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Interested in maladministration. Estd. 2005

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Human Rights in Ireland
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Labour has appointed Becky Francis, an intersectional feminist, to rewrite the national curriculum, which it will then force all schools to teach. Prepare for even more woke claptrap to be shoehorned into the classroom.
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Alcoholism: Busting the AA Monopoly

category international | consumer issues | opinion/analysis author Thursday October 13, 2005 15:10author by "John" Report this post to the editors

Is there really only one true faith?

Alcoholism is a bad thing, right? Anybody who makes any attempt to eradicate it deserves our gratitude and encouragement. Well, that’s not the story at all, as it turns out. There is only one way to do it and it’s the Alcoholics Anonymous way. At least according to AA themselves, that is. Theirs is the only thing that works and they are 100% infallible in what they say and do. Jesus Christ had more self-doubt than the AA.

This article is written by an alcoholic, a person who progressed from a glass or two of wine with the evening meal to a minimum of one bottle a night. Holding it at just the one bottle is something of an achievement, in fact. At this rate, I’m not long for this world. This is a shocking state of affairs for a parent of two suffering children in what should be the prime of his life, as a husband whose partner is at her wits end and as a member of the community in which my participation is unreliable and self-centred. I am failing significantly on all three counts because of this problem. More than that, I am a burden to everyone who knows me. But the demon has gotten hold of me and, along with many other alcoholics, I seem utterly powerless over this situation. I alternate between a remorseful and hung-over drunk in the morning and a blithe, carefree ‘it’s-only- a- drink- and- it- makes- me- feel-so-nice why- shouldn’t-I’ evening tippler. This is the remorseful me speaking. Anyway, that’s the personal history over with, just so you know where I’m coming from and that I’m not monkeying around with this subject. Do I want to do something about all this? Is the Pope Catholic?

And here is the crux of the problem that I bring to you. Alcoholics Anonymous and its 12-step system simply doesn’t work. Not for the vast majority of drunks who go to them for help.

Let’s understand one thing, before we continue though: AA didn’t make me or any other alcoholic become alcoholic and they have many things to say about alcoholism and alcoholics which are painfully true to confront at times. Whatever is said below, their literature is worth reading if you are a drunk.

But for many people, fact is, they make the situation a lot worse. Here is a statistic that non-alcoholics may not be aware of: AA doesn’t work for 80% of the people who try them out. And that’s AA’s own figure – other people say the figure is as high as 95/98%. If this was a drug we were talking about, it wouldn’t even get off the ground. But the exact opposite has happened where AA are concerned and they have grown to a worldwide organisation of 2,076935 transient members in 105,294 groups. The number of alcoholics around the world far exceeds that and many of us are floundering; desperate to get this compulsion under control. And in a country where alcoholism has practically become our way of life, this situation needs urgent reassessment. Ireland, the home of the alcoholic. ‘Give me two drinks bar-tender, one for me and one for the road.’

So how does something which is so unsuccessful become so well-established? AA has insinuated its way into the hearts and minds of every profession, that’s how. From judges in court recommending treatment ‘programmes’ for offenders, to marriage guidance counsellors looking at red-faced, bleary-eyed men and women, AA are the automatic port of call wherever the alcoholism problem raises its head. Some of these professionals will be members of AA themselves of course.

I am writing under an assumed identity and everyone knows about the fabled anonymity of the AA. A cast iron secret never, ever to be shared with anyone or even discussed outside of group meetings. Members however are free to associate in certain ways and there is actually something very sinister about this aspect of AA. There are networks of AA members everywhere that most people are not aware of. The influence which AA members have is unknown and unkowable unless someone breaks ranks. When you consider the true success rate of the AA programme against its pheonomenal power and influence as an organisation, it seems logical to at least ask how the latter was really achieved.

According to the AA, recovery is restricted to those who are ‘emotionally capable’. And that it seems is only between 2-20% of the millions of ‘the stream of despair, illness, misery and death’ who pass through AA each year. AA have the explanation for their lack of success neatly sewn up: it is not, it turns out, your physical disposition that is responsible after all, when it comes to recovery, it is the fault of the alcoholic themselves.

This is a pretty neat psychological trick to be playing on vulnerable people. You are first of all taught to excoriate yourself, reduce yourself to an object of utter humiliation and virtual self-loathing. Nothing that has ever gone wrong in your life is ever the fault of anyone or anything else but you - the whole sorry, god-awful mess is down to you alone. Any idea that well, yes, you’ve been an awful shit a good bit of the time but maybe you were a victim yourself occasionally will be immediately stamped on as evidence of your lack of ‘emotional stability’. There are no other bad people in the world - except other alcoholics. You must do ‘a fearless and searching moral inventory’ to ascertain the full extent of your awfulness. Your poor, unsuspecting friends and family will, subsequently, be confronted and generally embarrassed by apologies for incidents and accidents that may have taken place 20 years earlier. And when you have stripped away every vestige of self-respect you are then ready to replace your mental faculties with the contents of ‘The Book’ – the AA bible. AA have a lot of neat psychological tricks, since I am on the subject. ‘Analysis paralysis’ is a term they use to describe those who are struggling with questions that AA don’t seem to be able to answer. Thinking is to be discouraged. Your intelligence is redefined as supidity and unpleasantness in the AA world.

The AA philosophy is full of contradictions and paradoxes like these. When you try to talk to one of the long-term members, you are basically talking to ‘The Book’. Virtually everything they say to you will be a quote from it: maxims and bon-mots with a cutesy-clever ring to them that divert you from your question and throw you back, always and ever, on the idea that it is not the answer that you need to worry about but that you shouldn’t actually be asking the question in the first place. A lot of people commit suicide. AA reserves its bitterest contempt for those people – so that even this evidence of the organisations failure amounts, in the wholly self-serving AA logic, only to proof of the person’s disgusting state of emotional incapability.

But alcoholism is an addiction, right? So how can the above be true at the same time? It is high time that responsible state bodies or others who are in a position to do it, looked very carefully at the suicide rates among former AA members. This is not a benign organisation for many people – in fact for most of us who come into contact with them, they do nothing but make you feel a whole lot worse and a lot less able to deal with the drinking. The idea that you are a piece of dirt, really, takes hold and where once you felt at least some optimism about making the attempt, now you feel so awful about yourself that you wont even try for fear of failing and the renewed and increased sense of self-loathing that goes with it. We need to start prising the deeply embedded claws of the AA out of the body politic and put them back in the corner where they rightly belong. At the very least let’s know them for what they really are: an organisation with a negligible track record of actually curing alcoholism. (Cutesy AA response to which is ‘there is no cure’! You need to stay with us for life!)

Something is wrong here, surely? At AA meetings you will meet a representative sample of the general population: cleaners, pub owners, doctors, teachers, wives, college students – everybody is there. One thing that strikes you after a while is how much intelligence there is in evidence. Alcoholism is a condition that forces you to cut to the chase, to get your brain fully onto the job in hand. There is no room for stupidity when dealing with it and there are very few displays of emotional incapability at those meetings, in reality. Our stories are horrendous in almost every case and the atmosphere is one of intense, quiet remorse.

This drinker would like to know how much money is spent on researching alcoholism? Curious that we don’t seem to have much information about how alcohol acts on us to create this dependency. Call me paranoid (and I admit I’ve got a hangover) but isn’t there a massive alcohol industry out there which is making billions of dollars of profit out of this misery every day? What percentage of that profit is made from alcoholics? Most of it, probably. The industry is adamant there is no harm in drinking modestly. But alcohol is an addictive substance, just like cigarettes, or heroin and we don’t advise that it’s OK to have a little of what you fancy where they are concerned. There is one well-known alternative therapist who says that basically, we are all alcoholics to the extent that we drink at all. It is only a question of degree. Everyone who drinks is involved. We’ve made alcohol so central to our lives – from birth until death literally - that unless we do a radical rethink the problem is in danger of undermining our society. On any given day the number of people out there who are affected mentally and physically to a greater or lesser extent by alcohol is huge and this must be having an enormous impact on our society, not just in terms of the typical drunk but of more subtle things that are not attributed to it at all. Even three glasses of wine will impair the judgment of the drinker the next day.

For all these reasons we need to look much harder at ways and means of tackling this problem once and for all. A tough and objective analysis is needed where AA are concerned. If it works for a few people, fair enough. But let’s stop this lunacy of pretending that it is the only solution or that is even a good one.

The AA website:
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/
Updated websiite http://www.aa.org/

AA Success Rates (by the AA)
http://www.voai.org/Success%20Rate.htm

 #   Title   Author   Date 
   Ná cáin an eagras     Duine    Thu Oct 13, 2005 16:19 
   decendent of two wonderful but drunken grandparents     Shannon    Thu Oct 13, 2005 17:56 
   AA     micheailin    Thu Oct 13, 2005 19:47 
   A.A. HMMM     its a cult but    Thu Oct 13, 2005 19:51 
   I recommend replacement therapy.     belch gurggle yawn ribbid    Thu Oct 13, 2005 22:14 
   Just give the damn stuff up     Celeste    Thu Oct 13, 2005 23:52 
   alchies versus so-called normal people     mary    Fri Oct 14, 2005 00:20 
   AA     cod    Fri Oct 14, 2005 15:24 
   Not the point     "John"    Fri Oct 14, 2005 17:23 
 10   Experiences     Rylian    Sat Oct 15, 2005 01:23 
 11   AA     cod    Sat Oct 15, 2005 04:12 
 12   Unanswered questions     "John"    Sat Oct 15, 2005 13:57 
 13   AA     cod    Sat Oct 15, 2005 14:33 
 14   ooops     cod    Sat Oct 15, 2005 14:49 
 15   You proove everything I say     "John"    Sat Oct 15, 2005 15:03 
 16   misunderstood me...     cod    Sat Oct 15, 2005 15:12 
 17   Well     "John"    Sat Oct 15, 2005 15:51 
 18   Another teenager dead     "John"    Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:37 
 19   it works!.....if u work it!!     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:09 
 20   furthermore....     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:24 
 21   john, heres an answer     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:32 
 22   The Book     "John"    Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:37 
 23   and more.....     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:55 
 24   opinions     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 13:13 
 25   opinions     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 13:13 
 26   Reply to Recovered Alcoholic     "John"    Mon Oct 17, 2005 13:14 
 27   answer     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 13:55 
 28   Not again     "John"    Mon Oct 17, 2005 15:30 
 29   FFS     cod    Mon Oct 17, 2005 15:41 
 30   so no-one has tried the smack replacement therapy yet?     belch    Mon Oct 17, 2005 15:56 
 31   really?     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 16:03 
 32   Cod-ology     "John"    Mon Oct 17, 2005 16:13 
 33   come on john     recovered alcoholic    Mon Oct 17, 2005 16:31 
 34   Trying to identify me?     "John"    Mon Oct 17, 2005 17:46 
 35   Tradition 3     Bill F.    Mon Oct 17, 2005 19:30 
 36   Bill F     "John"    Mon Oct 17, 2005 20:13 
 37   The areas of alcoholics brains that they appear to need alcohol to get to     pushing it    Mon Oct 17, 2005 21:21 
 38   AA     Rick    Tue Oct 18, 2005 15:29 
 39   Alternatives     Bill F.    Tue Oct 18, 2005 15:42 
 40   Be honest about it...     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 16:29 
 41   Rick - Re Non AA Groups     "John"    Tue Oct 18, 2005 18:04 
 42   Actually!     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 18:24 
 43   oh and also     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 18:35 
 44   More Abuse     "John"    Tue Oct 18, 2005 18:47 
 45   so john     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 18:51 
 46   Duh!     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 18:56 
 47   the latest irish study     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 19:03 
 48   Alcoholics at AA     "John"    Tue Oct 18, 2005 19:10 
 49   More humour on this thread would be welcome!     "John"    Tue Oct 18, 2005 19:52 
 50   scammers     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 20:02 
 51   cut n paste     recovered alcoholic    Tue Oct 18, 2005 20:10 
 52   So what?     "John"    Tue Oct 18, 2005 20:20 
 53   WTF?!?     scrilla22    Wed Oct 19, 2005 03:10 
 54   lol     scrilla    Wed Oct 19, 2005 03:13 
 55   An Analysis of AA     James Jamerson    Wed Oct 19, 2005 03:47 
 56   scrilla     recovered alcoholic    Wed Oct 19, 2005 08:00 
 57   scrilla     recovered alcoholic    Wed Oct 19, 2005 08:01 
 58   AA not a business!!!     Fergus    Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:26 
 59   AA Does Harm     Rusty    Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:21 
 60   Thanks to James Jamerson     "John"    Wed Oct 19, 2005 13:01 
 61   Priorities     Larry M.    Wed Oct 19, 2005 15:23 
 62   More personal abuse from the AA people     "John"    Wed Oct 19, 2005 15:55 
 63   Hello     Gerard    Wed Oct 19, 2005 19:29 
 64   Do I really have to say this again Gerard?     "John"    Wed Oct 19, 2005 19:41 
 65   Dear John     impartial observer    Wed Oct 19, 2005 22:28 
 66   Yet more personal abuse!     "John"    Wed Oct 19, 2005 23:51 
 67   explain business     scrilla    Thu Oct 20, 2005 00:02 
 68   answers and questions     impartial observer    Thu Oct 20, 2005 00:08 
 69   Some google facts...     impartial observer    Thu Oct 20, 2005 00:36 
 70   no apparent claim of infallibility!     impartial observer    Thu Oct 20, 2005 00:40 
 71   free download of this apparently controversial book.     googlemania    Thu Oct 20, 2005 00:49 
 72   Great - AA are not infallible!     "John"    Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:00 
 73   your answer?     impartial observer    Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:26 
 74   More informations     Detlef Sax    Thu Oct 20, 2005 13:25 
 75   Thanks Detlef     "John"    Thu Oct 20, 2005 14:05 
 76   you made a claim john     impartial observer    Thu Oct 20, 2005 14:55 
 77   actually...     impartial observer    Thu Oct 20, 2005 18:20 
 78   actually,     impartial observer    Thu Oct 20, 2005 18:23 
 79   yes a definite crank.     observer2    Thu Oct 20, 2005 18:26 
 80   Come on     Declan    Thu Oct 20, 2005 18:43 
 81   perhaps     solomon    Thu Oct 20, 2005 19:08 
 82   This is not aa, this is indymedia.     observer2    Thu Oct 20, 2005 19:37 
 83   Anarchist alcoholics!!!!!!     observer2    Thu Oct 20, 2005 19:47 
 84   Solomon     "John"    Thu Oct 20, 2005 19:49 
 85   John recommends the commercial opposition!     observer2    Thu Oct 20, 2005 19:59 
 86   the alternative...     observer2    Thu Oct 20, 2005 20:03 
 87   That is a completely false accusation     "John"    Thu Oct 20, 2005 20:35 
 88   still refusing     observer2    Thu Oct 20, 2005 21:02 
 89   Puzzled     Declan    Thu Oct 20, 2005 21:28 
 90   apparently they have     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 01:52 
 91   silkworth     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 03:02 
 92   Silkworth?     Declan    Fri Oct 21, 2005 05:00 
 93   You asked for evidence     "John"    Fri Oct 21, 2005 07:53 
 94   Alcoholics Anonymous Donations Policy     Bill F.    Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:34 
 95   Thanks John     Ray Smith    Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:51 
 96   next chapter     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:56 
 97   Actually Mr Smith     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:03 
 98   Official Policy     "John"    Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:24 
 99   ireland?     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:35 
 100   support your comment about me.     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:40 
 101   editors     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:49 
 102   'John'     cod    Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:51 
 103   cod     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 13:03 
 104   free download     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 13:23 
 105   AA and money and stuff     cod    Fri Oct 21, 2005 15:20 
 106   Response to Impartial observer     Rusty    Fri Oct 21, 2005 15:58 
 107   Rusty     cod    Fri Oct 21, 2005 16:12 
 108   rusty     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 17:42 
 109   Increasingly frustrated     Declan    Fri Oct 21, 2005 18:14 
 110   the real question "Does AA Work?"     Paul W    Fri Oct 21, 2005 18:22 
 111   I agree.     RIAC    Fri Oct 21, 2005 18:35 
 112   Can we have some substantiation please?     Chekov    Fri Oct 21, 2005 18:57 
 113   facts and figures     Paul W.    Fri Oct 21, 2005 19:02 
 114   acceptable?     Paul W    Fri Oct 21, 2005 19:11 
 115   now prove it works     Paul W.    Fri Oct 21, 2005 19:25 
 116   Oh dear     Chekov    Fri Oct 21, 2005 19:45 
 117   there you go again     Paul W    Fri Oct 21, 2005 20:14 
 118   declan et al     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 21:50 
 119   The evidence is there     Declan    Fri Oct 21, 2005 22:20 
 120   wtf?!?     scrilla22    Fri Oct 21, 2005 22:33 
 121   To Impartial observer     Rusty    Fri Oct 21, 2005 22:44 
 122   AA education     Paul W    Fri Oct 21, 2005 22:52 
 123   rusty     observer2    Fri Oct 21, 2005 23:23 
 124   Proof     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 00:16 
 125   Paul     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 00:33 
 126   who is attacking?     Paul W.    Sat Oct 22, 2005 01:00 
 127   scientific research     scrilla22    Sat Oct 22, 2005 01:32 
 128   quitting drinking     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 01:56 
 129   reply to observer     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 01:57 
 130   smokescreen     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:05 
 131   just in case you don't have a book.     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:05 
 132   really!     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:11 
 133   thanks to the author     sarah    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:20 
 134   The English, Irish, Russian, German, Americam CULT     Don Lee    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:20 
 135   I just bet     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:37 
 136   big book not scientific     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:52 
 137   is it not aa?     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:57 
 138   big book quotes useless     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 03:11 
 139   study     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 03:40 
 140   AA membership     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 03:47 
 141   no     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 03:54 
 142   yes     aa member    Sat Oct 22, 2005 04:00 
 143   Observing observer 2     Declan    Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:44 
 144   declan     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:58 
 145   The full version of tradition 3!     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:09 
 146   To Observer2     Ray Smith    Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:17 
 147   5% claim     chekov    Sat Oct 22, 2005 13:10 
 148   Cults and Response to Chekov     Declan    Sat Oct 22, 2005 14:55 
 149   5% success, 95% failure     Detlef Sax    Sat Oct 22, 2005 15:25 
 150   to ray smith et al     oberver2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 16:06 
 151   oh and by the way, ray...     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 16:26 
 152   Dear observer 2     Declan    Sat Oct 22, 2005 16:28 
 153   truth     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 17:19 
 154   o.k     Declan    Sat Oct 22, 2005 17:27 
 155   the above is written by me     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 17:29 
 156   Actually paul     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 17:31 
 157   Missing the point     Becky    Sat Oct 22, 2005 17:38 
 158   Impartial?     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 18:15 
 159   at last, progress     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 18:17 
 160   open dialogue - becky     observer2    Sat Oct 22, 2005 18:30 
 161   incurable disease     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 19:09 
 162   This is surreal     declan    Sat Oct 22, 2005 19:20 
 163   another question     Paul W    Sat Oct 22, 2005 19:30 
 164   traditions     scrilla22    Sat Oct 22, 2005 21:45 
 165   scrilla22     observer2    Sun Oct 23, 2005 02:52 
 166   To O2     Ray Smith    Sun Oct 23, 2005 04:51 
 167   no monopoly     observer2    Sun Oct 23, 2005 05:05 
 168   rsmith     observer2    Sun Oct 23, 2005 06:21 
 169   so let me get this     wit    Sun Oct 23, 2005 06:24 
 170   just can't resist...     wit    Sun Oct 23, 2005 06:26 
 171   Ireland AA reform pioneers     Paul W.    Sun Oct 23, 2005 06:45 
 172   Back to basics     Bill F.    Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:51 
 173   Slowly getting there     observer2    Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:36 
 174   Scientific proof     Declan    Sun Oct 23, 2005 14:14 
 175   Notes From a Self-Empowered Sober Alcholic     Susan Gibbons    Sun Oct 23, 2005 15:19 
 176   I've found infallibility to be claimed in AA     Bobby S.    Sun Oct 23, 2005 16:38 
 177   SOS     LH    Sun Oct 23, 2005 16:45 
 178   Response to I've found infallibility to be claimed in AA     Rusty    Sun Oct 23, 2005 17:57 
 179   simple     scrilla22    Sun Oct 23, 2005 19:06 
 180   Figures     LH    Sun Oct 23, 2005 21:17 
 181   Many groups, web sites and books are critical of AA. Why are so many forming?     Duaine M    Sun Oct 23, 2005 21:34 
 182   Response to LH     Susan Gibbons    Sun Oct 23, 2005 22:04 
 183   Declan     observer2    Sun Oct 23, 2005 23:02 
 184   Response to LH     Duaine M    Sun Oct 23, 2005 23:03 
 185   Response to LH     Duaine M    Sun Oct 23, 2005 23:14 
 186   spirit of enquiry: response to O2     Declan    Mon Oct 24, 2005 02:17 
 187   I answered your question     Becky    Mon Oct 24, 2005 02:34 
 188   infalliability     Paul W.    Mon Oct 24, 2005 03:34 
 189   To Ob2 - again     Ray Smith    Mon Oct 24, 2005 09:02 
 190   Here is an illustration of an irish alcoholic.     responsive    Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:36 
 191   No the irish aren't the most dangerous people in the world     Donald Lee    Mon Oct 24, 2005 15:00 
 192   the one true faith.     hiccup    Mon Oct 24, 2005 15:02 
 193   Medical Diagnosis     Rusty    Mon Oct 24, 2005 15:43 
 194   Declan     observer2    Mon Oct 24, 2005 20:43 
 195   At last     Becky    Mon Oct 24, 2005 21:25 
 196   Fellowship is the programme     Becky    Mon Oct 24, 2005 21:34 
 197   becky     observer2    Mon Oct 24, 2005 22:03 
 198   Fair enough     Declan    Mon Oct 24, 2005 22:52 
 199   AA literature     Paul W.    Mon Oct 24, 2005 22:52 
 200   AA literature     Duaine M    Tue Oct 25, 2005 00:45 
 201   problems with pros     scrilla22    Tue Oct 25, 2005 04:10 
 202   AAs internal docs?!!     scrilla22    Wed Oct 26, 2005 01:17 
 203   AA & Suicide     Ray Smith    Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:14 
 204   To BillW@aa.com     Arlene S.    Wed Oct 26, 2005 23:03 
 205   reply to observer 2     Arlene S.    Thu Oct 27, 2005 05:39 
 206   observer2 to declan     ArleneS627    Thu Oct 27, 2005 06:20 
 207   To Duaine     Susan Gibbons    Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:07 
 208   Two million less not drunk each day     Bill F    Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:53 
 209   AA is no rose     Declan    Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:44 
 210   What are some of the damages done by AA..,     B.C.    Wed Nov 02, 2005 05:20 
 211   Recovered Alcoholics     Antara    Wed Nov 02, 2005 17:25 
 212   Same old, Same old...,     B.C.    Thu Nov 03, 2005 04:17 
 213   Different Approach!     out them!    Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:12 
 214   "Outside Help"     Bill F.    Thu Nov 03, 2005 14:25 
 215   On AA     Vincent    Thu Nov 03, 2005 17:22 
 216   AA is no rose     Arlene S.    Thu Nov 10, 2005 23:36 
 217   The effects of AA on my relationship     SHarris    Sat Nov 12, 2005 03:09 
 218   vinny babay!     gonzo    Sat Nov 12, 2005 04:05 
 219   an interesting article about AA     jimbob    Sun Nov 20, 2005 05:45 
 220   AA's sweet sweet deal     Joekay    Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:28 
 221   try al-anon     doublewinner    Fri Nov 25, 2005 06:50 
 222   Myth or Truth?     Marie Victim of ALCOHOLISM    Mon Jan 02, 2006 21:46 
 223   john, here's an answer     Arlene S.    Tue Jan 03, 2006 02:24 
 224   Reading the Big Book     Arlene S.    Tue Jan 03, 2006 02:48 
 225   Horror Stories of AA     Arlene S.    Tue Jan 03, 2006 03:05 
 226   RE: AA HMMM     Mairtin    Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:30 
 227   Spiritual, not religious?     Ray Smith    Wed Jan 25, 2006 09:04 
 228   familiar     wheredileavemepint    Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:14 
 229   AA works in illusion only     mack    Sat Mar 18, 2006 17:45 
 230   The real issue is Step One: ego deflation in depth     leejosepho    Fri Apr 07, 2006 05:16 
 231   it's just an avenue toward salvation     blaise    Fri Apr 07, 2006 15:45 
 232   AA without sponsorship?     janie    Sat Jul 01, 2006 07:14 
 233   therapist     john gillen    Tue Oct 03, 2006 22:36 
 234   Success Rate     Newton Heath    Sun Apr 08, 2007 18:52 
 235   So pleased that people are speaking out!     AndyM    Sat Aug 04, 2007 17:20 
 236   Review of books about AA     "John"    Thu Jan 10, 2008 21:15 
 237   It works for many     White wine sipper    Fri Jan 11, 2008 05:31 
 238   leave John alone     karen    Sat Mar 29, 2008 00:51 
 239   Well said     W    Sat Mar 29, 2008 05:28 
 240   other organisations     Pablo    Sat Mar 29, 2008 06:44 
 241   A true obsession of the Mind...     Serenetee    Sun Oct 26, 2008 16:50 
 242   Great Thread     Its all Yin Yang Baby!    Fri Nov 21, 2008 02:05 
 243   Answers     Bob L    Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:24 
 244   Alcoholism is not a disease, it's an addiction to a substance, much like smoking.     M'eh    Fri May 06, 2011 16:11 


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