Talking War

by Miriam Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:31

It is viewable here:

http://www.therealnews.com/web/index.php?thisdataswitch...=item

by Radiohead Thu Apr 17, 2008 02:46

The RealPlayer on my system had a critical error half way through the introductory ad, so video on RTE was out. When I clicked More Info, nothing happened. Same happened in IE and Firefox..

Redjade's audio has better sound, but the quality is terrible - i.e., it keeps skipping. The length of his hijacked audio is 1 hour 15 mins, as opposed to two hours in the original.

So, unfortuneately, no dice.

Personally, I've only heard of two people on the panel - Ciaron O'Reilly and Feargal Keane - does this really matter?

I found Mariam PC's condescention of Ciaron as having an 'interesting perspective' but he's not a woman type thing, to be patronising to women, also. It is the message that counts - if only I could hear it. I don't see much difference between the substance of Kate Adie or Feargal Keane, between Brian Farrell or Miriam O'Callaghan, between Thatcher and Reagan, Condy Rice or Colin Powell.

Re Seán's technical problems - and fair play, by the way:
I've found that on the editing programme Adobe Audition, you can Normalize or otherwise amplifyquieter sections with adding to file-size. kbps remains the same.

For events that aren't amplified, or even just street-sounds, there are two alternatives that I've found ver good.
a). Using a Panasonic clip-mike (stereo) which cost me E30 and $50 when I've bought it (twice after losing the first one). No battery needed
For voice interviews, even in the very loudest of environs, A little Sony condensor mic (takes a walkman battery) which cost about E100 -

b). Sony do a batteryless clip mike that costs about E80 and has a clip for brilliant stereo ambience and far recording, and for unidirectional.

I've all three mikes, but only names of make, not model. The thing is, going against conventional wisdom and expert advice, I find that the right cheap mike is as good as anything out there and it's more expendible should anything or anyone befall it.

by Miriam Wed Apr 16, 2008 19:09

I'm sorry that the substantive issues the debate was about seem to have been sidelined here.

We wanted to set up a deabate that was demonstrably fair and unbiased. We invited people to participate so as to ensure that would happen - i.e. that the mainstream media would have a fair and reasonable chance to describe its role, across a broad spectrum of views in reporting the war and also that those who were critical of them would have a fair and reasonable chance to say what they thought msm had got wrong.

We did our very best within that to ensure gender balance but for the main part that was not possible through no fault of ours. As Ciaron has said, this was intended as a 'media gig' primarily. I'd happily take up the issue of underrepresentation of women in news reporting but please don't confuse symptoms with causes here. That there are so few women in war/foreign news reporting is not our fault.

by Ciaron - Ploughshares/Catholic Worker Tue Apr 15, 2008 22:25

You'd hope the thread would be by people who were present, or watched it online, critiquing the debate.

The issues being about how Ireland has been lulled by the media, and other factors (like lefty opportunism and piss poor leadership in the anti-war movement) , into accepting 1 million troop movements (Irish Times) on the way to an illegal war, 1 million dead Iraqis (Lancet Report) and 4,000 dead young Americans most of whose last port of call was Shannon Airport.

The thread unfortunately has departed into the machinations of a small pc subculture. Maybe it's easier subcultural battles than the countercultural demands of sustained resistance to the war.

We have no anti-war movement to get disappointed in, we have a remnant. It's a joke that the Irish government have spent 7million euros over the last two years policing a nonexistent movement from making incursions into Shannon Airport..

Fair play to all those folks who maintain a public opposition from the monthly vigil at Shannon to the weekly presence at the GPO to the Raytheon 9 facing the music.

Why is this thread attacking me? Although mainstream women journos were approached they refused the offer to put the Irish media's case at this debate. That is not my problem. Some anonymous dweeb suggested I should have been replaced....I challenged that. And people who weren't at the debate, or bothered to watch it online ,have interpreted this as an invitation to an ass kicking party. I met a student today who was at the debate, she suggests 40% of those who attended were students of the institute from a broad variety of schools.

So yes let's start commenting on the debate "Reporting War" rather than getting lost in identity politics.

by co-ordinator Tue Apr 15, 2008 18:41

The thread is about Talking war- and only men are intelligent and savvy enough to
do so- the women afterall are in the kitchen thinking about the childer.!

why is everyone talking about Ciaron?

(again)

by disappointed Tue Apr 15, 2008 16:56

Congrats Ciaron, sounds like the debate was very worthwhile. I hate this "must have a woman regardless of how good they are" shit. The content of the contribution is much more important than the gender of the contributor. You’re right too about the middle class being uncomfortable with working class speakers.

by auntiewar Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:49

Ciaron at least is quite rational.

Some of the suggested women aren't very. (you probably know who I mean)

(Some like deirdre clancy would be excellent)

There are plenty of daft irrational men too. We don't want those either.

We just want a rational person who can speak, be they man or woman.

Ciaron did that job admirably.

The last thing the cause needs is somebody being daft in a public talk

What is most important here? tokenism or the cause itself?

by Ciaron - Ploughshares/Catholic Worker Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:44

"Maybe you should to get down off your soap box and try to listen to others .I followed the cw5 trial and noticed the women being overshadowed by yourself and Damian Moran"

You should try soapboxing, you've got to listen and there's a lot of scope for interjecting. You have to think on your feet, but that would quite you thinking at all which you fail to do this with this comment.

How could any of the defendants overshadow anyone else when we were being fully represented?
We all had our party piece testimony and that was it. The first trial collapsed after my testimony but I can hardly be blamed for that. Being fully represented was something I argued against at defendant meetings and deferred to.....I put my position, I listened, I deferred and was reluctantly represented (very unusual for plowshares community to be fully represented - at our New York B52 trial we represented ourselves)

"on trial without consulting them for instance the radio interveiw on democracy now your second or third day into trial to name one.May I add that this is not a personal attack but a statement of fact."

How do you know they or the legal team weren't consulted? This interview worked to our advantage on recross examination as it was pointed out that Bishop Gumbleton was sharing the phone booth and interview with me and we were able to point to his presence in the courtroom and outline his opposition to the war.

If you think middle class professional women are in a stronger social position than working class men with criminal records, we would have a disagreement.

There is a war on, people are being killed today by troops passing through your airport. The anti-war movement in Ireland might be long over but the war continues and is about to escalate.

Yes the Irish left is predominantly male but is also painfully middle class and timid. It ran a mile from the Ploughshares and now it is running a mile from the Raytheon 9. Being on such a panel is not some kind of award ceremony or vanity project it was an attempt to inject some activist politics into a disengaged society. Disengaged to a large part by the role of the media.

It doesn't sound you were at the event, I haven't heard any complaints by anyone who was. It doesn't sound like you've watched the debate here....go back do that and come up with some real criticism about what I said. There's not a lot I can do about my gender but if you have any relevant criticism I'll take it on board and try to amend my beliefs and behavior.

by Third class citizen Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:20

"I created most of my own gigs on a soapbox in Temple Bar) because I have been a direct actionist for 30 years"

"I don't know most of the possible alternates listed above or if they are still active against this war"

Maybe you should to get down off your soap box and try to listen to others .I followed the cw5 trial and noticed the women being overshadowed by yourself and Damian Moran .You made bad decisions while on trial without consulting them for instance the radio interveiw on democracy now your second or third day into trial to name one.May I add that this is not a personal attack but a statement of fact.

It would seem women in activism are given as little regard as elseware in this society.Sad.

by Ciaron - Ploughshares/Catholic Worker Mon Apr 14, 2008 20:13

"Both Ailbhe Smyth and Deirdre Clancy would have been excellent and could have taken the space occupied by Ciaron O'Reilly"

Thanx for volunteering my space dude. I went through the "Gentleman Jim" guidebook in Grade 7 under the Christian Brothers I think chapter 3 covered giving your seat up for a lady. Is that the point you're making here?

People who attended -panelists, organisers, audience - seemed happy with my contribution, so don't fret. Just put me down as a token member of the working class. I don't know most of the possible alternates listed above or if they are still active against this war. I guess I get these gigs (they are rare in Ireland I don't think I got many invitations in my 5 years based here....I created most of my own gigs on a soapbox in Temple Bar) because I have been a direct actionist for 30 years. This either displays incredible consistency or a lack of imagination.

When I accepted this invitation a couple of months ago, I didn't know the gender, ethnic, class make up of the panel and I didn't (and don't) care. I thought it was an RTE/media gig not an anti-war gig. I have a policy of never knocking back a speaking gig, so I took it. Unless I missed something I think it was a media gig.

by another man Mon Apr 14, 2008 19:35

Both Ailbhe Smyth and Deirdre Clancy would have been excellent and could have taken the space occupied by Ciaron O'Reilly. Dunno about Glenda Cimino, who is only known to people around the IAWM. I have no idea who Elaine O'Sullivan is - who dat?

Anyway, it's a shame that either Ailbhe or Deirdre wasn't asked but I guess it's something to note for the next time. Can't roll back time.

by Mariam Mon Apr 14, 2008 18:03

Margaretta D'Arcy, documenting anti war for years? A wealth of experience like hers should not be discounted either!

by - Mon Apr 14, 2008 17:20

Glenda Cimino- I mean there are many women in anti-war, for some reason this does not translate
into power. go compute it...

there is an anti-war movement, an independent media movement and not one woman could
be found.

Elaine O Sullivan.
Dee Clancy.
Ailbhe Smith.
Glenda Cimino.

O, lets just go on strike!

by third class citizen Mon Apr 14, 2008 14:49

Mary Kelly immediately comes to mind,

I di d not attend this event in utter disgust at the exclusion of any women on the panel.

by gender Balance Mon Apr 14, 2008 13:40

It should be the first thing in your head when creating a panel. its that simple, it is not about tokenism.

Women experience war, women report war and women resist war.

This is a lack throughout Irish activism.

many Irish women would have an opinion on how war is reported in the irish and international media.

Mary Lou Mc Donald, Ailbhe Smith, Joan Collins, (Leftish)

Mary O Rourke, Liz O Donnell, ger Kennedy (Right- and editing Irish coverages)

by Miriam Sun Apr 13, 2008 18:16

I wrote to Deirdre after she posted on the Route Irish thread to acknowledge that MediaBite had overlooked the possibility of having a woman activist.

by Mariam Sun Apr 13, 2008 18:09

Congrats to mediabite, excellent work.

Re a woman on the panel, was Deidre Clancy invited? She would have been an obvious choice on the non media panel, and has journalistic experience also. While Ciaron Reilly has an interesting perspective, it would be different and more balanced to hear DC 's experience. If she was not invited, that unfortunately proves her point ( made on Route Irish thread ) that activist women have been sidelined within the alternative media.

by Miriam Sat Apr 12, 2008 16:44

Thanks for your input on this - much appreciated. Geraldine Kennedy has never once replied to the many letters we have sent her about IT. Perhaps we should have invited her to speak but so far as Im aware she has never done any reporting from a war zone - and certainly not from Iraq.

The event was conceived as a discussion of the media by the media. For that reason we looked very hard for women war reporters and even tried the UK. There are few journalists in Ireland who have specific experience of reporting from war zones- not least because many papers no longer send reporters to cover them. Fergal Keane joked that The Independent seem to do most of their war coverage from the bar of the Shelbourne Hotel. We wanted to ensure as much as possible that the msm could not dismiss criticism on the basis that the person speaking didnt understand the reality of war reporting. We also wanted to put emphasis on the anti war campaign coverage and so invited Harry - again as a declared anti-war campaigner and experienced journalist, he has direct experience from both sides of the media fence - a combination that it's hard to find. Ciaron was the exception - with life-long experience of being written about in the media. That was the one overlooked possibility we had to invite a woman onto the panel. But Ciaron had already been invited before we had to give up on finding a woman journalist who was able to make it along. He did a superb job on the night so I find it very hard to express any regrets about having invited him.

by Seán Ryan Sat Apr 12, 2008 15:20

Yup the audio sucks. I had two problems to overcome.

The first problem was that there were no speakers in the room, it was set up to broadcast live onto the web (lots of recording equipment but no playback equipment - and I'd not thought to bring a suitable cable to hook into Joe Zefran's equipment). So my mic (a very expensive one - but crap value for money) only picked up decent volume levels from the panel.

The second problem arose when I'd compiled the audio and brought up the volume somewhat of speakers other than the panel. The result was over 80MB in size, which meant either dramatically reducing the bit rate or breaking the audio into 5 parts. I went for the bit rate reduction thinking it'd be a crime to split up such an excellent debate. I might have over done it a tad :o)

I could have hosted the audio elsewhere or even have streamed it. Indy, to me, provides a location where my audio will stay forever (fingers crossed), I wouldn't trust any other hosting site in regard to this. Maybe in times to come regular audio posters wil be allowed to post substantial sized files?

But yup, there are very few places whereby a debate of this quality would happen. I dunno whether to be proud or disgusted.

I've included a link to the video of this event above in another comment, the audio's fine in that. I look forward to the day when RTE grows enough balls to screen what is essentially their own product.

by redjade Sat Apr 12, 2008 14:23

thank you Seán Ryan for making an MP3 of the event - i wish all groups in ireland would make MP3s of their events - but to be frank, the audio sucks :-P

so I made my own recording
http://www.archive.org/details/Reporting_War-Mediabite.org
using http://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack

.. .. ..

Miriam,
The Irish Times editor is editor is Geraldine Kennedy, it is a pity you couldn't convince her to come.

But there certainly are qualified female activists who could have spoken on the non-media side of the debate.

If I have the time I hope to write up a review of the whole show - well done to all involved, including the 'other side.' Very informative and many issues where revealed that I have not seen addressed in other similar forums on this issue. Pepe Escobar was correct when he said that kind of debate would be hard to imagine even in some western european countries.

by Miriam - MediaBite Sat Apr 12, 2008 14:13

We tried very hard to have women panelists but there are very few working in war reporting and the few who are were not able to come.

by a-men Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:05

but do women in media not vouchsafe opinion on war?

PBPA seems the only group that truly does gender-balance their panels.

:-)

by Seán Ryan Fri Apr 11, 2008 22:29

RTE.ie have put up the video of this debate:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0409/newsspecial.html

by Sean Ryan Fri Apr 11, 2008 13:32

..

Dahr Jamail

by Seán Ryan Fri Apr 11, 2008 13:08

..

Ciaron O'Reilly

Harry Browne

Pepe Escobar