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The queen she came to call on us... national |
anti-war / imperialism |
opinion/analysis
 Wednesday April 20, 2011 15:31 by Take her up to Monto
 Questions surrounding visits of war criminals/ imperialist scum With the arrival dates of our 'masters' getting closer and closer are we geting closer to a more unified objection on the days of their visiting. I know there has been several discussions and a few highlighting protests about it but how are we going to give the best collective account of ourselves on the days. I just have the feeling that every body is thinking that there are 'others' working away and planning and organising 'behind the scenes'. Great if this is the case but I feel it disempowers a lot of people. There should be room for everyone to make their objection in whatever level they feel comfortable with. One sentiment I have heard bandied is that it will be just 'everyone in' like in Love Ulster' day. I really dont think the police and the authorities are going to be as caught out like that again so that is one avenue that needs to be explored more. Eirigi in fairness to them have at least committed to a time and a place for a focus point and as much as I could argue that there is a chance this could play into the hands of policing situation in regards hemming in /ketling, I do think it is a honest principled stand to make and it is giving their supporteres a rallying spot. So other than the Garden of rememberence is any of the other groups focussing on the many other spots obomba and lizzy are rumoured to surface. I am just envisioning a bit of a benny hill few days running from barrier to barrier if there arent concrete plans. I dont want groups to indulge in plans here but is their even a collective aim of what the different groups want to do. Are we better going down the spectacle of defiance route or organising alternative peace and freedom party etc. |
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Comments (33 of 33)
Jump To Comment: 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1great ideas for a royal street theatre protest here:
https://www.indymedia.ie/article/99703
article linked to is well worth reading. Its an interview with one of the guys arrested for creatively protesting at the royal wedding.
I just LOVE the idea of wheeling a big guillotine along with the protest. Its a very strong symbol and guaranteed to get some media coverage.
Yeah. The Royal.
People get Sovereignty and Royalty mixed at lot, they are confused to believe that they are the same thing.
We already established a SOVEREIGN REPUBLIC / SOVEREIGN GOVT.back in 21st January at noon in the Mansion House, not a mere democratic state. We now only have a PROVISIONAL Govt. today established in 1922 under King George v. He came in 1911....lizzy is here in 2011........coincidence?
They gotta come to collect the Census and surreptitiously attempt to claim Sovereignty over us,we the people,who ARE Sovereign.
The only problem is that not enough of us realize it. Also of the fact that english soil has now replaced the top soil in Croke park to facilitate Lizzy and the psni players.
Is that the royal We..?
Yeah. There IS no need to travel to London Town to succumb to your masters.
They are already here keeping up the good work on behalf of the Crown......in the Oireachtas set up by King George v way back in .........1922 when the PROVISIONAL Govt. was established under the Treaty
Enjoy your slavery to come..
..but I'm not convinced. I've been back-stabbed by too many Irish to elevate them above any other tribe.
And there is only ONE race. Its the human one. Ask a geneticist. There are multiple cultures. Every individual has his/her own. Mine is global. Which includes the Gaelic, but does not dismiss Shakespear because he's 'theirs'. No better critic of the madness of monarchy ever lifted a pen. From Macbeth to Hamlet and Lear, he exposed and exposes the pretensions and stupidity. Dump the bathwater, but hold on to the bambino. And the English language is most of our first tongues. Use the Gaeilge in England, you'll probably draw amusement and curiosity. Use it in Ireland and you often draw contempt.
Maybe I just had too many dodgy Irish landlords and bosses, and too many decent English and Yankee ones.
wasn't responding to you opus.
someone else was saying we should just ignore the visit which is just another way to say "roll over" and take it up the ass in my book
normalisation by the back door.
as for your preemptive bone headed comment. It is not bone headed to see worth in a shared set of values and a set of traditions that bind a tribe together. And humans are tribal creatures by nature.
It is that sense of common purpose and community that binds people together and makes it harder to impose corporate / imperialist norms on a group of people in order to exploit them.
Thats why the whole divide and conquer thing is used. Here you are doing their job for them opus. We should defend our traditions and values, keep our language and honour our heroes and resist imposed imperialist norms. If rossport was a multicultural enclave where neighbours have little in common then it would not be so easy to maintain a strong resistance to shell for example. Thats why IBEC et al are so in favour of such disastrous social dilution policies. Lower wages and less cohesion.
A little nationalism is a good thing. Every raindrop needs a kernel to form around. Every tribe needs some common roots inspiring stories, heroes and values to bind them together.
Don't be tricked into being a mouthpiece for those that would dilute what we are in order to destroy our roots and turn us into an enclave of slaves with no identity or cohesion, working for minimum wages for foreign corporations polluting the place and paying little tax while making huge profits.
Thats the endgame for a race that loses its identity. Exploitation
so I'll not apologise for being proud of my race, its culture and its heroes and stories despite all its failings. Its that which will help us stand together to resist the cynical corporate attacks on public assets, the commons, and our living standards looming just over the horizon.
You talkin ta me?
I'd pay more heed if you'd drop the nationalist 'english' this that and the other. And she aint no twat. She's among the richest rakers on the planet. they dont call the family 'the firm' for no reason. harping on the english dimension smacks of bone-headed racist nationalism, not something most people are going to support. There are a range of imperialisms without basing the critique on the geographical locus. Paddy is still his own worst enemy. Somehow nationalists never concentrate on the gombeenism that facilitates the imperial projects, whether Roman or British or yankee.
and if you have to dismiss as 'rubbish', try expanding and making a point. Insult edifies no-one. If the liklihood was that demonstrations would not degenerate into lumpen bigotry more people might just stand with you. Slan.
the best way to deal with something you strongly object to is not to ignore it but to express your objection in no uncertain terms.
The fact is whether we ignore it or not, it will still cost 8 million euro to struggling Irish citizens.
I didn't ask my government to spend badly needed public funds entertaining some upper class imperialist twat.
Also it's an insult to the families of Irish people who died at the hands of the english imperialists. There are still 5000 english troops on Irish soil. Are we allowed to put a standing army and barracks and a building housing our secret service on english soil? I sincerely doubt it.
english exchequer cynically loaned ireland 5 billion so we could use it to pay the english banks back some of their property gambling loans and convert them into soverign debt owed by Irish citizens to the crown.
Also, Isn't it interesting that the only program where we are not pounded by advertising is the coverage of the english royal wedding. Of course this does not apply to our own cultural celebrations. I guess the message from the media is that the ceremonies of our lords and masters should matter more to us
These people are not our friends. Let them keep their stupid bread and circuses forelock tugging royal sideshow away from us. We dont want it.
stay at home english imperialists
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24538
stir it through the mix
couple of ideas from the guardian merchandising dept.
Get pirating. You could always run up a T-shirt of Enda asking the missus for his ROYAL blue-shirt. That one from before the fall.
not fucking amused
mugs away...
I reckon rule NO.1 has to be take the piss.
Maybe have a ceremony to crown Dustin the turkey high king of these islands and invite a few Scottish and Welsh participants. In fact there are plenty of ENGLISH republicans would be interested if it were not approached as anti-English/British but anti-monarchy/aristocracy. Father Ted did more to deflate Irish Catholic idiocy than all the ranting atheists bundled together.
It should not be allowed to excuse narrow nationalistic reaction. That only feeds the media liggers who want to paint all opposition as backward-looking and rabid.
Rule No.2?
Remember your audience is conservative.
No use just pleasing those that already consider the gig one rung below westlife. Ya gotta wake the sleepers, not the watchmen.
Other than that, you could borrow the Puck from Kilorglan for a coronation ceremony. Maybe propose Lizzy consider dumping Phillip and splicing her dynasty to the Caprine Kingship. Your best bet is to get a tabloid hack jaded with the bullshit. Is there one left?The broadsheets will be on hymn for the chorus, po-faced and reverential as ever.
If you get all serious on this shit, you're off track already. That suits them.
Thems my sentiments.
on the subject of republican violence, i brought up dublin monaghan and you counterd with republican violence. in 100 years how many people have gone to jail for taking part in republican acts of violence, hundreds, thousands, possibly in the tens maybe an over estimation. in relation to british government violence how many have been punished? Dublin monaghan happened in this state. not co - operateing with an investigation is perverting the course of justice, the biggest mass murder in the history of this state. objecting to it is legitimate. the consequence of not objecting is to accept that britain has a monopoly of violence in all ireland. i don't concent to that.
iam not the original poster on this thread but i presume the idea wasn't to debate the morality of protest it was to discuss the how. heard during the week that the SWP are protesting. thats good does anyone have any more ideas on tatics. could political paarties organise knocking on doors in the inner city and asking people to put up black flags. is that a gooer
there is a major media offencive going on. the wedding on friday there was major sauration. can complaints be put in to the broadcasting authoity about balance. we'll have another few weeks of this. there seemed to be a bit of symbolism linking ireland with the wedding. is there a broader objective to this. possibly a recruitment drive for the british armed forces? the same armed forces that are suspected of involvement in the biggest mass murder in the history of this state. if there are people who understand how the art of public relations work could they suggest some ways to counter this propaganda.
not since Nurnberg has the like been seen. The subjects provide the bread, queeny runs the circus.
Meanwhile, back at the Hindu Kush....
I'm not any kind of fan of the Royal Family of England, but, by fuck, they know how to put on a show.
Dont worry about that little factor.
The bondholders have taken care of it. Lizzy is one.
governed ourselves? We've been managed since that treaty was force-fed at gun-point.
The game has shifted on a notch, though. Wall St and the Fed rule. Brussells is just the east office. NATO is the new gunboat. By the way, the republicans didn't initiate the conflict, whatever their crimes. Get a balance.
Well, the way we have governed ourselves, maybe recolonisation wouldn't be such a bad idea!
Ireland is a republic, but I guess your perspectives are related to the North.
Again, get over it, people are moving on.
As for bringing up the famine...how long ago was that?
Interesting that not one of you responded to my query about how you feel about the innocent people killed in the name of Irish republicanism. Well?
Irish pragmatist said:
"What is so wrong about continuing the process of
reconciliationrecolonisation?"fixed that for you!
on what basis are the garda conducting interviews with all residents along queen visit path?
sure no one is obliged to answer any questions, what with data protection rights?
what if someone doesnt want to speak to them?
what if someone wants to hang a banner from their window,
making use of anyone's right to express their opinions ?
Interesting how many times over the years we see someone who's losing an argument on here resort to the old chestnut of 'you made
a grammatical error so you can't be as clever as me'. It's the last throw of the dice when your argument collapses. Well done Opus,
winner by a knockout. (By the way, I didn't notice any of these alleged grammatical transgressions).
Some great points there lads and lassies.Keep them comin. Some really useful things to think about, i was also sure that they mooted a whole load of potential visit sites to divide and conquer. Yeah i really feel the authorities whose large effort is played out in the media would love 'the trouble makers' to be well away from Grafton st/trinity college area etc where in fact it would be easier for them to have spaces like stephens green etc where no doubt they will get a few shots of welcomers for the queen', dont know if there would be people with union jacks but definetly easier to manage them up around that neck of the woods alright.
Dont forget Guinesses has been mentioned too and they are definetly putting a concert on for her down the grand canal theatre too
Good thread Take Me Up To Monto
Upon hearing the news that the queen will visit Croke Park in May, my reaction was one of surprise and disbelief. The first thought that entered my mind was ‘’Are they f…… mad, the Queen visit Croke Park’’ For the last week or so I have been pondering about the logistics of such a visit. There is proposed plans for the queen to visit Dublin Castle, Trinity College, The Garden of Remembrance, The Phoenix Park and maybe other locations in and around the city centre of Dublin.
I’m guessing that she might be driven around some parts of the city centre of Dublin at some point as many of the locations are within a few minutes drive of each other. The two locations that has me perplexed though are Croke Park and The Garden of Remembrance I wonder how she will get there, will she be driven or taken maybe taken by helicopter ? I’m sure at some stage, the planners of this insulting visit would like to try and pass it off a popular event among Dubliners. Enda Kenny has already told David Cameron that most people in Ireland are happy with the plans for a royal visit and are looking forward to it. I’m wondering if they will attempt to drive herself through carefully selected parts of the city centre (South Side only). No doubt the media will play its part in encouraging people onto the streets in a great show of ’’Irish maturity’’ They would love nothing more than thronged streets of joyful Dubliners waving union jacks. We have already seen how the state can manipulate people in mass through the media, it happened during the Lisbon Treaty No 2.
My guess is that the visit of the queen to Croke Park is a red herring, a decoy to lure protesters away from the city centre of Dublin. To Dubliners, the mere mention of the Queen in Croke Park is like a red rag to a bull. Many Dubliners and Irish people alike will be outraged at the idea of Croke Park being used in such cynical ploy. Its very probable that many will be tempted to protest there instead of the city centre which will be much more difficult to police.
There seems to be a lot of different groups and individuals across the country who ardently oppose this up-coming royal visit. The problem we need to address is how to effectively protest in a coordinated manor. In my opinion it would be a mistake to hold any type of large protest at Croke Park. I could be wrong but I suspect that if any large body of protestors picketed outside Croke Park they might not be allowed to get back to the city centre for further protests. Might the Garda try and mimic the London police who use the tactic of ‘’kettling’’ whereby they surround groups of protesters and helm them in.
It would be a shame if there was no strategic plan or proper communication between the various groups of protesters who all agree on one thing, there should be no red carpet treatment in Ireland for the Bloody queen of England.
Its great that Erigi have come up with an early plan of protest action that will start two days before she arrives, I would like to commend them for that. I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade and shoot down the idea of a freedom camp at the Garden of Remembrance but my gut feeling about Croke Park and the Garden of Remembrance is that these two very sensitive locations might be a decoys that will lure protesters away from the likes of Dublin Castle or Trinity College. It appears to me that the authorities will try to keep the Northerners and the North Siders on the North Side of the Liffey. It is my guess that the Authorities will want to keep trouble away from the more respectable streets of the affluent South Side. The planners of the coming royal visit are not stupid people, they can pre-guess up to a point which way the day will go. Great military planners have made great military cock-ups in the past, its down to the planning. Like a game of chess each move opens up a dozen different scenarios that side step the best plans and intentions of any good strategist. Croke Park and The Garden of Remembrance are dangling carrots.
If it was my call I would hold a public gathering at the Central Bank in Dame Street. From this location we can easily march to Dublin Castle or Triniry College at a moments notice, remember, their plans are all down to timing. Don’t hand it to them on a plate. So far the authorities have already won the opening move. They have the main gathering now at the Garden of Remembrance, just the way they planned it. They can make further plans from that to add to their advantage We should think with our heads and not our hearts on this occasion, do the opposite. As tempting as it might be to rally to our places of pride and spare them from a royal soiling, we should instead rally and march on the South Side. The area I have suggested for a meeting is surrounded by plenty of back alleys and side streets that would be impossible to police effectively. These areas are normally buzzing with tourist who want to see the real Dublin. The authorities would like nothing better than to confine and hide the protesters away from inquisitive tourist eyes in the mainly working class shopping districts of the Northside. Maybe we could hold two protest, one at the Garden of Remembrance and one at the Central Bank in Dame Street. I don’t think they have any intention of driving the quare one around the Northside of Dublin City. Its would be a policing nightmare.
The main aim of the protest is to disrupt the royal visit not stand guard over symbolic sites of Nationalist importance. Disrupting the royal visit on the affluent streets of the South side would be the best defence for Irish Nationalism.
‘The UK has been a good friend to us’ Why do you call yourself Irish Pragmatist, your post could not be any further away from the principle of pragmatism. Firstly we are not a Republic. We have a republic on the island of Ireland but Ireland is not a Republic yet. Secondly we have not been Independent for almost a century, we have only partial Independence, isn’t that the crux of the problem ? Why do you talk about Independence when you seem to have this needy connection with the UK, you seem to be of the opinion that we should be grateful for something, relax mo Chara, that’s just one of the symptoms of a being victim of colonialism
‘The UK has been a good friend to us’ I have never heard anything as preposterous as that. The UK has been a good friend to itself, imperialism takes, its does not give. That’s like saying the Nazis were good to Poland because they built new roads there during Poland’s occupation, the reason why the Nazis built the roads was so they could invade Russia with better effect.
A little bit of history perhaps ?
Queen Victoria hated the Irish, that’s a fact. Some Royalist might try to camouflage this fact as it serves little for the ‘’Show Some Irish Maturity Brigade‘’. As we rush to discover more about our royal connections in light of the up-coming royal visit we keep digging up nasty little stories like the one I read yesterday. Queen Victoria donated £2,000 towards ‘’famine relief’’ during the Irish Holocaust. When the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire offered to donate £10,000, she prevailed on him to donate only £1,000 because she had sent only £2,000. She opposed Home Rule and refused to establish a royal residence in Ireland. Having being absent from Ireland for 39 years she arrived here in 1900 because she need something from the friendly Irish, new recruits for the British Army who were fighting the Boers. The Bore War came about because the UK wanted to be friends with South Africa in the same way that they were friends with Ireland, (They were really after the gold, the royal family loves gold)
Irish sculptor John Hughes was commissioned to create a statue of queen Victoria for Dubliners to admire. On the 15th of February 1908 Lord Aberdeen unveiled the statue outside Leinster House. Not Many of the citizens of Dublin were fortunate enough to have been among the invited guests. So these citizens did not get to see the statue until the following days when the seating and stands had been removed and it was possible for people to walk freely through the grounds of Leinstar House.
The reaction of the Dublin citizens was one of delighted disbelief. They believed that the completed work pictured Her Majesty as a sour looking, corpulent, (obese) almost repulsive old woman, and they Christened Hughes statue ’Ireland’s Revenge’
It stood outside on the grounds of Leinster House for years before it was removed and unceremoniously dumped in the isolated and overgrown gardens of the royal Hospital in Kilmainham in 1948, tut tut.
'the uk has been a good friend to us'.... ya especially during the famine.sound.A1.
I'm educated enough to know spelling and grammar are conventions. Check it out with someone knows a little about orthography.
As I wrote, we are a NOMINAL republic. If we ran the Island as a republic monarchs would leave their crowns in customs till they departed.
Your comment indicates its the wealth of britannia elicits your homage.
I'm not into nationalism, have british relations and friends, and have made a living there when this mismanaged island wouldn't provide, but the system we labour under is the neo-feudal british with, as Connolly said would be case, a change of flag and colour on the post-box.
Your are free to kiss her jewelled fingers, I am free to think she is anachronism spliced to anomaly. And too fucking rich for my plain tastes.
She is more than likely one of the City of London bondholders that put the ordinary people over their financial barrel while our quisling aristocracies of increasingly dynastic viceroys share her luxurious lifestyle, if not so much as they'd like.
But then you are probably so well educated you think we live in a democracy. If we did PerkieFG and Pinkie Labour would be gone already for reneging on their electoral pledges. This visit is just to remind us how little has changed, but until change does happen the really uneducated will take solace from this idiotic charade of pomp and servility. And ,yes, I have been arguing against that 'armed struggle' for fifty years. But while I was arguing I was analysing. But if I was born in Ulster I doubt I'd have had the chance to argue before I was interned. And then I might have lost my own argument against force. People take so much abuse before hitting back. Unless they are masochistic. To me this woman's rank, not her person, is an undemocratic insult, and while I cannot be bothered to object(I'm used to the servility of the Irish)I certainly she represents everything atavistic and reactionary about the current global hegemony.
But then you probably think Obama's America is a democracy, despite the evidence if you care to educate yourself. But to do that you need to extract the proboscis from the nose-bag.
Well, your poor grasp of spelling and grammar reinforces my point.
I am certainly not a loyalist. I am Irish through and through and even bear the dubious distinction of having being baptised into the Catholic Church (an institution that has wrought far more havoc on the world than the British Monarchy , but that's for another day).
Yes, we are a republic. We have been independent for almost a century so I don't see the reason to keep holding on to the past. What is so wrong about continuing the process of reconciliation?
People here have mentioned the Dublin/Monaghan bombings. Why not the same disgust at the atrocities committed in the name of Irish republicanism?
The UK has been a good friend to us. Many Irish people have made lives for themselves over there, and I am sure that they will continue to do so due to the mismanagement of this country by successive sovereign governments. Many British tourists visit Ireland while the UK remains our largest trading partner. I don't see how protests against the Queen's visit will benefit the country in any way, particularly as we could do with as much good publicity as possible at the moment.
Interesting how some people think that the visit of an old woman for a few days is an English Invasion.
Dont you mean royalist?
Oh and by the way this is still at least a nominal republic.
Even if we have been recolonised by the City of London and its international financial allies.
Ill educated? Because we think royaly and deference to bullshit aint healthy? Please educate me as to how you defend such structures as our sovreignty and independence are shredded by these global gangsters driving their resource wars of the twenty-first century.
Methinks school aint out just yet, for such misguided loyalism.
Hopefully the turnout will be negligible for any protests. The last thing we need is ill educated, regressive republicans embarrassing us.
Move on and cop on. The majority of Irish people have no problem with the Queen's visit.
Another reason the visit of Elizabrit shoulld be opposed is her shameful record of awarding "honours" to the assorted bottom feeders and scum of the planet such as the Para Bloody Sunday Commander and the chief torturer of Bahrain to name but two.
Why not just proclaim yourself rightful monarch of these islands and challenge her to a duel??
Winner takes all. Let it be known you'll be available at dawn, Phoenix Park, Furry Glen, winner takes all.
But, whatever you do, dont let HER choose the weapons. She's nuked.
Thanks for the feed back Poster, some good points, good to know im not alone in the world, i contemplated answerin me own post at one stage there,ha. Yeah I wonder were any of the community groups in the North inner city approached re black flags, cos they are usually great for gettin behind stickin the Dubs flags up durin the summer. Its somethin people could start doin close to the proposed visit sites fairly soon actually. Actually im goin to dig out any black material i have and do a few already
No need to visit the city of London....
....when the City of London can come to you.
Home at last...
there seems to be a lot of nudge nudge wink wink going on about betty's visit. think the security around her won't allow an obstruction like love ulster so personaly believe the nudge nudge wink wink is hyperbole. that means taking the spectacle of her in other means.
the shinners are going with the alternative picnic idea from what i understand. they are saying it was done in a pevious royal visit but i think they are missing the context of how it was previously done. victoria organised a picnic for dublins poor in 1903 i think so republicans organised a counter picnic.
in any senario outside there control they only have 3 options support condem or ignore. by organiseing a picnic they are choosing to ingore it. guessing because they don't want to be associated with love ulster type violence. think they are over estimateing other protesters capabilities in the face of a huge security presence. but thats where there at, no point loosing sleep over it.
To oppose it think the most likly things that can be pulled of are things that can be talked about here if people think they can obstruct it good luck if they pull it off, but other things can be organised here such as putting up black flags people hanging them from there windows, she'll be driving around the north inner city loads of opportunites for that. street plays, people dressing in rags shoeless reminicent of a famine walk with a bowl in hand was one idea i heard. if its a good idea or theres a better idea think its ok to discuss the optics of it here.
then theres what is the basis of opposition. is it anti war is it about the north is it about democracy, all are worth talking about here.
theres also Dublin monaghan. how do people deal with it. there are issues around her government refuseing to co -operate with inquiry in to that event. the families remember the day every year. would it be proper or bad taste to link the two issues. Mass Murder was committed on the streets of our capital. it happened in living memory. The case is still out standing. the head of the brit armed forces is being aforded a state visit at our expence surly its legitimate to highlight the issue.
there is an attitude that if the visit passes off with out incident this would be a sign of our maturity, this in my view is also another reason to protest. surly a sign of our maturity is a society that accepts peoples rights to disagree.
its late could go on but good thread.