It's confirmed : Israel is using White Phosphorus and cluster bombs against Lebanese civilians.

by St. Barbara Thu Jul 27, 2006 01:19

from the article; -"Nabatiya is the city in Southern Lebanon, which where it is suspected that this white phosphorus has been used and where it was confirmed by the Minister of the Interior"

-My question is this, How can it be Suspected & Confirmed at the same time? It either did or did not happen, there can be no quibbling over that. Strictly speaking the Lebanese Need to have Unequivical Proof (such as residue of WP, or shell fragments from the casings). Since the Lebanese Government still alledgedly "Control's" the area shelled, they should be able to provide shell fragments from the casing and the Fuzes will still be intact(anyone who's ever had to do a Crater Analysis Know's of what I speak).

by PaddyK Thu Jul 27, 2006 03:38

My question is this. Why must we wait to find a family totally incinerated , then peal off their skin and send it to a lab so that some student can confirn that this deadly phosphorous shit is being dropped on villages in Lebanon.
I'm no scientist, but I can confirm that the Israeli army are bombing families and their essential social infrastructure. Thousands of people are going to die in the coming weeks due to the fact that they cant get water or food , they cant get to hospital ; if they do, then the hospital cant get water and food and people are already dying there.
Old people , handicapped people. Their services are destroyed.
What about the usual 10-15000 operations a year that a state of that size must conduct in order to maintain the general health of its people? They Cant be done.
Israel has ensured years of suffering in Lebanon already. America has backed it and confirmed that no ceasefire will be endorsed .
America has told Israel that it is OK to continue to destroy Lebanese people and the social infrastructure and agreed to continue to provide the weapons so that, additional to the direct kills, they have ensured thousands more deaths among the aged and sick Lebanese population.
There seems to be no civilised constraint on America and Israel.
White phosphorus? What difference is that supposed to make? What we have is a massive international crime against humanity.

Message to conscientious solicitors : do your job - start prosecuting these law breakers.

If it is legal to protect people by destroying belligerent weaponry - as proven by pitstop ploughshares - then somehow, it must be illegal to produce and export and use it.

by St. Barbara Thu Jul 27, 2006 04:40

Excellent Obfuscation, now back to answering the question, shall we?

What proof is there of WP use by the Israeli's against Civilian's? DPICM , I'm sure is being used.The Picture of an Artillery shell is not an WP shell (I knew that , who else?)

Now when Paddy K wrote this; -"Why must we wait to find a family totally incinerated , then peal off their skin and send it to a lab so that some student can confirn that this deadly phosphorous shit is being dropped on villages in Lebanon." -The response is thus; If you want EVIDENCE to use in the Hague , or for world credibility You make sure you get the evidence. You do Not have to even touch the dead to gather such EVIDENCE, something even a third rate journalist would know. WP leaves a distinct residue easily collected & tested. it has a very specific smell, look, color to it. Fuzes on shells Never destruct, they "shoot" off the casing, shell fragments tell the type , country of origin, filling, etc.

You show appalling lack of Compassion for innocent civilians killed with Your statements here.

by St. Barbarous Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:26

the white phosphorous bombs are a Lebiwood production, just like the 4 UN observers murdered by the IDF are a Uniwood production etc. etc.

by PaddyK Thu Jul 27, 2006 13:12

"The Picture of an Artillery shell is not an WP shell (I knew that , who else?) "

Well, bully for you Barbie. But The presence of a shell or fragments of a shell are not going to constitute evidence anywhere in the near future. The use of WP in Fallujah by America is not disputed , "shaking and Baking" the Ragheads there was well documented with an abundance of sickening photos. Yet it has not led to any war crimes tribunals or prosecutions. It certainly has not stopped the slaughter in Iraq.
If you think that the key to stopping the Lebanon massacre is getting absolute proof that Israel is using this shit to directly target civilians then off you go and get the photos.

Meanwhille, there is abundant evidence available on the TV in your living room that Israel is in flagrant violation of numerous international laws with it's targetting of civilian infrastructure, Its murder of UN personnel, its indiscriminate use of weapons in siutations where civilians are likely to be victims, its collective punishment excercises.
Such crimes have been going on in Palestine before Israel attacked Lebanon. Yet, even with these flagrant humans rights violation being broadcasted right into your living room so that any third rate Coronation Street fan could document them , we have yet to see a single tribunal opened to commence prosecution procedures.
No, in fact we have the luminaries of the world's greatest democracy condoning them and urging Israel to further prosecute these illegal measures against the people of Lebanon and Palestine.

Why arent the Legal Eagles of the Arab Community in Europe and America taking suit after suit against the perpetrators of these crimes - Israeli officials. There should be ten an hour being complied against them. Sooner or later one must stick you would think.
Perhaps not if this is anything to go by.

Atrocity against a terrified 13 year old girl in Rafah:

"At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body."

The criminal soldier defended himself by saying :

"he would have killed her even if she was three years old."

His punishment after trial:

"Captain R, a Givati Brigade soldier in the IDF, would be awarded 80,000 NIS [over $15,000 USD] in compensation from the State of Israel in addition to reimbursement for NIS 2,000 of legal expenses, as part of an arrangement reached between his lawyers and the military prosecution after being acquitted of all five counts against him related to the killing of Iman!"

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4801.shtml

Obfuscation, Dear ? Letters on casings? Residue ? Yeh. Elementary, My Dear Barbara.

by St. Barbara Thu Jul 27, 2006 17:25

Continue to Obfuscate, it just shows your appalling lack of compassion for the dead, & lack of clinical ability to make sure these claims are true.

I remember reading of stories of the "Boche" or "Hun" impaling infants in Belgium on their bayonets during the First World War- it was greatly published as fact, when as we know it was simply Propaganda to de-humanize the Germans.

As for Yank's using it (WP) in Fallujah, that is not germaine to this claim. If you obviously want both Condemnation of Israel & tribunals, you need PROOF, dear man. Irrefutable, undeniable Proof. DPICM munitions are used, there is proof of that. If you are so blind as to believe everything You hear without being Objective, you've no business in Judging anything.

by iraqpaddyface Thu Jul 27, 2006 21:12

I was just wondering if it were at all possiable to get anykind of inspection teams to any area in south leb for anything .dodgeing laser guided bombs 155mm shells and assosted naval muinitions....early days yet

by PaddyK Fri Jul 28, 2006 00:03

There is no chance in hell of ever getting a conviction against Israel for deploying WP munitions against Children and their parents.
Why ?

Because even if you did sneak into Israel, Not easy.
Sneak up to the Artillery Front, Very tricky.
Creep up behind the gunnery position, Slightly Dangerous.
Then get your piccy of the Israeli Soldier loading the weapon , showing you the precious coding letters , then pointing out where he was aiming,then actually firing and killiing the civilians.
Even if you did all this , not bloody likely, you would only be at the same position as we got to in the Fallujah massacre. I.E. "We have proof you used WP"
The Americans said yes we did use it, its not illegal, we are not signed up to any treaties not to use it and we didnt fire it at anyone. We were using it for illumination , smokescreeen for troop movements and for the purposes of psychological demoralisation.

Its Barbara that reckons the proof is crucial , but she seems to think I should be the one to go and get it.

I can already see proof of massive violations of international law. The kind of violations that would have the likes of Iran or Syria or Pakistan or any other country in the world hauled in front of our American leaders and prosecuted as rogue terrorist states. Which is what Israel is.

by "Bugs" Moran Sat Jul 29, 2006 01:17

Why were the Israeli shells painted different colours? I saw green, orange, whitish, grey, lt.green with different colour rings on them?

by St. Barbara Sat Jul 29, 2006 03:29

Yes, thats what I refer to, the shells colours indicate what type they are using. For Instance Olive Green with Yellow bands are High Explosive, not White Phosphorus

by eastern eye Sat Jul 29, 2006 09:51

What's written on the shell is:
155 mm
explosive / focused
fragmentation bomb / Against People / Against something else - couldn't see the letter. probably Against Tanks or Against People again.
type 7
M483A1

by Ali H. Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:47

8 bodies have been found in Lebanon which have strange burns on them.

Tissue has been sent for analysis to independent European laboratories.

"Bachir Cham, a Belgian-Lebanese doctor at the Southern Medical Centre in Sidon, received eight bodies after an Israeli air raid on nearby Rmeili which he said exhibited such wounds.

He has taken 24 samples from the bodies to test what killed them. He believes it is a chemical.

Cham said the bodies of some victims were "black as shoes, so they are definitely using chemical weapons. They are all black but their hair and skin is intact so they are not really burnt. It is something else."

"If you burnt someone with petrol their hair would burn and their skin would burn down to the bone. The Israelis are 100 per cent using chemical weapons."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Israel-using-chemical-....html

by Doc Sat Jul 29, 2006 16:58

How to treat the Burns;

by Chief of Smoke Sat Jul 29, 2006 20:11

fromGlobal Security, the M483A1 DPICM shell;

by iosaf Sat Jul 29, 2006 21:38

We know that when they want to goto war they really want it - nails & hair. But what sort of democracy do they crave? We have to get beyond the flashy advertising and opinion polls, we have to get beyond the half rood of disputed field, we have to get beyond Bush & Blair's last official summit in Washington congratulating each other on Iraqi emergent democracy simply because a higher percentage of the people voted in Iraq than have ever voted in either the USA or UK.

Sure they did that in Lebanon and the occupied territories too...

Its not about democracy @ all is it? Is it about Lawrence of Arabia and the last anglo-american push to the middle east? How do readers in the far east localise Damascus or Jerusalem? Do they say "look at the mid west"? Or do they only use that phrase "mid west" when talking about the US bible belt and lamenting its ethnic and religious prejudice?

The problem with opening our eyes is what we see.

The problem with opening our eyes is what we see.

by The Boston Irish - - Sat Oct 21, 2006 21:51

The Lebanese militant group Hezbollah fired Chinese-manufactured cluster bombs into civilian areas in Israel during the conflict this summer, Human Rights Watch said yesterday.