Murder of Nick Berg

by Salah Wed May 12, 2004 14:12

Nick Berg was part of the US led coalition which is attempting to bleed Iraq dry,
with no concern for the effects on the Iraqi people.

Whether civilian or not, he was scouting for the leftovers of a devastating
campaign which began decades ago with British occupation through to US led
sanctions and this current illegal invasion.

Nevertheless, he did not deserve to die in this fashion. No one does.

No doubt the slaughter will continue on both sides. Until the middle-east is free
from brutal occupations there will not be, and should not be unilateral peace.

by Me! Wed May 12, 2004 14:18

Listen to what the killers said - their's is not a war against the Iraqi occupation - it is against the west as a whole. These people will not be happy until all infidels are dead, irrespective of where they are. The world will not be at peace until these Islamofascists are exterminated

by Joe Wed May 12, 2004 14:35

This politics of the last atrocity would be a lot more convincing AP if you were here last week denouncing what was coming out of the prisons. You weren't so it seems to you that Nicks head is simply another political football to be kicked around in the battle for 'hearts and minds'.

You should step back and consider what the timing of the execution actually means. It makes obvious that while you and other right wingers think the battle for hearts and minds can still be won in the west in Iraq you have lost. And you have lost just as you lost in Vietnam because you imagined that massive military power could impose a solution on what was a political problem. You shows of strength in Fallujah and in the prisons have not won the war, they have lost it.

I've been following the Iraqi bloggers over the last months. Many started out ambivalent about or even supportive of the war. Not now. They represent what you might expect to be the most pro-western sector. Now this is what they are writing

"There was a time when people here felt sorry for the troops. No matter what one's attitude was towards the occupation, there were moments of pity towards the troops, regardless of their nationality. We would see them suffering the Iraqi sun, obviously wishing they were somewhere else and somehow, that vulnerability made them seem less monstrous and more human. That time has passed. People look at troops now and see the pictures of Abu Ghraib… and we burn with shame and anger and frustration at not being able to do something. Now that the world knows that the torture has been going on since the very beginning, do people finally understand what happened in Falloojeh?"
http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

The tragedy here is that US intervention has not simply killed over a million Iraqis since 1991 but created a situation where the road to power for the Islamists lies through bloody beheadings. That is what the timing is, a realisation that it is no longer a question of convincing Iraqis that they should resist the occupation but now one of who can place themselves at the head of that resistance. You have taken a secular country with near 1st world living standards ruled by a brutal dictator, killed one million of its people and now promise to return a devestated and fundamentalist 3rd world country ruled by a bloody dictator.

So what should you do now? Follow the advice of the blogger
"I sometimes get emails asking me to propose solutions or make suggestions. Fine. Today's lesson: don't rape, don't torture, don't kill and get out while you can- while it still looks like you have a choice... Chaos? Civil war? Bloodshed? We’ll take our chances- just take your Puppets, your tanks, your smart weapons, your dumb politicians, your lies, your empty promises, your rapists, your sadistic torturers and go."

by prankster Wed May 12, 2004 15:03

I find it very difficult to feel sorry for Mr. Berg when the link below shows what american intervention has done for the children of Iraq. He was a grown man who knew what he may have been letting himself in for, on the other hand, these childrens lifes were destroyed before they were even born. So before you go harping on about how despicable it was for one yankee to have their head hacked off, think about how despicable it is for the government of your country to destroy the genes of these children and of many generations yet to come. The use of depleted uranium by the US is slow genocide against people who were already at their wits end. Is it any wonder that there are people in Iraq prepared to carry out such atrocities against 'civilian' contractors, when their children have been killed slowly over the past ten years by sanctions and DU? I would think that if I were an Iraqi right now, I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about US contributions to the Iraqi society, including their own protege, a certain Saddam Hussain. So piss off.


>http://www.ericblumrich.com/pl_lo.html

by Frank C Wed May 12, 2004 15:07

What it comes down to is "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind".
Pity though that Rightous pragmatist is selective in what he condemns. The whole thing is horrific for all.

by David Wed May 12, 2004 15:22

Somebody breaks into a persons to steal his posessions and brutally kills the occupant as he tries to defend his home

or somebody breaks into a house and is brutally killed by somebody defending his home.

by kokomero Wed May 12, 2004 15:32

Because Neil Berg's murder has been turned into a smokescreen to obscure the appaling human rights record of the Bush administration.

This senseless killing could not have come at a better time for Bush, or a worse time for the Iraqi people suffering under occupation.

The vacuum left by Bush in not apologising and not firing Rumsfeld has now, regrettably and needlessly, been filled by Al Quaeda.

Any idiot including those in Bush's oil-junta could see this one coming, and there is little doubt that all of the remaining hostages will be butchered on the alter of financial self-interest in a similar manner if Bush decides to tough it out in the face of worldwide revulsion against the behaviour of a so-called "civilised" nation (USA) in Iraq.

by iosaf the ipsiphi - "I am now the provisional Q" tous jours tous jours tous les jours a la liberté! Wed May 12, 2004 17:06

he is not as rightous pragmatist said the leader of Iraqi Al Qaeda.
Iraqi Al Qaeda is a construction,
His accepted profile was left here by me at the link together with the instructions for claiming the reward for his capture
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63446&condense_comments=false#comment62167
to say he is "Iraqi Al Q" is to just be convenient.
If he is Al Qaeda, then UFF, UVF, Glasgow rangers football club and the DUP are the same, as PIRA are the INLA as well as being the Irish Independence war veterans and Loyal Order of Hiberians and the Stickys to boot.
You know these people may share things in common, but you also know they are not the same.

on Jan 29th when the representatives of Irish Government were asked to vote against the start of this conflagoration of terrorist conflict, which now stretches from the Balkans to the Kashmir, a cartoon was published here:-
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=25872
the link between AlQ which the post Sept 11, very paranoid and psychotic Bush just knew existed.

The placing of Mr Nick Berg in an orange jumpsuit is an obvious reference to Camp X. I doubt it was reference to Peter Seller's movie "The Party" in which an Indian actor attending a Texan billionaire's hollywood starlet party, ends up drugged, in a bright orange jumpsuit.

Now to the men who killed him who's organisation is just one the multitude of well armed, well angry enemies of the West now,
There is no difference between Bush and Kerry, nor is there a difference between Yankee and Dixie, for them there is no difference between a southern democrat and a northern democrat. For them there is no difference between the British graves in Palestine yesterday defaced which date from the protectorate, and the synagogue cemetary of Prague which is defaced every month.

And why should there be?
Very few people here in Ireland can pronounce their names, and very few realise
that this War, is not be won, with more soldiers, unless the endgame is the complete genocide of all angry young muslims in the World.

Last night the Morrocan authorities arrested 2000 angry young men and women. They aren't AlQ either. Their "fluid extremist islamist terrorist organisation" didn't exist before Bush went in to Babalon. Last night when they were arrested they were a theoretical six hours from Ireland.
Repeat :- their org. did not exist a year ago, it is now creditied with the most serious threat to Spanish and EU security. It's a pretty rapid turn around isn't it? Only two summers ago, Aznar sent a naval vessel to retake Parsley islands and wave the biggest Spanish flag ever from his naval cadet school in Madrid. How confident then, were the jingoists of the west.


Those who voted to support this war, have blood on their hands, their conscience, and now they're paying top whack for the Oil as well, and they sadly have no idea how terrorist conflicts are started, grow and finish.
Maybe they are too ashamed or prejudiced to look at their own history and learn some lessons?
But no.
They think sending more troops and tanks and bombs to Iraq and putting more men behind the wire-
will give us Peace in Our Time.

"we told you so".

Be First in a Wood
and Last in a Bog.

¿what will become of us, we who protested, wrote, researched, warned, we who are so horridly vindicated?
¿are to be victims for their stupidity and arrogance as well?

For the worst thing is, that Mr Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi / Ahmad Fadil Nazzal Al-Khalayleh
and all those conveniently termed "AlQ" in your newspaper don't care to see a difference between them and us either.

by doctors of spin in election run up time - You can only steal an election once. The next one has to be bought. Wed May 12, 2004 17:42

asking:-

why was nick berg in a US prisoner uniform?
did that nasty man, who is missing, put aside some money to buy an orange suit for the video? Remember 35,000$ from Ossama so they say in 2001. That's seven years fairly good living in the middle east. It would buy you a mercenary defence contractor for two whole weeks.
hmmmm.
Meanwhile, the Brit (Hun) are maintaining that the pictures of them torturing prisoners are faked.
But the video of "looks a bit dykey for Dixie" little Miss England, (not engurland) who not only is a sadistic type of "looks a bit dykey" but SMOKES! is geniune.

by Gaillimhed Wed May 12, 2004 18:04

Innocent victim. No more , no less.
Electronic engineer(conmmunications), age 26. Civilian. Unarmed.
Went to Iraq to try and score a reconstruction contract off the CPA.
Failed to get work.
Ended up in detention, held by iraqi police, then by US military, delaying his return home for two weeks, then picked up by Al Quaeda. They stated that they tried to exchange him for the release of iraqi Abu-Ghraib prisoners but the CPA refused. The hostage takers then carried out their threat of execution.
Lurd to Iraq with the prospect of lucrative reconstruction contracts (obviously Mr. Berg wasnt a Republican party contributor) and then held without charge and dumped back onto the streets of baghdad with no assistance, and finally ignored by the authorities who could have secured his release.
Mr. Berg was repeatedly betrayed by his own countrymen, his government , and now by the media, and people like 'righteous pragmatist' who couldnt give a damn about human suffering until it gains propaganda value in support of their viciously one sided, 'self righteous' and 'pragmatic' approach to life.
Shame on You and shame on the illegal war, occupation, torture and humiliation you defend.

by Albo Wed May 12, 2004 19:08

There's been sickening murders on both sides. This is another one.

by John Hawkins Wed May 12, 2004 20:50

The slaughtering of Nick Berg is one small step for terrorists and a major leap for the West’s encounter with Jihadism. The videotape, posted on the Ansar website, is one of many horrifying acts perpetrated by the followers of Osama bin Laden. It has also become a shameful benchmark in the West’s liberal media reporting.

The Abu Ghraib disaster, the behavior of few bad apples within the U.S. armed forces, triggered this major development that will influence the way citizens look at al-Qaeda's war on Americans. September 11 brought Mohammad Atta into the collective memory of this country and the international community, but May 11 will keep Abu Musab al Zarqawi in that same memory as one of the most cruel enemies of innocent civilians anywhere. The terrorist fugitive’s name is the title of the horrendous video showing Berg’s beheading.


Nick Berg's life was simple. Out of Philadelphia, he sought a job in a liberated Iraq, or so he thought. He trusted his government, and trusted the politicians of his country. He traveled to help Iraqis and establish a personal link with Iraq's civil society. But he was obstructing the spread of Jihad. He became a lonely Kafir (infidel), and found himself on the wrong side of dar el Harb (the war zone as conceived by the Islamists). And as such, he was slaughtered by the long sword of al Zarqawi. The pictures of his murder will circle the world – and they deserve to overshadow the Abu Ghraib photos.

In the American detention center that grabbed world attention and ignited a self-whipping crusade in the U.S., men were shown naked, piled up and humiliated. But because American is a free and democratic society, such acts of humiliation and abuse are abhorrent to American people everywhere and come to be quickly judged and condemned. This is because Americans value life and live in an open society which exposes its own injustices. The rights of detainees are sacred in America, even if these detainees are terrorists and have taken innocent lives.



At the Abu Ghraib of jihad, however, innocents are slaughtered at will at the discretion of unholy warriors. In the al Zarqawi "detention centers," there are no laws, there are no codes, and there is no humanity; only a cult of death exists that demands the slaughter of innocents and perpetuates itself without justice or reflection.



Unfortunately, some among us may have fuelled the blood fiesta that was shown on the website. While Abu Ghraib has now become another way in which terrorists can legitimize killing innocent people, liberal and anti-American voices from this end of the world re-perpetrate this horrid logic, excessively assessing the so-called impact of the Iraqi soldiers abuse by their guards and declaring that the "reactions will be violent and bloody." In other words, they morally legitimized these bloody acts by seeing them as mere responses, not actions that are in line with a culture of death and hatred. So when the slaughter of Berg took place and was posted online, these same voices rushed to establish a moral equality between Abu Ghraib and the savage beheading of an innocent young man. But no such equality exists.



To start with, the assessment that all people in the Middle East misunderstood America and despised its image as result of the photos was wrong. At a media summit at the State Department last Friday, and while Secretary Rumsfeld was under heavy shelling in Congress, U.S. officials learned from two dozen Arab and Mideast media people that "many opinions in many segments had different concerns in the region."



Those who are anti-American - including al-Qaeda sympathizers - will take the pictures to the zenith of exploiting hatred. One Mideast participant told the Foreign policy officers "if you tell those radicals that the Arab world will react violently, the Jihadists will react on behalf of Arabs and Muslims, but without their consent." Many participants, from different religious and ethnic background, warned U.S. officials not to give the terrorists meat for their diet.



In reality, many people in the Middle East understand that American values vanished in the Abu Ghraib detention center, but that this does not reflect the U.S. initiative in the greater Middle East. Apart from al Jazeera and the Jihadi web sites, the people of Iraq generally felt embarrassed for the US.



For Kurds, mainstream Shiites and democratic Sunnis, it remained clear: the weakening of the U.S. role would be a catalyst for the return of Baathism and the surge of Wahhabism. For them, Abu Ghraib is a passage in a much wider chapter: the transition to sovereignty. Iraqis understood that, but the carriers of petite politics on these shores did not and refuse to. By developing a crisis of so-called immorality in the American military, leftists try to make the American public believe in a widespread systemic problem that is being responded to by Jihadists.



But the beheading of Nick Berg cannot be understood as something that America caused. Abu Musab al Zarqawi ordered the kidnappings of Americans and others months ago. Before and after Fallujah’s last episode, the terrorists resorted to "collect" the victims. On one of their audio websites, they called them "assembled sheep" (Tajmeeh al khawareef) who were to be "sacrificed" at will.



Thus, whether Abu Ghraib happened or not, al-Qaeda was building its human ammunition depot. Berg's ordeal was not a direct result of Abu Ghraib. Al-Qaeda does not care when prisoners are mistreated. For them, the big picture is to weaken and humiliate the U.S. and to prevent the rise of an Arab democracy. This is why al Zarqawi stops at nothing to create chaos and fear in the region so as to undermine American efforts. But the Western Left ignores this dynamic and, as a result, steps into al-Qaeda's trap - and helps to cause additional bloodshed in Iraq.

by Drbinoche Wed May 12, 2004 22:00

So where pre-tell is Innocence defined in Post-War Iraq. I mean, the murder of Innocent Civilians is Abhorrent to you guys and I agree, its wrong and should never happen, but the murder of any American or Coalition person on Iraq is not. I have yet to see one of you actually fully condone the murder of Mr.Berg, you have all said how horrible it is, but its nothing compared to yada yada. C'mon, admit it, its a horrible thing to do, its horrible to happen to any innocent person, which BTW is what Mr-Berg was. Read about him, he was in Iraq trying to help rebuild the Communications network of the country, well Jesus by your rationale you would imagine he was a Speical Forces/CIA general!!! He had previously done aid work in Ghana, leaving all there for the people, so hes obviously a charitable person, not a murdering scumbag. And what does he get for trying to help these people, he gets kidnapped by someone who is not a representative of the Iraqi people and for the whole world to see, he is paraded as cattle.

Do any of you honestly think this will force America out of Iraq?? Do you imagine America will take things lighter in iraq, or will they be trying to find away to get tougher, while making it difficult for media to see?? Do you think the Iraqi people in America are safer or worse now??

Some of you seem to believe that coz he was an American and not expressly invited to Iraq he was a fair target. Well hell then you guys are in as must trouble, you were not expressly invited to Iraq and I am sure there are people in Iraq who do not want the NGOs and stuff like there, so therefore you guys better watch yourselves and your friends.

Yes many innocent people were killed in Iraq by American attacks, American Weapons, and Coalition actions, but does that mean that the BRUTAL murder of an American is lessened by it.

No matter whether you argue the death of the Four Security Experts in Fallujah was justifiable, coz you feel they were mercenaries, Nick Berg was NOT a Mercenary in any way, sahpe or form. He was an innocent man murdered by a bunch of idiots who have NO idea what they have just invited on the Iraqi people, whom they are PRETENDING to be helping.

Its gonna get worse for the Iraqis now, coz of this action.

by Caliban Wed May 12, 2004 22:05

What's all this about the murder rap ?

C'mon the guy was just another bit of collateral damage in the Clash of Civilzations .....

by Tony Blur Thu May 13, 2004 01:16

1 American prisoners in iraq don't wear orange clothing. This prisoner is obviously and American prisoner in a US prison.

2. The head the "killers" hold up is obviously a wax head as a real one would be dripping blood and covered in perspiration after such a terrible ordeal.

3. Al Qaeda operatives in Iraq wear a completely different uniform. Generally all white with a green head band and an explosive belt. It is also highly unlikely that the tall one would be wearing a Snoop Doggy headband.

4. As his death approached Nick was heard to scream and squeal like a pig and as we know all Americans a righteous heroes and would never "lose their blute" like a little girl in Abu Gharib prison.

5. The Al Qaeda men had their boots tied in a non-Al Qaeda regulation manner.

6. "Al Zarqawi" used a 8" bowie knife from the "Winchester Hunting Lord Spring catologue" (6.99) and we all know they use box cutters.

These photographs are undoubtedly fake. In fact nobody in them probably never even ever died. In fact we're not at all sure that anything at all indeed did at all happen so why don't you all go and have a nice cup of tea and forget about those nasty pictures that you probably never even ever did actually ever see at all........there now.

by Hmmm Thu May 13, 2004 02:41

what your reaction would have been if the US had denounced the Abu-Ghraib photos as fakes!

by Deirdre Clancy - Pitstop Ploughshares Thu May 13, 2004 03:41

With regard to the following point by "John Hawkins".

"The Abu Ghraib disaster, the behavior of few bad apples within the U.S. armed forces, triggered this major development that will influence the way citizens look at al-Qaeda's war on Americans. "

I am sick to the stomach of hearing apologists for this latest manifestation US foreign policy argue that the prison torture photos are down to the behaviour of "a few bad apples". This is rubbish. Amnesty has been trying to highlight human rights issues around the plight of Iraqi prisoners under the occupation since the start. The Red Cross, which has no axe to grind and is not known for having any political agenda, has stated that the torture is "systemic" throughout the whole of the detention system run by coalition forces. The whole system is rotten and corrupt to the core, and it filters from the top down. Most organisational psychologists will tell you that a sick, corrupt organisation invariably has sick, corrput people at the top. I detest what happened to Nick Berg; it is a brutal act. However, until you pro-war people can tell me why there are dozens of unexplained deaths of prisoners in Iraqi jails, and with what rationale the occupiers reckon they have the right to ignore the Geneva Conventions, you have no business taking the high moral ground about the atrocities of al-Quaida.

The regime in Iraq, brutal as it was, had nothing to do with 9/11. The civilians of Iraq, having suffered under a dictatorship which was propped up by Rumsfeld and his cohorts for many years, now have to suffer the after-effects of yet another US-led attack, while the coalition hires ex-Baa'th Party Generals to "keep the peace". The hypocrisy and the doublethink we are being subjected to is unthinkable. We are living in a world where "fighting for freedom" is the rhetoric, while the reality is a bloody war, DU which will give Iraqi children birth defects for generations, cluster bombs blowing up schoolkids, and systematic torture from the self-proclaimed harbingers of "freedom", and "peace". Truly, we are living in a world turned upside down. Orwell couldn't have made this stuff up; it would have been too far fetched.

Rumsfeld and Saddam Cosying up, 1983

by kokomero Thu May 13, 2004 10:13

The behaviour of the US soldiers in torturing and in some cases murdering Iraqi and Afghan prisoners is not confined to a few bad apples.

Actually, 911 was used by the Bush oil-junta as a pretext to round up and torture (to death if necessary) their political enemies in the time-honoured tradition of US-backed military dictators in Greece, Turkey, Pakistan, Chile, Argentina etc. etc.

The decision to facilitate torture and murder was decided at the very highest level in Bush's junta, ie by Bush and Rumsfeld, and was facilitated by their declaration that all of those captured in Afghanistan were "unlawful combattants", placing them outside the rule of International law.

Furthermore the Afghan hostages were then put beyond the reach of the International Red Cross and Amnesty International, in the middle of a US military base, surrounded by a country hostile to the US presence on their territory (Cuba) in a deliberate effort to:

a). facilitate torture
b). maintain secrecy about their torture by refusing access.

Of course once the pattern of systematic torture, and impunity, was established, it was inevitable that it would spread throughout the American military engaged in the so-called "war on terror".

In fact the "experts" from Guantanamo have been sharing their expertise with those in Abu Grahib and elsewhere through the provision of training!

Even on the most cursory investigation this is obviously not a bunch of bad apples as:

1). It was sanctioned at the top level
2). It is happening at multiple sites worldwide
3). There is documented exchange of prisoners, personnel, methods and training between these sites which in turn must be authorised by higher authority
4). Information is collated by US securocrats from multiple sites to be concentrated and passed up the chain to Bush and his junta. Again here it will have been evident where and to some extent how the information has been gathered.

To guard several hundred inmates in Guantanamo, and probably several thousand worldwide means that there are perhaps 10,000 American personnel and external contractors if we assume a five to one ratio of prison guards to captives.

It can be seen therefore that this is a massive worldwide enterprise driven from the top, legitimised at the top and aimed at gaining intelligence by whatever means necessary with the "gloves off".

And the funny thing is, IT ISN'T WORKING!

In fact the Bush junta's policies are fatally flawed and guaranteed to feed Arab/Muslim hatred of the US worldwide!

As Mao said freedom fighters are fish in the sea, and the Americans rather than draining the sea (by attacking the root causes of terrorism) have decided to add petrol to the sea and set fire to it!

by avi H. Thu May 13, 2004 10:18

None of you brilliant people picked up on the essential fact that, like Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg was picked on because he was a Jew as well as being an American.

by Stan Thu May 13, 2004 12:27

Avi, the holocaust must be starting again!

Lets go and kill some more palestinians!

by dubya Thu May 13, 2004 12:59

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1215698,00.html

by Khalid - Al-MuhajirounThe Voice, The Eyes & The Ears of Muslims Thu May 13, 2004 13:54 P.O. Box 349 London N9 7RR 07956 950 124, 07956 600 569 or 07960 921 614

The photographs of female soldiers carrying out despicable abuses against Muslim men should not surprise us. The West preaches equal opportunities for men and women in all spheres of life including within the realm of the military yet, evidently, we find that these oppressed women of the U. S. have not achieved a great deal. They remain undignified, promiscuous, without honour and subjugated by their male counterparts. They carry out lewd acts without any hesitation proving themselves to be worthless, subordinate whores, a position that they have supposedly struggled to change through the years of the women’s movement, especially within institutions such as the army.
Whether in a bizarre attempt to achieve an element of masculinity or simply succumbing to their sexual desires, the depravity and torture carried out by these women is nothing but a display of the degenerative behaviour that emanates from man-made systems such as democracy which heralds the concept of freedom. The freedom to live according to one’s whims and desires, a freedom in which man dictates what is right and what is wrong according to his own instincts serving his benefit and interest.
So do not be shocked at what you see, remember this is typical of the kuffar (non-Muslims). Unlike the Muslims who are an Ummah of dignity and Izzah, these women are part of the Ummah of pornography, sexual exploitation, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, lesbianism and paedophilia.
The way in which the so-called ‘lady’ looked at the naked prisoners without blinking an eye, the way in which she smiled at the camera while a naked, beaten and humiliated man begged for mercy next to her, the way in which she posed as her captive probably thought of how death would be better than such degradation, are telling of the values instilled into its people by nations run on the man made and base concepts of promiscuity (also known as liberalism), self-satisfaction and selfishness (known as freedom) and dictatorship (also known as democracy).
It is therefore no wonder that despite all the anger and condemnation against the atrocities committed by the US and UK in the Abu Ghuraib prison, done incidentally in the name of bringing women’s rights and civilisation: Abu Ghuraib is ironically the best propagation of the kind of civilians and society that Iraq would produce were it to abandon the perfection of God’s law in the Qur’an and the teachings of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) and instead embrace the ideology of anarchy and confusion.
Without the system of Islam - where men and women are segregated, where men and women cover their nakedness and thereby minimise any desire for sexual depravity, where pornography and the use of the human body as a commodity is forbidden and where alcohol and other such moral immunisers are absent – the society does not suffer from these diseases of man made law. No wonder that Islam is the fastest growing Deen in the world, including the West, especially amongst young western women.
Undoubtedly, the images that we have all seen over the last two weeks, and those that we have yet to see, will only strengthen the Muslim resolve. The crude face of the west has been exposed and Muslims will not be fooled by Bush and Blair's empty apologies. Hatred for the West and man made law has already intensified and this will manifest itself throughout the world in the support of Jihad and the expulsion of the occupying enemy from the Muslim lands (insha’allah).
The Muslims of Iraq do not need Bush & Blair’s liberation and freedom. Rather the only way to liberate all human beings from the shackles of man-made systems, whether they are barbaric democracies or brutal dictatorships, is to implement the justice of Islam through the Khilafah system. Only then will men and women cease to be oppressed and instead be given back their rightful honour and dignity.

by we do. Thu May 13, 2004 19:02

it's just a video.

by Read the muslim crazy's post Thu May 13, 2004 20:13

And tell me how negotiation will ever work with these nutters.

BushCheney'04

4 MORE YEARS!!!

by with a little help from my friends Thu May 13, 2004 20:23

I say ! That Rummy chap must be regretting that he stabbed his old mate Saddam in the back ....... stirred up a right hornet's nest in Iraq .........

by Media Watcher Thu May 13, 2004 20:46

Good on you Avi for highlighting the latent anti-semitism lurking in the commentary about the late Nicholas Berg ......

However, the poor ill-informed dweebs whom you take to task for overlooking Mr. Berg's alleged racial (or do you mean religious ?) background have the excuse that - to the best of my knowledge - most of the initial reporting on this event by the mainstream corporate was silent on the matter of Mr. Berg being a Jew (as you allege) ....... at least speaking for myself and having perused quite a number of such accounts in the immediate aftermath of the event becoming public, I did not find any reference to Mr. Berg's allegedly Jewish origins ............ this is not to say that such references may not have been published but if they were, in my opinion they were the exception rather than the rule ........

If indeed he was of Jewish origin as you allege, then I expect that this fact received more prominent attention in the media in Eretz Israel ....

Which may explain the difference in perspective ......

So you would be better off raising the question as to why the mainstream non-Israeli media maintianed a discreet silence on this matter .......

But please allow me one small concluding remark at the risk of appearing insensitive:
If Mr. Berg really was Jewish then he was a very silly boy to be gallivanting around in Iraq under current circumstances ..... and even if he wasn't Jewish, an American civilian choosing to travel around Iraq at the present time is to say the very least living "adventurously" ........

I would call such behaviour "extremely naive" but that would be a gross understatement ....

I rest my case .......

by Terry Fri May 14, 2004 01:03

There's plenty of motive to have had a fake video produced, the primary ones being to 1) divert attention from all the tortuture pictures and associated discussion and 2) to even to go as far as justifying the tortuture by producing evidence of horrors from the other side.

Please see full text of the comment on this at:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65017&condense_comments=false#comment74635

by haasd0gg Fri May 14, 2004 05:47

I'm a father, an American, and a patriot.
The bottom line is this:
muslims hate us. There is nothing that can be said or done to make them our friends. We are seperated from them by a totally different set of values, morals, and gods.

Would anyone feel better about the prisoner abuse "scandal" if they were assured that the "abused" were responsible for shedding American blood? I would and they probably were. But Im not losing sleep over it in the meantime.

F__K the Iraqis. F__K the bleeding hearts here in the USA. Hey liberals ~ wanna make a difference in the Iraq scene? Then go there and tell them you want to help. We will add your names to the list with Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg.

Uncivilized people cannot be dealt with in a civilized fashion. Personally I think we ought to drop bombs until either they are extinct or we run out of ammo.

PS~ Allah can kiss my pale white Christian ASS!!!

by GodSquadDetector Fri May 14, 2004 08:54

I'm also a father, an American, and a patriot.

YOU - you are a cretin. Even our President has accused the abusers of being "unamerican". Clearly, you are unamerican too and have no sense of history. If you don't like the US why don't you leave and go and live in a theocracy (or Texas).

If your life can be summed up as bumper sticker slogans, you need a lot more help than having your ass kissed my christian friend...

by avi H. Fri May 14, 2004 09:33

The mainstream media outside the Hebrew-language press in Israel has ignored the probable anti-Semitic nature of Nick Berg's brutal murder. Only the BBC carried a very brief illusion to his Jewish origins See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3707735.stm.

This was also the case with Daniel Pearl's murder, who was forced to 'confess' his ethnicity (i.e. he had to say, 'I am a Jew and my parents are Jews') before being murdered.

There is a real problem with the reporting of anti-semitism. For example, there are a number of vicious anti-Semitic sites hosted in the UK. Nothing is done about them even if complaints are made to the Internet Watch Foundation, the police or the CRE over there. Take:
www.islamicawakening.com
which has articles like 'Why Jews are treacherous'.

This is what we are facing with Arab terrorism. The mainstream media refuses to report the full extent of gross anti-Semitism in the Arab/muslim world or at all. Why should it be alright that Saudi Arabia, for example, requires foreign visitors to sign a statement on arrival certifying that they are not Jewish and that it is ILLEGAL to be a Jew in that country. Anti-Semitism when it does come up is said to be marginal in Arab/muslim countries, when in fact it is part of the mainstream culture. (just look at the Egpytian goverment-controlled media). Even when the EU commissioned a report on the upsurge in anti-Semitism in Europe, it doctored its findings to state that mainly white youths were responsible, when in fact it concluded that young muslim youth were principally to blame.

Hell, I have even had my own postings on this site removed, evidently because the editors found their Jewish perspective uncomfortable.

by kokomero Fri May 14, 2004 10:43

According to Avi the entire problem with Arab/Muslim terrorism is all down to anti-semitism. This is a very interesting theory Avi but all the "evidence" you provide for it wouldn't fill the side of a cereal packet.

It looks rather like a crude Zionist attempt to mirror Jewish conspiracy theories and blood-libels by cashing in on anti-Muslim hysteria post-911.

As for Nick Berg, it would appear (from the lack of blood) that he was already dead when he was decapitated, and that the fact that he was ethnically Jewish was a great deal less important than the fact that he was profiting from the occupation of Iraq.

Some have gone so far as to suggest that he was the victim of targeting by right-wing elements close to the US military who posted his name on a forum frequented by those elements. It would also appear that posters to the same forum indicated that they would make life very difficult for him in Iraq, given his fathers strong anti-war stance.

Given the obvious depravity of the US military in Iraq who can exclude the possibility that Nick Berg was the victim of a staged assassination paid for by the US intelligence community (the supposed involvement of al-Zarqawi is just a little too obvious and they're even backtracking on that now), aimed at rehabilitating the Bush oil-junta, after all it was a little too convenient in terms of timing?

by Derek - American Fri May 14, 2004 11:09

Did you get those pictures from an abortion clinic? Is a German trying to tell me about atrocities against humanity? Give me a break.

by avi H. Fri May 14, 2004 11:47

yes, clearly, the holocaust, the Stalinist pogroms and the public hangings of Jews in Iraq and elsewhere and the driving of nearly a million Jews out of their homes in Arab countries was crude Zionist attempt to mirror Jewish conspiracy theories and blood-libels.

by Stephen Daedalus Fri May 14, 2004 12:08

The SWP are considering joining Al Queda to win their members to a Socialist Programme. Richard Boyd Barrett said "Yes, we're going to join Al-Queda", he continued "There are hundreds of radical muslims in Al Queda that are anti-imperialist, I'm sure we can sell papers and recruit in Al Queda". When asked about the actions of the Al Queda in hitting the Twin Towers and beheading the US civilian Mr. Boyd Barrett said "The SWP are totally opposed to that" he added "the grassroots membership of Al Queda need to get rid of the rotten Bin Laden leadership and adopt socialist policies"

by kokomero Fri May 14, 2004 13:44

Where is your evidence that the entire problem with Arab/Muslim terrorism is all down to anti-semitism? If you cannot produce evidence to support your claim you should withdraw it as it is tantamount to incitement to hatred!

by avi H. Fri May 14, 2004 15:13

You want evidence of widespread anti-Semitism in the Arab/muslim world?

Go to:

http://www.memri.org/video/index.html

http://www.memri.org/cartoons/

Plenty of stuff there.

by vendredi Fri May 14, 2004 15:31

shalom, but you must also balance your thing. Please give our readers, which as you know is the highest trans-Atlantic daily readership of a news-site links to information on widespread anti-Semitism in the USA and it's satelite powers and agents worldwide.

Do your thing Avi.

by dimanche Fri May 14, 2004 15:43

has mobilised a demonstration against anti-Semitism in France.
It's spokesperson Roger Cuikeman is interviewed in today's left wing daily Libération, makes good reading.
Israel as I do tell you, is Europe's son.
But the YankeeDixieNazi empire dragon ate it.
Just like in Revelations.
You know we've all seen the Movies.

"Les juifs sont les sentinelles de la République et des valeurs de la République. Nous sommes à l'avant-garde", a-t-il déclaré sur RTL. "Quand on s'attaque aux juifs, peu de temps après on s'attaque à la liberté, à la démocratie".

=The jews are the sentries of the Republic, and the values of the Republic. We are the avant-garde, when they attack jews, but shortly after they attack Liberty and Democracy.
http://www.libe.com/page.php?Article=205762

Historically France's jews belonged to the monolithic French Communist Party of the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s. Less French Jews went to Israel than any other European country that had seen more than 200,000 lost to the camps. And there were many others that lost more than 200,000.
Today, the national monument of France to the Holocaust is to be found with the heart, mind and soul of France on that special island of Notre Dame. It's a curious place, it occupies the corner of the island, whence as Beckett I believe observed, the river appears to flow the wrong way, and if you goto Paris (europe) not Paris (texas) someday, go there.
BTW there is no Holocaust memorial in either Paris or Dublin Texas.
bizarre no?

by A real American Fri May 14, 2004 18:11

I just have a few questions for you people. Why are you in a free country that allows you internet access to post your dispicable comments (freedom of speech) when you defend communist and terrorist run governments? Why don't YOU live in a country that terrorizes women for being women? Why don't YOU live in a country where the act of beheading another human is an accepted act based on your religion(and why aren't you the innocent civilian victim)? Why do YOU get to have your say when Iraqi's are being killed daily? Oh, and by the way, that was being carried out long before a U.S. or British occupation. Have you forgotten about Hussein already? What about Hitler? Khan? Napolean? Should I go on? Why do you have a blind eye towards the rest of the world? Why is it that the U.S. is blamed for the hardships other country's go through? Sanctions? Why do we have to provide for the rest of the world?
We don't have to. But we do it anyway. Why should we risk the lives of our children to defend YOU? We don't have to. But we do it anyway. You could go on and on and on about all the Iraqi children we've "killed?". But by doing that you're defending the real killer. You're blind eye at work. You are brainwashed by the media, by your schools(that US taxpayers are paying for, if you live here and receive student loans ), by your parents, who believe it or not don't know everything, and by politicians who will say anything to you as long as you vote for them. Be a human before "speaking your mind" once in awhile. Yeah, you have the right to say what you want, just as i'm doing. But don't forget why you're able to do that. Because Americans and our allies fought and bled and died for you're freedom. Only a thoughtless sub-human would actually praise what happened to Nick Berg. Look at his picture. Was he a killer? No, he was a 26 year old guy who, regardless of whether he had the "chance" to leave or not, was helping to rebuild a country that was so badly torn apart from wars dating back thousands of years and risking his own life in the process. If he deserved it then so do you. When you badmouth America, just imagine a terrorist over your shoulder ready to decapitate you for not believing in what he/she does. This message is too long already but I could go on forever. Even though you'll insist that America is always in the wrong. I hope for your sake that if there is a god he forgives you for your distorted views on the value of life(that goes for any supporters of war, terror, etc.) Finally, there are no bigger racists on earth than you. YOU hate the human race. Racism eminates from you. You don't need to look towrds the West to find it

by iosaf - a real European. Fri May 14, 2004 18:36

stranger I leave...

We are different.
We died by the hundred millions
over "your century".

this charming yiddish poem inspired many included amongst them one Müller the libretist for Schubert's Winter-reise.

by Shabalabadingdong Fri May 14, 2004 19:45

You, my friend, are a narrow minded idiot. Torture? Why are all Iraqis skinny? Because thier beloved Saddam didn't feed them. Don't blame the US for your loser ways. The scumbags you're defending beat, rape(men and women), torture, kill, and worst of all, speak in tongues with that annoying shit blabbing out of thier mouths somehow translating it into how great god is while slicing someones throat like it was deli meat. What was done in that Iraqi prison was no different than Marine hazing, a frat initiation, or at the very worst, Navy Seal hell week. You saw tortue in those pictures? Please!!!! Come to America and walk through the projects in some of our major cities and you'll see torture. That's why we shouldn't be anywhere else in the world helping out any of you losers and your shit countries. It's funny, you're sitting at a computer in a cozy little apartment while your fellow muslims are fighting for a cause that some idiot like yourself is brainwashing them into believing. They are victims also. You are the culprit. They have no education so you and your jackass comrades(who would slice your throat just as easily as Berg's) can strap bombs to them and send them off to die. And lucky for them there is no age or gender requirement. You run an equal oppurtunity suicide bomber business. And they die a quick non-torturous death to boot. Wow, that's satisfaction, what a lifestyle. Why would you work to create a civilization with technology, jobs, freedom, and I know this one will blow you away, you ready? Running water!!!!! And before you insult American women, why don't you unwrap one of your skanks and throw her in a tub with some whale fat ( that's soap you stinky prick). Oh, I think I hear a muslim chick. I thought they weren't aloud to talk. You may want to chop her head off or burn her alive. She actually opened her mouth. The nerve of her. Where's the kerosene? All you need is a match to light off of your crusty teeth and you're set. A muslim barbeque. At least in your pro-terrorist mind anyway. I just wanted to mention that your scaley skinned feet look real good in those brown sandals that you've been wearing since grade school. I said school, something Iraqis don't know about. But you do, right? i'm starting to sense that you've enjoyed all the emenities most muslims are oppressed into not enjoying by none other than............other muslims!!!!! I think we have a winner.....The guy with the big yapper, yeah the guy over there , no not the one in that war torn country. Over there!!!! No, the one that doesn't even live in the middle east. The one that has friends in America who hate it but won't leave. The guy who enjoys freedom but blasts the free world. Did I say we have a winner? My bad, I meant a certified low-life loser. Congrats dickhead - you're 80 lb. soaking wet ass just one an all inclusive (jobs, govt loans, welfare etc.) shoe-bomb flight to that dreaded hell-hole that will let you speak your mind, allow you to become a lawyer or doctor all paid for by taxpayers(not you), let you own things, and even let you buy food and take a bath even if it's only once a month( your choice-and i'm giving you credit)....close your ears.....Yes, AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know what? Better yet, just go back in time to let's say 1979, and move to Iraq....So when, or more likely if, you made it to 2004 you can tell us how the last 25 years have been. Have a nice trip....loser

by Still a real American Fri May 14, 2004 20:14

What? You proved my point. I expressed "my own" opinions. You present something un-original and unexplained that you unfolded from you back pocket for all I know. Free world = free speech. You can do it, I know you can. Use your own mind to form an opinion, especially if it's for what you believe in. A poem written in Arabic from another decade, century, millenium, or whatever just doesn't mean a thing to me. It's 2004 not 500 A.D. It doesn't convince me of anything that would lend you or your cause my support whatsoever. Sorry. With that, you have the right to post what you want.

by Terry Fri May 14, 2004 20:32

As increasing reports cast further doubts on the Nick Berg beheading video, it seems like the whole thing was done to create a diversion from coverage given to the tortuture of prisoners.

Many of the medical aspects of the beheading don't make sense. For example cutting major blood vessels like that on a live person would mean the blood would initially squirt up to 2 or 3 feet. There is surprisingly little in the video. It's possible he was already dead in advance of the video.

But there are many other strange occurrences about the whole thing, including the timing, the fact that Berg and his father and father's firm were listed as enemies by a right -wing group. The fact that the pentagon denied he was ever prisoner, but evidence has since surfaced that he was and so on.

For a link to some of the reports now surfacing see:
PsyOps Creating A Diversion
http://www.rense.com/general52/psyy.htm

98% Chance That This is a Military-Industrial Complex Psyop
http://www.infowars.com/print/iraq/berg_obvious.htm?type=topNews&storyID=5133783

Could N. Berg's execution be fake?
http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/397/12790_Berg.html

by Lynn Caster Fri May 14, 2004 20:39 casterdd at yahoo dot com P.O.Box 6109 Boise, Idaho United States 206-338-5202

I have noticed that some of you here on this board believe that all Americans are the 'sheeple' that our Government believes us to be.
This is not the case!
Please trust me in the fact that there are many Americans that do not believe what the media and the White House choose to force feed us. We are smart enough to have compared data used by 'Al Qaida' in the past and the current video on Nick Berg.
My father always taught me about 'track records', or that a person always behaves in the same manner.... 'Al Qaida' (sp) does not hide. Al Qaida always researches their target.
The body of Nick Berg was found on Saturday May 8, 2004 by US Troops, and yet the video released has a signed statement dated May 11, 2004. How can that be?? Unless our fearless leaders believe that we are all senseless stupid beings, being led by our 'fearless?' leaders.
Please know that there are many thousands of Americans that do not buy into the propoganda issued from the White House and Mr. Blair.
I am of Irish descent, 3/4 Irish, and suppose that under the American Patriot Act could be silenced for having a voice simply due to the fact of my heritage. Since it seems that Mr Blair and Mr. Bush seem to have such close ties.
That will not silence me!
Isn't it a shame that the Iraqi people traded Sadaam Hussein (Husseinni worked with Hitler) with Mr. Bush, Cheney and Halliburton. When will they be able to rule themselves again? Or is it prophesied that Babylon will never again hold power by the peopleor a benevolent dictator?
I do have an understanding of the whole situation and find it shameful. Power begets corruption begets sin. Hasn't it always!
I would love to share notes with someone that has witnessed the Nick Berg video. Let's unravel the mystery together. Shall we.

by iosaf Sat May 15, 2004 14:32

it is a poem in Yiddish,
which is the ancestral language of Central European Jewry.
It is not arabic.
I could leave you a poem in Arabic as well.
Today I have left links to Arabic culture.
That's coz my knowledge of both Hebraic and Arabic cultures have helped form my opinions and inform the counsel I offer.

You are a very sad lot, you ·real americans·

That poem was written in the rennaisance period of Europe's History, it was printed with the development of the printing press in Central Europe, it inspired both librettists and composers in the German 19th century, and passed in multiple cultural expressions to the camps of Europe in the 1930s and 1940s and then it's language became the cornerstone of modern Israeli Hebrew in the most impressive linguistic renaissance ever in the 1950s and now it sits on an irish based trans-national site dedicated to explaining the causes of War in the 21st century. It's very presence a proof of Judaism in Europe's Culture. They are "our people". Sharon is not "our" man.

& This is how "civilisation" works.

If you could understand the difference between Hebrew and Arabic, you would be more useful to your own security as well as ours. But you are so typical of the arrogant, culturally rootless North American Hegamony.

So here's what you should do:-
Work in Levant Research, help Europe understand our neighbours and ethnic minority that suffered the Holocaust enjoy the same levels of Rights, Prosperity, Liberty, Fraternity, Equality and Tranquility as we do.

"do your bit"

This will mean unfortuanately leaving the USA, like many thousands have already.
Becuase in these areas of geo-political importance the USA does not lead the way but rather creates impediments on a weekly basis.

as for helping unravel the "Berg" mystery,
- don't even go there.

Let the media that presented such divisive manipulation solve that Homeland puzzle.
It concerns us little here, on the "Frontline".

Why don't you worry about Fidel?
You know how to pronounce his name,
and you probably have a Gloria Esterfan CD at home.

Just leave OUR NEIGHBOURS to us.
& leave our History to us too.

by righteous pragmatist Mon May 17, 2004 12:07

I've been watching the comments to the article I posted on this website over the past few days and it has served to merely reinforce my prejudices against the left.

You have absolutely no concept of human decency or moral objectivity.

Even the father of Nick Berg sold his own son out for the opportunity of a crazed left wing rant!

Al-Zaraqawi hacked off the head of Berg's OWN son - for all the world to see and he BLAMES Bush!

This is the cancer at the centre of Left wing thinking which threatens our civilisation almost in equal measure to radical Islam.

When the wood cutter heard the screams of Little Red Riding Hood he came running with his hatchet and split that Big Bad Wolf right open and pulled her and her grandmother out his stomach.

If she was a left winger she would chide the wood cutter for causing ecological damage to the forest depleting the population of deer and therefore being responsible for the actions of the evil creature that almost digested herself and her grandmother!

by Joe Thursday - thinking humans Mon May 17, 2004 15:24 biteme at home dot com

When finished with the Islamo-Terrorists, perhaps we should set our sights on the Left. Just think: A world free of socio-weinies, commies, anarchists and other insects!
"What a wonderful world it would be!"......

by Time to Invade! - Crusades Mon May 17, 2004 15:31

It's time to bring back the Crusades!! 1000 years ago, the West stuffed the Islamic genie into the toilet of the middle east. This toilet held its' human waste for the next 1000 years. This was done by kicking the Islamos out of the West, then taking the fight to their "homeland".
Let's do it all over again, and be happy and safe for another 1000 years.
-OR-
We could REALLY over-react...and have to drill through green glass for oil.

by reader Mon May 17, 2004 16:39

Thank God my grandfather had the sense to leave Kilkenny, Ireland and come to the United States in 1913... Because he knew that Ireland was nothing but a loser country and would never, never rise above the stupid, foolishness of their stupid, stupid religious war and inability to make it on her own without the help of Englad, he made the right decision to leave his native homeland.

This decision was solidified during WWII when the stupid Irish made a pact with Hilter & Germany, because they on their own could not pull themselves up by their bootstrap and take control of their situation with England.

And now today, Ireland continues to go down the path of destruction, much like the countries in the Middle East with their stupid religious war.

Irishman who live in glass houses shouldn't through rocks....


Edward Fennelly, III.

by Ray Mon May 17, 2004 16:43

Yeah, but be fair - Morty Hilter and Judy Germany were the only people who could save Ireland from the flesh-eating Martian invaders.
You are posting from Earth X, aren't you?

by Pamela Mon May 17, 2004 16:57

Its people like you that give US citizens a bad name; fueling the stereotype that we are irredeemably thick, proud of our ignorance and infantile dupes who can only see the world in simplistic terms of 'winners and losers'.

Pity your Grandpa, having made the decision to leave Ireland, in a moment of weakness (one assumes) chose to breed.

by Northern Eye Mon May 17, 2004 17:36

your granda didn't decide to leave a year earlier that 1913 and he could have took sail on the good ship Titanic

by ~ Mon May 17, 2004 22:04

that we deal with them still.
it's like imagine you're squating somewhere, without electricity, without running water, you haven't had shoes _ever_, you've got a really bad problem with the local _authorities_ especially since they're not really _local_ and some of your squatmates fuck off.
Then a generation later you've done a bit of work on the essential repairs, the authorities are just a little bit better (but not enough) and then the ex-squatmates kids tell you what you did wrong.
That is the essence of Irish Americans.
and Jewish Americans. and all the "our grnadparents fucked off and got out" Americans.
= They left.
now fuck off!

by i Tue May 18, 2004 00:06

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the USA is currently under the rule of a 'Born-Again Christian' who is waging a 'Crusade' in the Middle East. Yet we have 'reader' above accusing Ireland of engaging in a religious war?
As for his gran'pappy leaving, well if he was going to go on and have such stupid offspring, who engage in incoherent rants about a place they have never been to, then Kilkenny is now a much better place than it was before the gran'pappy left. In fact, leaving may have been the best thing he ever did for the place.

by rotel - private Wed May 19, 2004 13:47 viking_129 at hotmail dot com rgfsdwere 2352352352354

I think thats it is ok ,us out of iraq.
They have absolutley nothing to do there.
They support isreal blindley, that means they are killers too.
And there is a prize to pay for that.
The video shows what the prize is.
Brutal behavior is answerd with brutal behavior.

by American Liberal in Texas - none Wed May 19, 2004 19:04

Iraq is not our country. We have no right of God to rule this world. Fact of the matter is if we would quit kicking the world like it was some sort of dog then they would quit biting our feet. The murder of Nick was barbaric and wrong. The murder of innocent Iraqis is just as wrong. American conservatives were not as outraged by the picture of the dead Iraqi POW on ice as they were with the beheading of Nick. That is because the American people were made aware that Nick has a Mom and a Dad and we humanized him. The Iraqi prisoners at Abu Gharib were faceless... they were "Them" and we forget theat they are our sons and daughters as well.
War is nothing more than a sign of inhumanity. We (Christians and Muslims) fail our Gods by our constant failure of coexistance with each other. Until America learns to fix it's own problems (Economy, Education, Corporate Corruption, .....) we should stay out of trying to "fix" the rest of the world. That just goes to show exactly why we shouldn't be able to police the world. We abuse the power that we have. We are not freedom fighters we are school yard bullies. And when the littel guy fights back we yell "Not fair!!".
I am an American. I am also proud of that statement. When I think of America I think of my family, my friends, and my community. I am, however, ashamed of the current American Government. I am embarassed about the way the world views us. I know that we are supposed to be the good guys, but I can easily see how we are taken for bad.

by The Crackler - Nation Of Ulysses Wed May 19, 2004 21:43

Bush supporters think that the Berg story is being ignored in favor of more damning prison abuse stories that hurt the Bush administration. Actually I think Bush wants the Berg story to go away just as it did. Most likely Berg was murdered by anyone but Muslims. Berg was on a bus in Oklahoma with a terrorist who used his computer. You think this is a concidence?

No paper trail to Berg's private company? There are so many things bogus about this case.

by Nina Sen Fri May 21, 2004 02:17 cmariewu at hotmail dot com 202-4157-654

Nick Berg's death is a tragedy but in number and scale no where as close as the tragedy that America has wrought in Iraq. First by aiding and abetting the rise of Saddam; then by financing and encouraging the war with Iran which killed hundreds of thousands of men and then worst of all - the first gulf war and sanctions which killed half a million children. The American gvt deliberately targeted civilian facilities and poisoned the water supply, prevented medicine from being brought in, just as theycontinue to do in this criminal war where they destroy entire towns, shoot at hospitals and then work themselves up in righteous frenzy when Arabs and Muslim extremists pay them back in kind. Think back - when has there been a time when Americans were not in some one else's country bombing and destroying lives and environment? From Vietnam to South America - there's always a reason for Americans to be killing others for some high moral purpose. If you stopped interfering everywhere you wouldn't earn the wrath of others. No one hates your values or freedom or prosperity as you claim. How come terrorists aren't going after the Swiss or the New Zealanders who are also pretty free and rich? Americans and Israelis are targets because their policies are dangerous, lawless, and murderous and they are conducting an illegal and racist ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from their own land. But I guess thats par for the course for America which is founded on ethnic cleansing. Read some history my friends and travel and see the truth instead of sitting in your brainwashed FOX holes while you pull the world behind you into disasters of your own making. You are not worse or better than most others in the world. Arabs and others don't have to be any better than they are - it's their country and their business how they live there. Whatever you do there is always unjustified because you're committing an international heist and killing outside legally and morally defensible war is murder.
600 civilians - mostly women and children were slaughtered at Fallujah - that's only one incident in one month of one year out of the last fifteen years of American war on Iraqis.

Everyday innocent people are killed by soldiers who are always just doing their duty. The torture photos shown are only the tip. There are numerous accounts of outright murder of innocents quite beyond the barbarous whole sale bombing and sniping that's going on. Of course you don't care about those photos - only the one where a white man gets killed. Try looking at the cases of MURDER at your prison camp or the babies with theri heads blown away or the cluster bomb wounds - day after day - ten thousand civilian deaths in just this year . And don't forget Afghanistan and don't forget the previosu war and the sanctions and Palestine and Lebanon...it goes on - Israel has made its policy and American policy to the Arabs one and the same. AND DON'T FORGET YOU HAVE NO LEGAL REASON TO BE IN IRAQ
Nick Berg - if he was a contractor- was a war profiteer - so think about that.
Put yourself in Iraqi shoes. 150,000 Arabs show up in the U.S - the've just bombed out NY and Washington. They've killed your children - filled the environment with depleted uranium, stolen your assets, encouraged prisoners to loot or destroy the Smithsonian while they stood by or cheered, raped or humiliated your sisters and brothers - vilifed your religion, and then they claim they did it for your good and come over to make a profit too. Wonder if you wouldn't take to a little violence especially if you were completely outgunned on a battlefield.

by Anti-left Fri May 21, 2004 09:36

So I guess that all these soldiers in prison are innocent. Its not like they ever killed/tortured a person.

Its not like they don't support their countrymen in Fallujah who killed 4 innocent, unarmed US citizens. No. It is wrong to say that these people are barbaric. Even after they mutilated these innocent men, and celebrated with sh*t eating grins...

Even after they hacked off Nick Bergs head, and sent his decapitated body back to his family.

After 9/11 when many celebrated in the streets to the deaths of 2800 innocent Americans.

I mean, we are so horrible. America is so damn barbaric. When will we learn to not humiliate prisoners?

Why don't we just give the freaking country to Iraq already, give them back Saddam to mass execute Shiite muslims again, gang rape women unconcious in a prison now occupied by the US, and let him torture and kill his own citizens' children to make them give him answers to whatever for whatever reason?

So I guess, that after seeing all this "civilized" torture and treatment from these people, I mean, it is completely wrong to be disgusted and want some sort of reform, and feel vengeful.

Honestly sir... whoever you are... if anyone is anti-american, look at yourself first. I am a young person, and I don't want any future leaders or decisions of older, brainwashed, flaming liberal, anti-americans that have to be politically correct and polite to/ignore evils and terrorists to ruin my future in this country, offering my freedom to these American hating beasts.

Do you want to see who these people are? Watch the news. Try to not watched biased liberal news... watch video footage of what these people do after killing americans, or whichever innocent people. Watch them celebrate, and hell, celebrate with them, since that is the viewpoint I am percieving of many liberals.

Why don't we just blame America.






"The day America cedes it's defenses to a foreign power, is the day we cease to be a sovereign nation."

by Ali Mc Fri May 21, 2004 13:50

According to one former high-ranking American intelligence official, who asked not to be named, the FBI came to the conclusion at the end of its investigation that the five Israelis arrested in New Jersey last September were conducting a Mossad surveillance mission and that their employer, Urban Moving Systems of Weehawken, N.J., served as a front.

After their arrest, the men were held in detention for two-and-a-half months and were deported at the end of November, officially for visa violations.

However, a counterintelligence investigation by the FBI concluded that at least two of them were in fact Mossad operatives, according to the former American official, who said he was regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials.

"The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it," he said. "The conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs but that they could leave because they did not know anything about 9/11."

However, he added, the bureau was "very irritated because it was a case of so-called unilateral espionage, meaning they didn't know about it."

Spokesmen for the FBI, the Justice Department and the Immigration and Naturalization Service refused to discuss the case. Israeli officials flatly dismissed the allegations as untrue.

However, the former American official said that after American authorities confronted Jerusalem on the issue at the end of last year, the Israeli government acknowledged the operation and apologized for not coordinating it with Washington.

The five men — Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari and Yaron Shmuel — were arrested eight hours after the attacks by the Bergen County, N.J., police while driving in an Urban Moving Systems van. The police acted on an FBI alert after the men allegedly were seen celebrating while watching the events from the roof of their warehouse and the roof of their van.

In addition to their strange behavior and their Middle Eastern looks, the suspicions were compounded when a box cutter and $4,000 in cash were found in the van. Moreover, one man carried two passports and another had fresh pictures of the men standing with the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center in the background.

by American Liberal in Texas Fri May 21, 2004 20:50

It seems to me that this is not a war of America versus Iraq. This is a war of the Christian right wing versus the Religeous extremeists of the middle east. If both sides would listen to their "Left, pinko, hippy, liberal, peace loving.. blah blah.." there would be no war. Nick Berg would be alive, The towers would still be there, there would be no abu gahrib, there would be no US soldiers lost in this foreign war, and our economy wouldn't be in the turmoil this is in. If right wing Americans are looking for something or someone to blame they should blame their beloved Bush and his failed foreign policy.

The fact of the matter is that we cannot decide to invade another country and then call civilians who get attacked over there innocent. We cannot paint people barbaric for fighting off invasion. The "Right" in America has to quit putting this spin on things to justify our agressive actions. In America we refer to military spending as "Defense Spending" and the "Department of Defense"... if that is the case how do we ever justify offensive or "preemptive" initiatives. I know the spin that Bush placed on this was multifaceted, but the reasons he had were quickly dismissed:

Weapons of mass destruction -- Not found...
Evil dictator (Rape and torture) -- Not valid enough.. there are way worse than him in the world and we havent gone after them. Plus, if that was the case America would have been involved with the genocides in Rowanda, but we didn't help out at all. (After all Rawanda isn't on an oil field.)
Making the Middle east safe -- B.S. If we cared about middle east safety we would quit backing Israel.
IRAQ and 9/11 -- If that were the case then we would have to go after Saudi Arabia first since the funding for Al Quaida (sp) was mostly from Saudi money. Iraq was weakened, an easy target, sits on a formitable oil supply, not willing to be manipulated by American government, and easily "spinnable" as an enemy.

Basically the right can wave the American flag and whistle their "Yankee Doodle Dandys" and paint us lefties as Unpatriotic. But the way I see it is when you send someones sons and daughters off to die unjustly in a foreign war that is not related to the defense of our nation then that is the most unpatriotic thing you can do. Nick Berg's family has been treated unpatriotically by this country. Not because his sons death was dismissed, but because he died senselessly. My heart goes out to him for losing his son. I know if it were mine I would be angry as hell. I also know that he joins a long list of fathers and mothers suffering from loss in this war.

The only thinkg I can advise for the "Right" in America is to just use your head. Think! Think about why we are there. Think about why they are fighting back. Think about the over all cost. Oh... and quit listening to the conservative media.....

by An American Sat Jun 19, 2004 01:01

I hope any Irishman who feels that Nick Berg's death was justified because of America's involvement in Iraq has the honor of having his children killed by an IRA terrorist. If you can't understand America's moral imperative to do the right thing in fighting terrorism, then I hope one of your own murderous thugs blows your family up. Perhaps then you'll stop being armchair philosophers and neutral cowards, get off of your drunken asses, and fight the good fight. Until you have the stones to do that, you need to shut the fuck up and let us save civilization as we have some many times before. Thank God for the Irish that emigrated to America and helped build this great nation; their contributions will never be forgotten. As for the rest of you- you're nothing but leftover table scraps, worthy only to be fed to the dogs.

by ec Sat Jun 19, 2004 01:04

- feeding people to the dogs

by Pamela Sat Jun 19, 2004 18:15

You let your country down with such an idiotic rant against the Irish. Such a strange conception of Peace Love and Understanding - 'Im gonna free all you suckers, liberate your sorry foreign asses and assist in developing inclusive democratic political structures within a pluralistic society, AND ANYBODY GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT I WILL BLOW YOUR FUCKING BRAINS OUT!'

Innovative approach to foreign relations, it must be acknowledged.

by Lindsey Sat Jun 19, 2004 18:29

Please don't imagine this comedy site is representative of Irish views. We in Ireland are fully supportive and appreciative of America's fight and great sacrifice to defend civilisation.

God Bless America, Land of the Free!!

by Pamela Sat Jun 19, 2004 18:42

Lets keep chanting the mantra, eyes glazed, rocking gently...'land of the free...home of the brave...amber waves...o say can you see..land of the brave and the free...fair and balanced...home of the land of the brave and the free...by the dawn's early light

...and then Jesse's voice drifts in 'keep hope alive...keep hope alive'...and then the ghostly voice trailing through the ether, from the Lincoln memorial, resigned now, not triumphant...'thank god almighty, Im free at last'.

Four legs good two legs bad (remember that, now, sheepies)

by Hidalgo Sat Jun 19, 2004 20:51

What point are you trying to make?

by Grasshopper Sat Jun 19, 2004 23:43

Yeh thats right, thats why the majority of Irish people opposed the war, and a hundred thousand marched against it.

*mocking laughter*

by Lindsey Mon Jun 21, 2004 02:47

I don't remember a vote on the matter. Where did you get your "majority" from?

Word on the street is that 2 of every 3 Irish people are supportive of Bush.

by nordie Tue Jun 22, 2004 16:40

An opinion poll for Sky News Ireland entitled 'President Bush: Do you support his visit to Ireland?' recorded the following result:

Yes: 15%

No: 85%

by Lindsey Tue Jun 22, 2004 16:48

That's not exactly a definitive settlement of the matter. You may as well be relying on "anectdotal evidence".

by nordie Tue Jun 22, 2004 17:00

From Eircom.net:

An opinion poll suggests that two-thirds of Irish residents are opposed to the visit of US President George W Bush to Ireland at the end of June.

The poll carried out for the Irish Examiner and RTE's Prime Time programme found that 67 per cent of those polled in the East constituency were against the visit.

Only 19 per cent were in favour of the visit while 14 per cent said they had no opinion. The poll was carried out on Tuesday and Wednesday this week in the European Parliament East constituency on a sample of 500 people by Lansdowne Market Research.

Mr Bush will be in Ireland for only 12 hours on the night of June 25th and the early morning of the 26th for a US-EU summit. He is to stay in Dromoland Castle. The summit will be chaired by Taoiseach Mr Ahern as president of the EU Council.

by Tommy - NA Sun Aug 21, 2005 07:25 Guvnor2 at yahoo dot com

I've done a bit of research on our old friend Edward Fennelly, III, His Grandfather was deported for raping a sheep in 1913