of the courts and nearby overcrowded (shite conditions) Mountjoy Prison (an issue never on the radar of either the left or @anarchist scene the 7 years I lived in Dublin). This class of yoof get more support from the likes of Fr. Peter McVery SJ, other sections of the church - than they ever get from the left or the @ scene...that's pretty obvious!

ACT 3 - Anyways, these local lads probably don't like the look of ya in the first place AND the incursion you're making into the neighborhood,where hey were raised.

They may not be practising Catholics, but they wear their Celtic FC tops and their Grannies probably are.....so if the Grannies get wind of ya celebrating the torture and execution of Jesus Christ. (And remember the Catholic Worker pacifist position may be a papally respected position in the church, but it remains alas a minority one). The local Grannies are probably not pacifists, and if they ask the young'uns to go sort you out.
Chances are, they will. This is not me making a threat. This is not rocket science! This is staing the obvious.

But if you haven't asked why y'all unnecessarily provoke the Muslim community (while your government is helping to kill their children in their droves in Iraq and Afghanistan) with your "God is a Pig" gigs and the working class Catholic community with this GF shite and the locals of Rossport when they hear about this shite.... you really should ask yourself and your subculture why you're not asking these questions. Do you prefer the self isolation of an elitest p.c. subculture?...this is exposed by us anarchists who see the task as building a counter culture to challenge the imperial state.

"Who are we humiliating? There are no masses of progressive catholic activists. Is there even a CWM in Ireland anymore? They keep a low profile if they exist."

Catholic Worker is not "progressive" or "liberal" it is radical (Latin for "returnng to the roots"). The Irish state has spent millions of euros securing the U.S. war mahine form the Catholic Worker movement in the last 8 years. WikiLeaks has exposed that CW we were the U.S. embassy's major concern in Ireland. CW doesn't need a profile.... all we need is a rumour, a symbol, a tradition, a praxis. Presently we operate i Ireland as Keyser Sze, the state will have ti decide its security budget appropriately....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usual_Suspects

"We are insulting the old reactionaries such as the bishops, clergy, reactionary lay catholics which includes you. Given your comments above and veiled threats about molotov cocktails you could only be classed as a reactionary."

Your insults are scattergun, y'all generate a lot of friendly fire and a lot of collateral damage...
This is hw it will end for you...a knock on the door one morning....if you have isolated yourself the jail time is going to be harder. Pre-emptive policing has arrived over here, they are just testing it now, the consequences will get harsher, internment maybe around the corner...see Tom Crusie in "The Minority Report" it's already happening in London (and Dublin is always only 3-6 months behind copy catting London!)
This is just a taster for what is to come...how self isolated do you want to be when it comes???
Do you want me and other faith based activists as enemies or friends when the state comes down on your head...watch this carefully....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UscFYYCKOxg&feature=play...edded

JC "Now heres something that should really upset Ciaron. "

So this is what it's about? You haven't got the talent to be John Lennon, so you're going to be Mark Chapman, you haven't got the balls to be Jesses James so ya gona be the coward Robert Ford.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Assassination_of_Jesse..._Ford
This is unheatlhty

Your last posting is racist and classist. Filipino nurses are probably wiping the arses of your wealthy Irish elders in your shite hospitals (because your IMF sucking, U.S. WAR MACHINE serving government did bother spenfding money on infrasturcture and training Irish nurses in those long gone/ never coming again "Celtic Tiger" years. Do you have Filipino friends? they aren;t hard to find. Go to the Filipino mass on Bachelors Walk last one on a Sunday...good oneif you have a slow start to the day.

Amazing/ typical that the term "martyr" is a dirty word in your self obssessed white boy subculture. We have our martyrs Ben Linder, Larry Rosebaugh, Roger LaPorte, Rachel Corrie, Bishop Romero, Sr. Ford...folks who loved and lived life to the full that the state had to kill them. Presente!

Go to any community involved in struggle form Palestine to Colombia to West Belfast and you wil see the images of the martyrs the people the state killed and tried to erase from memory.

You have been raised in a white boy culture of privilege, easy to control with the promise of the carrot and the threat of the stick. Once you meet some muslims and Catholics and working class people..venture out of your comfort zone and meet some indigenous folks. Check out the initiation scars of the men....and ask yourself why? Catholicism, unlike your subculture, is inclusive and expansive, comparitatavely respectful of indigenous spitirtuality and culture from The Philippines to East Timor to Arizona to the Amazon...as The Guardian points out Catholicism is the only truly global phenmenon.

Mate, out here in the real world beyond the comfort zone of S.S. where people dress up and feign torture and suffering...there is real pain and suffering. If ya born a white boy you can play ya crads right and minimise your share by maximising the suffering of people of color....Muslims, Filipinos, most pracitising Catholics, the indigenous.

This book might help, I'm from the '70's when the Irish weren't white...now your generation dresses up in leprechaun hats making a pre-emptive joke of themsleves and us before the Brits can come out with an Irish joke....
"How the Irish Became White"
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/white13.htm

Related Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UscFYYCKOxg&feature=player_embedded
author by Tony - S2Spublication date Tue May 03, 2011 11:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

With a lot of that, esp. the part about the people of Erris not being impressed. I don't know anyone down here who could buy into that

shite that went on in Seomra Spraoi over the Easter, either on the pro-Shell or Protest side, because basically it was incredibly offensive

vulgar, deconstructive and ,worst of all, not the slightest bit funny, Very many of us who have faced Shell, the Guards and IRMS over

many years would be regular Church goers, with a particular focus on the ceremonies of Easter week. I personally find a lot of strength

and inner peace by just sitting in a Church on my own occasionally, and most of the local people I know who have stood with us in this

struggle would be very nmuch of the same mind. .I think that the struggle against Shell in Erris is a far more complex issue than some

of these amateur blasphemists realise; it's not just about opposing the march of Globalisation, it's an attack on everything from

tradition, culture, way of life, freedom of movement, freedom of speech, human values, and yes, Religion. Just look at Kevin

Meyer's attack on the Holy Rosary to understand this. Our beliefs and values are what define us, and I can only speak for myself when I

say that I don't take at all kindly to mock crucifixtion or the type of narrative that's being used here to justify it. If winning against Shell

means rubbing shoulders with the kind of people who think this stuff is funny, I'd rather have an oilpipe running through my back

garden.

author by Atheistpublication date Tue May 03, 2011 14:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ciaron

why do you, as a mere puny human, feel the need to defend an omniopotent being by slinging ad hominems at SS?

so much harm was done in the past by people claiming to know the mind of god and humans punishing other humans for offending their god, even though their god did not express an opinion either way.

The devil can quote scripture etc.

Leave god to defend himself. I'm sure if he/she/it can create a universe then he/she/it doesn't give a shit what a bunch of primative apes think or say and if such a phenomenally powerful being is so petty and egotistical that he/she/it is capable of being offended by a few remarks then he/she/it is well capable of taking action.

I think it is evident from your remarks that in reality you have very little faith in your own god and seem to think he/she/it so ineffectual that you yourself need to stand up and speak out on he/she/its behalf and make threatening noises to defend your god and quell the voices of those who do not exhibit the expected deference to such notions.

Exactly who do you think you are that you feel qualified to know the mind of and speak on behalf of the creator of a whole universe? Thats one hell of an ego you have there! I would never be so arrogant.

Believing in a god is a cheap way of elevating humanity from meaninglessness. Obviously we didn't create the universe, but we can still matter if we make ourselves the most important thing in it (gods children). Thats often why believing in a god appeals greatly to the self important or less humble amongst us.

Personally I think if we accepted the unimportance of humans in the vast scheme of things and that this fleeting life is all there is then we might focus our energies a little more on what really matters and on making this planet a better place to live on, instead of believing we'll get 100 virgins in the afterlife if we blow up some infidels or that we will spend eternity by gods side in some paradise if we keep our nose clean and kiss the popes ring when asked.

Humans have a problem with taking responsibility for their own actions already. religion compounds this. And it is wooly dangerous thinking of the highest order to make a virtue out of not questioning, as most religions inevitably seem to do.

humans need to take a cold hard look at their bleak reality and face the inevitability of their own death square on with a little courage.
And then start to do something to improve this life. Getting lost in happy ever after stories about gods and the afterlife then fighting over whose god is better is just avoidance of reality.

we all need to just grow up and grow a pair ciaron. there is no happy ending. just wormfood. Make the world a better place not for some fantasy reward in the afterlife but because its just the only course of action that makes any sense if this is really all there is.

we don't need a bunch of black clad paedophiles defining our laws and social norms, dead chicken waving and a holy book to tell us that

BTW I'm not a member of SS nor a white boy pseudo anarchist slumming it. I'm just a working class serf who faces his bleak reality with no crutches.

author by Ciaronpublication date Tue May 03, 2011 16:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

like to reply mate
but one of the editors on this site
posting attacks on me anonymously
took down my last response
i worked quite a lot of time on

one thing moving the goalposts
...but this boy owns the stadium

think i'll back to resisting the state
no pretensions who they're working for

take it away wobbly Utah Philips on the Catholic Worker, Jesus and Anarchy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6nzLX9gF4&list=MLGxdCw...Erujt

author by Atheistpublication date Tue May 03, 2011 16:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Yeah...probably best to leave god to defend himself and get on with some real activism.
Best of luck with that Ciaron.

Its just the ideas themselves I have a problem with not really those who hold them, although it is rather presumptuous to express offence etc on gods behalf. Just let him express his own views and fight his own battles assuming such an entity could possibly care less about such trivia.

by taking this approach, we all benefit from a broader freedom to express ourselves without being shut down on religious or blasphemy grounds. The price of this is having to ignore / put up with some stuff that might annoy us or upset us, emotive and flawed creatures that we are. (but which is really rather unlikely to bother a supreme being who creates universes!)

author by wageslave - (moderator)publication date Fri Dec 13, 2013 01:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

12/12/2013
some comments previously hidden by ex moderator P.C. have now been unhidden.
The remaining hidden comments are mainly just abusive ed commentary or complaining about (now unhidden) comments

wageslave (moderator)

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