Chavez in Iran

by si Mon Jul 31, 2006 00:19

Ah I have to laugh reading this post. I doubt anyone would find it surprising that Chavez would get a medal from Iran. Are you employed by Chavez or something. maybe you should read a bit it might make you realise that your beloved Castro and Chavez are not the great people you seem to think they are.

I could comment more or point out that Chavez is starting a arms for oil deal with North Korea, the North Korea that 3 million have died from hunger and which forces farmers to tear out their food crops and plant opium so the dear leader can fire missiles into the sea and have the highest defence spending pre GDP of any nation in the world.

by SFM Mon Jul 31, 2006 00:39

That's because North Korean is under the biggest nuclear threat of any country on earth - read your history si - then come back and talk sense.

by si Mon Jul 31, 2006 00:55

Yes keep telling your self that. Yes instead of thinking about something lets blame america. It is the easy thing to do after all.

by SFM Mon Jul 31, 2006 01:43

I wasn't telling myself that, I was telling you. Not all people talk to themselves. Please I beg you educate yourself - it is your duty as a semi-literate cognitive human being. - don’t believe stuff because it is easy - search for the truth. Best of luck si.

by iosaf Mon Jul 31, 2006 03:05

They fall into a few categories - friends & fellow contributors saying "hi!" and adding a link or opinion; those that jump up & down telling me I don't know the material or in this case thinking I love Chavez - & others who are just plain sloppy but need to tell me I'm stupid and short on booklearning -
yep I'm the translator & did go on record as calling Chavez "a caudillo" before anyone else in the english speaking world despite being left - and those who just answer on my behalf.

This time I'm surprised no-one jumped on the weak point in my introduction and pointed out I didn't slam Stalinism and understand western neo-liberal capitalism in all its guises of 1944 - 1950 be that the creation of the UN, the acceptance of Ben Gurion's independence declaration of Israel; the partition of the Indian subcontinent; Dumbarton Oaks; Marshall Aid; the creation of NATO; and SEATO; the adjustment of the Sterling Area; the partition of Germany; the creation of the central african state union and the pegging of their currencies to Sterling and the France; the foundation of the five primary international reconstruction banks; the foundation of the IMF; the invention of 3rd world debt; the invention of the term third world; the first relaible forceasts of how finite natural resource really were all the best way to fight Joe Stalin abroad.

Maybe the quality of commentator today was lower than usual, or I didn't give it enough time before replying and "taking those points one by one".

* I was surprised at the medal Iran gave Chavez. Iranians don't have many medals to offer visiting guests but they polished off something more meaningful than a set or rosary beads from the Vatican.
* I would like to see the source of the "Oil for Food" Chavez North Korea deal, really I would I'd like to compare it to the amount of 3rdworld debt owed him by his neighbours and the amount of poor US citizens he gives free fuel oil to because their country won't provide social care.
* I hate it when people say "search for the truth" it conjours up visions of baring my left knee for the umpteenth time and donning the noose and warning all to care for the blind widow's son as I on oath assure the gathered henpecked brethren that I am virtously searching the truth.


Now :-
anyone got anything serious to add? sources? links? refutals?

by Willie Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:53

" At the end titbit I want you to digest this sunday is that almost close to final
analysis- it's the Western War Machine which is the real anti-capitalist and anti-globalised force'

'cos I am reading it thus.

+ The simian at the white house has been fed a load of crap, which has
increased his eating disorder and the 'theatre' of war is a mass-manipulation
to inculcate fear and loathing-of a specifically religious nature into white western
man.

+Unsustainable economic policy and the reaping of colonial harvests
has led to civilisation failure that is being translated in terms of religious
symbology. { the players: Blair-conscience, Bush-force, Cherie-pin-up,
Benedict -symbol of constancy, Bertie- fear and loathing}

(20,000 believers climbed Croagh patrick on Reek Sunday).

+ images of the Masaccre of the innocents this morning all over the mass global
media.

+ If the 'Western war Machine' is the real anti-capitalist, anti-globalised force, then
one of the basic tenets or principles of 'protection and sustaining' a civilisation based on abuse, torture, murder and obscenity is to perpetuate it ad infinitum by
opening more fronts, by lying to its populations about how they achieve their money and feed their cars.

+ In exchange for democratic 'freedom' , the western civilian gives up democratic rights and engages in mass-denial that this war is anyhing to do with how they choose to live their lives.

+They allow US re-fueling and rendition.

+They allow their prime-ministers to sit on the fence and refuse to condemn
the beligerency which is carried out in their name to perpetuate the way of life based
on conspicuous consumption that they are accustomed to.

+ They centralise their democratic institutions on a mass-principle.

+ They use the language of egalatarianism and not the language of individual liberty.

= DENIAL.

In looking glass world: the Western war machine is going to achieve for 'western democracy' freedom from globalisation-but it will take with it many lives and cause many hurts.

=FAILURE.

The forty-eight hour cease fire due to the massacre of 37 children is a manipulation, many many children have died in GAZA due to Israeli policy (the Wall), {many more in Iraq, Afghanistan }.

= Western Complicity in WAR-CRIME is a complicity based on silence, denial and failure.

=WE ARE COMPLICIT.

by iosaf Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:34

Hugo is now in Vietnam, & by now the 53rd birthday of the 53rd president of Venezuela celebrated this year in sunny Qatar last Friday is just a memory.

Chavez left Iran yesterday with promises of new investment in Orinoco (the region not the womble).

In Vietnam Hugo will inspect the fallen USAF jet, and also discuss investment and co-operation goals before ending his lightning tour of the world in the Sub Saharan state of Mali, which is a primary recipient of Venezuelan overseas aid.

Its been quite a trip of destinations even for "the man" and he'll no doubt be happy to be reunited with wife and three daughters soon. But the stress of leadership contests must be faced with the shocking news to both chavistas and antichavistas alike that millionaire comedian Benjamín Rauseo, more familiar to venezuelans as the character he created "el conde de Guacharo = the count of the oilbird" ( itself a difficult to place pun meaning more than the bird "Steatornis caripensis" ) , the "Count" is a supposedly typical fisherman of eastern Venezuela who against the backdrop of the caribbean has charmed telly audiences with his double entendres and recently political satire causing both supporters and detractors of Chavez to giggle.
The news that he intends to punt the primary elections in less than two weeks as Hugo tours the world thus has provoked comment back home.

http://www.elpais.es/articulo/internacional/comico/inte...3/Tes

as for the "war machine" - I used the term as developed in the joint thesis of Gilles Deleuze & Felix Guattari which was published in english translation in 1986 (from the original french) 150 pages which might make heavy but certainly substantial reading.
I'd recommend it, Nomadology: The War Machine published by Semiotext(e) written by Deleuze & Guattari http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0936756098/026-23962...66239

by Duine Mon Jul 31, 2006 14:16

Tá súil ghéar agat ar chúrsaí idirnáisiúnta, a iosaif.
Maith thú!

by eeekkkk Mon Jul 31, 2006 16:32

The IDF use that book as a textbook in urban warfare.
http://www.frieze.com/feature_single.asp?f=1165

by iosaf Tue Aug 01, 2006 01:05

the link to the Venezuelan government on its new cultural and trade relations (relating to exploitation of hydrocarbon resources) with Vietnam which popular television personality and president of the Bolivarian republic Hugo Chavez - described as a "model socialist republic".
http://www.vtv.gov.ve/Economias.php?IdEconomia=1188
I suppose it had a model socialist beginning? http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69631


War does not end any one day, it carries on in memory & will only end when it is no longer taught.

Mali tomorrow.

the big metal bearded man in the background is Ho Chi Minh.

the last chopper out of 'Nam, Dr Omar Sharrif the Lebanese Syrian actor & trusted face of islam had just starred opposite Barbara Streisland in "funny lady"

by bemused Tue Aug 01, 2006 13:16

Yet again I read with bemusement the confusion of Anti-American (& increasiningly anti-semitic) comments. The basic rationale seems to be that anything supported by the US (obviously not including the continuing developments in technology that make this forum possible) is bad - therefore anybody who is against it (in any way) is good.

Thus Hizbollah & Hamas are above criticism while Chavez is elevated to near "sainthood". I await a comment on his recent visit to Belarus where he no doubt exchanged tips on best democratic principles. Would the originator of this post include the Minsk regime in his alliance to counter the pernicious evil of the US?

by Ali H. Tue Aug 01, 2006 15:09

There is no way that any democracy can behave in the way that Israel is and get away with it.

That is the fundamental difference between a democracy and a third world dictatorship.

If you want to be part of the democratic club you must play by the democratic rules.

Israel is clearly not doing this so you have come to the point where you have to decide if you're in the club or not.

Worse still Israel claims to be doing "OUR" dirty work for us.

This is not the case and must be challenged immediately otherwise we are all tarnished by Israeli and US human rights abuses.

All trade with Israel must be halted immediately and suspended until Israel comes to heel.

by Topper Tue Aug 01, 2006 15:33

As far as Hamas and Hezbullah are concerned - I've seen plenty of criticism of both organisations from people on the Left. There are some people who apply the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic, but they're in a minority. But criticising those movements from the Left doesn't mean echoing the line of Bush and Blair - Hezbullah may be ruthless and reactionary, but Israel deserves 95% of the blame for the current situation.

As far as Chavez's trip to Belarus, any left-winger I've discussed it with agrees that he's a bloody fool and a hypocrite to be joining hands with Lushenko. I don't think there's any ideological affinity between them, it's cynical realpolitik, but that's no excuse - it's the same approach to foreign policy that Tony Blair applies.

Chavez has followed two different paths in his foreign policy - on the one hand he's formed alliances with progressive movements and progressive governments (where they exist - most notably Bolivia). This is good and healthy. On the other hand, he's had dealings with anti-US regimes on the "enemy's enemy" principle (including Libya, Iran and Belarus). This is unhealthy and should be strongly criticised.

It doesn't mean, incidentally, that Chavez is bound to follow the same route as Lushenko. Nelson Mandela went to Indonesia and praised the tyrant Suharto, while the slaughter in East Timor was ongoing. It didn't meant that he intended to turn South Africa into a one-party state, but it was still a rotten, hypocritical thing to do, just as it was a rotten, hypocritical thing for Chavez to visit Minsk and ally himself with the regime there. The "realpolitik" mentality is bloody contagious, even for people who consider themselves progressive and idealistic, and it should always be criticised.

Finally, I don't think there's many people who see Chavez as "saintly" - maybe a few leftover Stalinists who like to see the world in black and white terms, but not many others. The SWP, who have often been guilty of praising groups like Hamas or Hezbullah without much criticism, brought over a former minister in the Chavez government to speak in Ireland last month about what he saw as the inadequacies of its policies since coming to power.

by iosaf Tue Aug 01, 2006 21:40

I'll just address one of those commentators above who asks me about Minsk and Bylerussia.
Sorry to redirect you .... but these articles will give you an idea of my knowledge of Bylerussia, its politics and recent events there .-
http://indymedia.ie/article/75075 this prompted Paidric to cut and paste the Bylerussian feuture page and publish it here http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75079 to which I updated hour by hour if not on indymedia ireland on other of our global sites you'll find the links in the comments.
That process of "popular revolution" backed by far right Polish interests ended with the release of "our protesters" and saw indymedia analysts align with the Kremlin, Washington, the EU and indeed Chavez in calling for their release. A special presidential decree reduced their sentances from 2 years to 2 weeks - & they all came home. I'll gladly discuss Bylerus on one if its relevant threads. & so no - I don't particularly like the Minsky regime. I don't like the Mali regime either -

which is where we're going next!

by Duine Wed Aug 02, 2006 14:02

Táim ar bís do thuairimí i leith na Máilí a léamh anois. Maith an fear.