More direct action

by Sean Fri Mar 21, 2003 15:38

Sorry - outside Belfast city hall

by Stephen Clarke Fri Mar 21, 2003 18:05

I was surprised that the assembled Trade Union activists outside Belfast's City Hall today did not march.

Unbelievable action is taking place in cities across the world, but in Belfast, even dissent forms a weary ritual.

It was left to school students to raise the temperature of dissent by taking to the street. Although this time, the police were slightly better prepared, evidently, school children speak louder than Trade Unions.

by Phuq Hedd Fri Mar 21, 2003 20:04

Amazing lead and spirit has been taken by school kids. Stay safe, remember that the police are not nice people, look out for each other and don't get caught.

by Sick of SWP lies Fri Mar 21, 2003 22:59

School students against the war SWP front didn't have 200 students outside city hall in Belfast today they had only about 50.

by Read the press Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:02

HMMM. How many did YAW have. None. What about thursday when several hundred under the banner of SAW marched from Botanic after forming road blocades or the hundreds who marched down the falls rd with teachers and home made banners from schools all over West belfast again under the banner of SAW or those who marched from the Oreamu Rd again under the banner of SAW or those who came from schools from North And East Belfast again under the Banner Of SAW, in total over 20 schools around Belfast under the benner of SAW . They then engaged in Sit downs and then marched to the US consul. All this while less that 50 school students mostly from the one school were rounded up by a frenzied Peter Hadden to listen to a few speeches in a corner. Yesterday seen hadden after the sit downs and the press going crazy because it was the second day in the row that road blocades happened running around again in a panic to find a YAW placcard then bizzarely trying to get their 35+ organiser to sit at the front of the sit down holding it. Why? because The schoolstudent Members of SAW holding their banners and placcards of shools against war were again blocking the road for a second day and the media were going mental.

By the way even the press said there were at least 150 schoolstudents. If it was YAW it would be said there were thousands.

Also although generally agreed by most apart from SP that March 5th seen at most 2500 students walkout, most of them not 'organised by anyone as many of the schools had neither SAW or YAW members there at that time. It is interesting that the SP first said several thousands came out, then ten thousand, then over ten thousand, but people just smiled when hadden said at the last coalition meeting it was 15,ooo.

Where were all these 20,000 oh sorry 15,000 'organised' YAW then apart from the fifty rounded up then huddled in a corner by hadden while SAW were marching and taking Direct Action all over the city? I wonder.

Wll done those students who took action.

by Read the press Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:02

HMMM. How many did YAW have. None. What about thursday when several hundred under the banner of SAW marched from Botanic after forming road blocades or the hundreds who marched down the falls rd with teachers and home made banners from schools all over West belfast again under the banner of SAW or those who marched from the Oreamu Rd again under the banner of SAW or those who came from schools from North And East Belfast again under the Banner Of SAW, in total over 20 schools around Belfast under the benner of SAW . They then engaged in Sit downs and then marched to the US consul. All this while less that 50 school students mostly from the one school were rounded up by a frenzied Peter Hadden to listen to a few speeches in a corner. Yesterday seen hadden after the sit downs and the press going crazy because it was the second day in the row that road blocades happened running around again in a panic to find a YAW placcard then bizzarely trying to get their 35+ organiser to sit at the front of the sit down holding it. Why? because The schoolstudent Members of SAW holding their banners and placcards of shools against war were again blocking the road for a second day and the media were going mental.

By the way even the press said there were at least 150 schoolstudents. If it was YAW it would be said there were thousands.

Also although generally agreed by most apart from SP that March 5th seen at most 2500 students walkout, most of them not 'organised by anyone as many of the schools had neither SAW or YAW members there at that time. It is interesting that the SP first said several thousands came out, then ten thousand, then over ten thousand, but people just smiled when hadden said at the last coalition meeting it was 15,ooo.

Where were all these 20,000 oh sorry 15,000 'organised' YAW then apart from the fifty rounded up then huddled in a corner by hadden while SAW were marching and taking Direct Action all over the city? I wonder.

Wll done those students who took action.

by John S Sat Mar 22, 2003 23:26

Peter Hadden General Sec of the Northern Ireland SP was seen singling out activists to the cops.

by xConorx Sun Mar 23, 2003 15:33 xconorx at hotmail dot com Belfast

The kids on Thursday put the more seasoned "activists" to shame. The sheer energy and sense of urgency that the kids brought to Thursday gathering was nothing short of inspiring and put Saturdays protest to shame.

While the numbers may have been bigger on Saturday, much needed energy and motivation was lacking. The speeches were all well and good, if a bit long winded at times, but I don't think yesterdays gathering really made anywhere near as much impact as the Thursday protest.

What was really pathetic was the attempts by certain people to help the police do their job. If people want to block the road or engage in sit-down protests who is anyone from the ICTU to stop them? It's all very well to distance yourself from certain actions if you disagree with them but to actively discourage them and help the cops by pointing out people who have chosen a different means of voicing their rejection of war is pathetic. Don't help the cops do their job! At least they can say they get paid for being twats, don't help them by doing it for free.

We need more actions, not only speeches - I wider variety of methods of the rejection of war and the system that creates such division. Importantly what we do not need is people touting on those who believe there are more ways than just speeches and strikes to oppose war.

by Fathomer - Oceanic Sun Mar 23, 2003 20:13

I am proud of you Ireland.To speak out against injustice.......however I do not support Hussein by any means. I do support diplomacy.

by J Dornan - Youth Against The War Sun Mar 23, 2003 21:54

Yet again Youth Against The War and Socialist Party members have come under serious personal attack on indymedia.
It is healthy for this movement to be critical and discuss out ideas but these attacks are written by people who have either not attended the events that they mention or have an agenda that is not connected to building a strong anti war movement.
In any case can I extend an invitation to those involved to attend the next meeting of the Stop The War Coalition in Belfast and discuss these issues.
I will be happy to post on indymedia the outcome of these discussions.

by D. Vance Mon Mar 24, 2003 00:03

Sorry but I was at the last meeting of the STWC in Belfast and what the representatives of the SP did was absolutely outrageous. They went round and round for over half an hour demanding a YAW speaker at the rally on the 22nd. Hadden led the crying/complaining and must have spoken 4/5 times on the topic. If this John is your idea of building a strong AWM then really it's a sick joke. Not only will it put off people going but it gives ICTU an escape route to bailing out of the movement.

by J Dornan - Youth Against The War Mon Mar 24, 2003 00:55

I feel sure D Vance that you will take the oppertunity at the next meeting to advance your views and that your contribution to the discussion will be helpful.
Interesting point about ICTU looking for an excuse to retreat I hope to hear you develop it at the meeting.
Wasnt at the last meeting myself, remind me did ICTU want a YAW speaker?

by Brian - SP Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:35

Being at the anti-war protest on Friday, I was disgusted to see Mr Davy Carlin of the SWP putting schoolkids out onto the road and standing off the road himself in glee at what he had acheived. No harm on ye Davy, your "work" was nothing to be proud of. What did it acheive? What good was it going to do? Would these same kids be pushed/battoned off the road? Thankfully the SP intervention stopped this from happening. I gave Mr Carlin a tirade of abuse myself. I told him he was responsible if any kid got hit or hurt by the RUC/DMSU unit that had came on the scene. Shame on you Davy, you need to grow up!!! He did call on the kids to leave the road, but only after a lot of cajoling.
Now, on this site, all I can read is SWP rants about another party, yes, the SP, that I am a member.
This disgusts me too.............Are we not on the same side, or is the SWP a state fronted organisation?????
Back to Davy.
Davy is the same boy who allowed a handful of schoolkids to be taken away by the RUC the day before, at another anti-war protest at the American Consulate in Queen Street.The SP had to secure the release of these kids, whilst the SWP stood shouting SSRUC! Very smart SWP!!!
Wise up/grow up, and use your bloody energy against BUSH/BLAIR, or have some of you SWP forgotten that campaign already???
Brian

by Dan Breen Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:25

Now the SP are even against blocking roads.

by Soairse Mon Mar 24, 2003 13:07

Is it smart for 15 year olds to be hit by battons? Why block the road? If you want action, go and "raze" the American Consulate building to the ground, or would that be too tall an order for the yellow SWP?

by True Socialist Mon Mar 24, 2003 14:47

Just been reading whats been written here and I must agree with the guy who "took the hump" with the older folks that got the school children to go out onto the road. What sensible adult would advocate 50 or so childern onto the road. I wasnt there, but by whats being said, I think you can only block roads with massive numbers.........50 is a few too little. Also, he is right when he states that those who got the kids to go out onto the road, had then taken up the responsibility of "care" for those children.
Lets be sensible and divert the energies into good solid protest against the State and the US State who are committing brutal murder in the desert!
Let Iraqi's decide their own destiny, not the US or Brit Governments!

by D. Vance Mon Mar 24, 2003 15:41

School students blockaded the road themselves in anger at the war on Iraq. Which is why we were all there Brian - are have you lost sight of this simple fact. As to students being released into the care of the SP don't make me laugh. 3 of those 'arrested' were OSF, one cautioned was the SAW organiser, the SWP had a solicitor on the spot within minutes of the 'arrests'. What was clear was Hadden was singling out activists to the cops. Touting I think we call it. Don't patronise pupils with your 'kids' comments Brian (what happened to Youth all of a sudden?). What - they walk out of school, passed teachers and Principals, march in the middle of the road - despite the surveillance of one of the most militarised states in Europe , then sit down outside the City Hall or US Consulate - then are suddenly coerced to do things by one adult.? Pathetic. You need to catch up to the militancy of school students. Clearly activism is only permitted if it involves listening to speeches by the SP.

by D. Vance Mon Mar 24, 2003 15:47

Not there yourself - how many meetings have you been at JD? Oh and no they did not want a YAW speaker - something about it being in the unaccountable hold of one group that has closed meetings, no open elections, meetings, and being conservative - see above discussion. See if you can get along to this one JD.

by Erin go bragh Mon Mar 24, 2003 16:06

Mr Vance...........you are a liar!
I was there and PH was pointing nobody out.
Why are you saying that he was?
Why are you trying to discredit PH?
What have you got to gain from slating PH?

How can you even dare try to be a Socialist?
Socialist has meaning, you are nothing but scum!

A socialist does not discredit his allies by throwing false allegations at them or about them.

Calling PH a "Tout".....your statement is very strong and totally untrue, and, I think you are worse than a tout by calling someone such a word!!!!

by 1917 - SWP Mon Mar 24, 2003 16:11

D Vance can I make one point. The arrest of OSF was entirely accidental. The poor souls got caught up in the action while on their way to a wine and cheese do in the Consulate.
Apperently Gerry had just flown back from the States for the day.

by D. Vance Mon Mar 24, 2003 17:59

Mr bragh, you obviously don't know Mr Hadden. His record of sectarianism is 2nd to none. Touting - talking to police about who causes 'trouble' is precisely what he did - how dare you deny it. However the SP's belief in the state structures is well known.
1. After trade unionists from Britain travelled over to the North and stand in solidarity with Harryville church goers, the SP attacked their presence in the main press for stoking up the situation.
2. The recent sectarianism in North Belfast esp Holy Cross was attributed (by PH) as being the result of Catholic triumphalism in the area.
3. The presence of an Army recruting stall in QUB was defended by their sole member on Queens executive.
4. On similar lines the person opposed the renaming of a hall in QUBSU after Pat Finnucane.
5. The SP boycotted the Bloody Sunday demos (until last year for some reason) on the grounds that the marches were sectarian!

by xConorx Mon Mar 24, 2003 19:16 Belfast

I saw a few people pointing out protestors to the police and helping the police. As I said before, the police get paid to be twats so we expect it from them, what's your excuse?

by Observer Mon Mar 24, 2003 19:31

The real D Vance steps into the light

by Erin go Bragh Tue Mar 25, 2003 09:51

D, whoever you are, why dont you clear off and go do some constructive political work instead of running down comrades of other parties here.

I take it that you are a sad SWP prune who fears that your little party of shouters is going to be left behind?
Tell me D, when ever has your party ever followed through with any campaign?
Firefighters?
Term time school workers?
Tell me D, how many councillors have ye?
How many TD's have ye?
What ever have ye done that can be regarded as constructive?
Tell me D,go on, I beg ye.............hahaha!!!

by Erin go Bragh Tue Mar 25, 2003 09:52

D, whoever you are, why dont you clear off and go do some constructive political work instead of running down comrades of other parties here.

I take it that you are a sad SWP prune who fears that your little party of shouters is going to be left behind?
Tell me D, when ever has your party ever followed through with any campaign?
Firefighters?
Term time school workers?
Tell me D, how many councillors have ye?
How many TD's have ye?
What ever have ye done that can be regarded as constructive?
Tell me D,go on, I beg ye.............hahaha!!!

by Erin go Bragh Tue Mar 25, 2003 09:55

The real D Vance has spotlights on him it's that obvious!! Like a fox thats been lamped.!!!

by D. Vance Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:30

Mr bragh wants me to reply - I could have done sooner but I was doing some constructive political work.
The old councillors/TDS/MP's number game. Well since electoralism is not the central focus of what we do - none. However don't get carried away by the strength of the SP elected personnel. Since the 1980's in Britain for instance you have lost at least 3 MP's and scores of councillors. This does not take into consideration the hold of reformist ideas on workers (most of those who vote for any socialist candidate would so on a reformist basis).
As to the prune attacks - sad, very sad.

In terms of constructive - I suppose we can say with certainty that we initiated the anti-war movement/ stw coalition in the North. This includes organising the first anti-war demo, won ICTU round in supporting the STW demo, putting on a coach to Shannon etc. Months before it gained common currency on the street we were organising stalls in support of Palestine, and against war on Iraq. We initiated the only 2 feeder marches to saturdays rally and the feb 15. We initiated the SAW which led walkouts in schools in Belfast.
We continue to support the firefighters, organised a successful camapign against the 11+, sent dozens of people to anti-capitalist protests in Genoa, Prague etc. OK we have no councillors in across NI, no MLA's in Stormont or no MP's in Westminister, but then - what was yer point again?

by dvance Tue Mar 25, 2003 19:45

Fir the recird D vance is not SWP. dont know who he is or what he is up to but NOT SWP

by Mags Anon Thu Mar 27, 2003 13:24 4peace at fsmail dot net

I don't get all this, esp. about Friday's road blocking protest!!! As NO spring-chicken AND one of those actually ON the road Friday, I did, indeed, see many kids. [My hat off to you kids, you did brilliant!!] However, I saw an equal number of adults, and think our contribution should NOT be devalued. For the sake of stopping this Internationally illegal, immoral, unjust and unjustifible "war" on Iraq, would you all catch yourselves on. Surely we all have the same objective. Is it not time to unite and work together - NOT bicker among ourselves.

by Wha - Minimal Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:59 Belfast

I agree with Mags. Stop the bickering, no to touting and helping cops, and up the protestors! Stay sane, stay together, stay organised...No to slaughter and robbery for petrodollars...

by Wha - Minimal Fri Mar 28, 2003 13:12 Belfast

US Multinational telecommunications companies and the Military, and 'Aid' packages which amount to no more than capital investment can go and fuck too...

by Donal Sat Apr 05, 2003 06:33 aingusyoung at yahoo dot com

Is this true?? This cannot be allowed! Rise up people and demand this does not happen!