Zionism and The Wall Of Racial Segregation

by Fintan Sat Aug 09, 2003 00:34

It's not the Jews who are racist, it's the Arabs. It's not the Jews who are imperialist, it's the Arabs. It's not the Jews who are fascists, it's the Arabs.

Anyone with a brain can see that.

by Saul J. Sat Aug 09, 2003 00:36

This thread is compromised by racism and holocaust denial. Please delete.

by mr. aryan sharon - god's chosen people Sat Aug 09, 2003 19:35

Yes I agree. This thread appears to have been authored by an Arab who is obviously a pro-Palestinain sympathiser with a grudge against the state of Israel. It should be deleted immediately ...

If not we will set the Anti-Defamation League on you ....

by JMcK Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:29

Look at the way the Zionist scum try to obliterate the truth . They cry "Holocaust denial" and other such shit but the truth is in this article. It is the truth and it hurts ! Zionists are scum and Zionism is a dispicably cruel racist system.

Shut up you scum. You are a disgrace to Jews. But then most of you are probably right wing Christians, I wouldn't be surprised these days. That might be why you harm Jews so much by associating them with this racist Imperialist system you call Zionism. Many intelligent Jews openly abhorr Zionism
and also run the gauntlet of "Holocaust denial", "Anti-Semite", etc, etc.

Zionism is racism. Israel is Imperialist and in illegal occupation. Their justification for their murder and abuse of Palestinians is based on the Bible and such crap as the " Holocaust industry" as described so well by Norman Finkelstein in his book of the same name. They thus claim a unique moral justification for their crimes in palestine against Arabs, Christians and fellow semites.

by Mike Sun Aug 10, 2003 17:57

In the US we usually use the term "racism" for just conflicts where there is a difference in race, in other words, for ONE form of conflict among the many possible (ethnic, sectarian, etc.). And for a while I thought you guys were were just using that term inappropriately but recently I came across something....

Well maybe you Europeans still DO consider people of different ethnic groups different races =- just like the Germans considered Poles, Russians, etc. to be in a different race from their own. I mean there was this piece talking about conflict in Sweeden between Swedes and Sami (Lapps) and THAT was called "racial". I've similarly noted English postings acting as if Pakistanis were of a different race. Maybe THAT is the explanation.

But back to the original article and the claim about how "separation" is unworkable and the folks over there in Israel-Palestine ought to be able to get along in one country in spite of ethnic and/or religious differences. Simple? Why don't you folks on this site tell them how you managed to accomplish that on your island. Somehow with all this tulmult going on in the Middle East, I seem to have missed the announcement that you had finally reached a peaceful settlement of your conflicts and were united into one Ireland.

by Jamie Mon Aug 11, 2003 00:25

People who use abusive terms do their side of the argument no good at all. By the way, the Zionism is racism argument has long since been disposed of. In fact, it is anti-Zionism that is racism, as Zionism is commonly accepted in the West as the self-determination of the Jewish people in their homeland.

In any case, the link is to an article from the Washington Post last Thursday on the subject of the wall.

by kokomero Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:52

Racism is attempting to divide families composed of ethnic Palestinian residents of Israel (Israeli Arabs) and their spouses from the occupied territories. In this crude attempt at Nazi-style eugenics, the Israeli government intends to expel all of those spouses of such Israeli citizens not prepared to sign an oath of allegiance to the state of Israel.

Such oaths of allegiance and apartheid (penal laws) will ultimately fail as any Irish citizen will tell you.

Not only is this Israeli law this racist, as it applies only to Palestinians/Arabs, but one wonders how it is constitutional in Israel which claims to be a democracy. With laws such as this it has no right to claim that it is any better than its neighbours, in fact if anything it is worse in that the Israelis/Jews should know better.

And before the Zionist apologists get started with the excuses over security concerns, Israel already has legislation in place which has allowed over 6000 Palestinian political prisoners to be interned indefinitely (some for over 20 years) without trial, so they don't need this law for security purposes. They need this law to divide Arab couples and prevent Israeli Jews from being outbred by their second-class Arab "co-citizens".

by iosaf Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:53

you have made the point this morning I wished to make. I learnt of this new marriage law this morning, and like lots else today it makes me sick.
In the 1930s throughout Europe inter-racial and inter-ethnic marriage bans were introduced and the main victims were the Jewish peoples.

by Mordechai Mon Aug 11, 2003 14:17

Not relevant to this thread but never mind. No-one in Israel is crazy about this law but it is fact that nearly 50 Israeli deaths in the last couple of years are attributable to murders committed by Palestinian terrorists who fraudulently took advantage of the former free marriage laws. The law's purpose is simply to save the lives of the innocent. If the murders of innocent Jews stop it can be repealed, especially as it is only valid for one year at a time, and must be reviewed annually.

by Mordechai Mon Aug 11, 2003 14:21

Inherent hostility to Israel is simply good, old fashioned anti-Jewism in another disguise.

by kokomero Mon Aug 11, 2003 15:22

And before the Zionist apologists get started with the excuses over security concerns, Israel already has legislation in place which has allowed over 6000 Palestinian political prisoners to be interned indefinitely (some for over 20 years) without trial, so they don't need this law for security purposes. They need this law to divide Arab couples and prevent Israeli Jews from being outbred by their second-class Arab "co-citizens".

This comes against the backdrop of legal recognition for same sex Jewish marriages. Obviously there is nothing wrong with same-sex marriages, but its ironic to see the two pieces of leglislation introduced more-or-less at the same time. One progressive and the other repressive.

Frankly I am disgusted but not surprised at Israels tactics. The only thing certain is that they will fail, but not without having first caused a great deal of additional suffering to Israeli Arabs whose only "crime" is to have married a Palestinian from the occupied territories.

While you're at it Mordechai, perhaps you would like to explain how preventing a married couple from living together and having children will protect Israeli civilians from shelling and suicide bombers? I am really interested to see what kind of logical knots you manage to tie yourself up in the effort.

by Mordechai Mon Aug 11, 2003 16:28

The marriage laws were abused by Palestinian terrorists to gain entry to Israel proper and murder people. This is the only mischief aimed at by the new temporary law. Do not seek to paint a different picture that does not accord with the facts.

by kokomero Mon Aug 11, 2003 17:18

Mossad agents were caught in Jordan a few years ago while travelling on forged Canadian passports after a failed assassination attempt.

However, neither the Canadians nor the Jordanians responded by preventing their citizens from marrying Israelis, nor did they prevent Israelis from travelling to their countries.

According to CNN:

Captured Mossad agents return to Israel

Two agents from the Mossad, Israel's top secret spy agency, reportedly tried to kill Mashaal by injecting him with poison. The agents were captured by Jordanian officials; Mashaal survived.
Unrepentant Netanyahu: No compromise on terror

The assassination attempt angered not only Jordan but also Canada, because the Mossad agents were reportedly carrying forged Canadian passports.

by dagda Mon Aug 11, 2003 17:44

Remember the Jewish Victims -Forget the Goy Victims Dept.

"Reports over the weekend said about 60 Palestinians were arrested last week after the (Israeli) army killed eight people in Nablus..." -N.Y. Times, Aug, 7, 2001

It is standard media policy to quickly "forget" the names of Palestinian victims. The NY Times in the citation above is referring to the July 31, 2001 assassinations in Nablus that killed six Palestinian adults and two little Palestinian brothers: Bilal Abu Khader, 8, and Ashraf Abu Khader, 5. But their names, age and relationship are not given. They are lumped into a generic mass of "people killed..." Their names were provided in an Aug. 1 NY Times report. But merely six days later these little brothers have become already anonymous in the Aug. 7 edition of the NY Times. In 55 years Jewish victims of the Nazis have not become anonymous in the pages of the NY Times, but six days is all it takes for Palestinian child-victims to vanish down the Manhattan memory hole.

Jewish victims are not forgotten by the corporate western media. These media are always certain to commemorate Jewish victims. For example, the Associated Press reported on Tuesday, Aug. 7, 2001, "Tuesday's shooting was just a few miles from where a pregnant Israeli woman, Tehiya Bloomberg, 40, was shot and killed Sunday night."

Had the Bloomberg woman been a Palestinian, the AP would not have reported her gender, age, pregnant condition or name two days after her death. She would have been just a "Palestinian shot Sunday night." It's easy to forget nameless victims, but Ms. Bloomberg's memory will live in the pages of the NY Times and the dispatches of the AP because she was Jewish. Bilal Abu Khader and Ashraf Abu Khader don't rate commemoration because they are victims of Jews and according to the prevailing doublethink, it is "anti-semitic" to recall such victims, even if they were helpless Arab children.

by Mordechai Mon Aug 11, 2003 21:40

1) It's a stupid comparison, as the Mossad agents did not gain access to Jordan through marriage, nor are their activities a threat to the Jordanian population at large.

2) There are just as many instances of Israeli victims being anonomised or ignored in the media as Palestinian ones, if not more so.

by kokomero Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:27

In 1) you state that the Mossad agents did not gain access to Jordan through marriage, ie they didn't need to.

Similarly Palestinian terrorists do not need to marry those resident in Israel to gain access, and in any case a known terrorist registering a marriage would completely remove the element of surprise and leave themselves open to even more scrutiny and/or surveillance.

Therefore the Israeli anti-Palestinian marriage law is completely spurious when it comes to "security" and is aimed at breaking up Palestinian families and denying them their fundamental human right to choose a partner and have a family, and represents the worst type of racist law imagineable.

The Israelis/Jews should know better than to go down this path!

by Mordechai Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:54

Well, they weren't known terrorists and they did murder innocent civilians. This is a proven fact.

On the subject of the wall, we don't have murders committed inside Israel by infiltrators from the Gaza strip for the simple reason that that territory is completely closed off by a security fence.

The wall, as you put it - in fact in many places, its just a fence, builds on this experience and is designed to ensure the same security benefit.

by Sarah Wed Aug 13, 2003 05:23

They're stupid, because the more they bomb, the quicker the security fence will go up.

by kokomero Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:11

The really stupid thing here is the Israeli government trying to steal Palestinian lands and imprison them on the assumption the world would not notice it.

Another example of crass stupidity is the Israeli attack killing two Hammas members who were on ceasefire.

From this and other Israeli actions such as the aggressive overflights of southern Lebanon etc. etc. that Israel has no interest in a ceasefire as this slows up the building of the wall and the Anschluss of the West Bank.

by Mordechai Wed Aug 13, 2003 14:11

The so-called Hamas ceasefire is a fraud. By the way, it is Hamas that is committed to Israel's total destruction.

by kokomero Wed Aug 13, 2003 16:32

until the Israelis stupidly assassinated two of their members provoking the backlash the Israeli right wished for.

The fact is that war is better than peace for the Israelis as it allows them perfect cover to expropriate yet more land from the Palestinians so that they can point to the huge cost of dismantling settlements as an excuse for holding onto land when pressured by the UN and the International community.

The wall is not about security, it is about making living conditions intollerable for Palestinians, whom right wing Israelis hope will leave.

As for Hammas or others being committed to the destruction of Isreal, BIG DEAL, I'm sure Sharon & Co. are really worried at the threats of a few loonies when they have their fingers on the buttons that control 200+ nukes and one of the largest and best equipped armies in the world.

Do us a favour and drop this excuse and save it for the Americans or other gullible people around the world, it is frankly not credible any longer.

It is Israel has both the means and the committment to pushing Palestinians out of the West Bank and into Jordan as many of your politicians have already suggested.

by Mordechai Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:27

You're being disingenuous and are obviously an anti-Semite.

by kokomero Thu Aug 14, 2003 13:39

I despise name calling as it is the last refuge of those who don't have an intellectual leg to stand on. Try arguing your case like an adult and you might get some respect.